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Felony charges for 2 who secretly filmed Planned Parenthood

15 Felony charges. The lying disgusting pigs should fry. MMMmmm bacon!
 
Beaudreaux said:
Legally different? That will be up to higher courts to decide. Ideologically different? Oh hell yeah.
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Yes, legally different. They are different states with different laws so unless those laws raise some sort of constitutional issue (and I do not see how they do) the case will not go any higher than state courts
 
sangha said:
Yes, legally different. They are different states with different laws so unless those laws raise some sort of constitutional issue
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That's what I meant. I understand they're different state laws. I fully anticipate an appeal to the federal court system. If the feds refuse to take the case due to jurisdiction, then that in and of itself will answer the question by a higher court.
sangha said:
(and I do not see how they do) the case will not go any higher than state courts
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Very possible. However, there is no guarantee either way at this point. I see a 1st Amendment Freedom of the Press defense, which could potentially bring this into federal territory.

Other than those two points I mention above, for the most part, I think about this in the same way you do in your post.
 
This case exposes the ugly side of liberalism in a deeply progressive state like california

These people did nothing wrong except embarrass liberals and threaten a liberal icon like planned parenthood
 
JayDubya said:
Slogans that aren't true? Like "a woman's right to choose" or "controlling your own body" or "pro-choice" or any of that total bull**** which anyone with a working brain can tell is a lie?
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No. I am referring to these idiots.

459728_870570-20140627Protesters.jpg
 
calamity said:
No. I am referring to these idiots.

459728_870570-20140627Protesters.jpg
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"Murder" is a legal term.

Every abortion involves the killing of an innocent human being and that is what the woman in your picture are saying
 
calamity said:
No. I am referring to these idiots.
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I mean they're wrong on a technicality.

On your side you have people who claim to be "pro-choice" and they're all just flat-out liars and / or idiots. :shrug:
 
JayDubya said:
I mean they're wrong on a technicality.

On your side you have people who claim to be "pro-choice" and they're all just flat-out liars and / or idiots. :shrug:
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Not as flat out wrong as those who claim to be libertarian while fighting to increase the police state.
 
calamity said:
Not as flat out wrong as those who claim to be libertarian while fighting to increase the police state.
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I mean I understand the principle of non-aggression.

Protecting humans against aggressive violence is just the bedrock nightwatchman state, not a police state, but I know you can't or won't help yourself from spewing retarded lies.
 
Mac77 said:
"Murder" is a legal term.
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TRUE. It is about the killing of a person, not a mere-animal entity. If you killed an extraterrestrial alien peacefully walking down the ramp of a flying saucer, that would be murder.

Mac77 said:
Every abortion involves the killing of an innocent
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STANDARD STUPID LIE #1. Unborn humans are 100% guilty of acting worse than parasites. They steal biological resources from the bodies of their hostesses (just like true parasites); they dump toxic biowastes into the bodies of their hostesses (just like true parasites); and they infuse addictive and mind-altering substances into the bodies of their hostesses (worse than any parasite). Anyone who calls an unborn human "innocent" is either horribly ignorant or a horrible liar.

Mac77 said:
human being
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STANDARD STUPID LIE #2. Every unborn human is 100% a human entity; it is also 0% "being", in the same sense that that extraterrestrial alien can qualify as a "being". English-speakers use/don't-use the word "being" rather consistently; no one every talks about "dog beings" or "worm beings" or "tree beings" in ordinary conversations, but phrases such as "intelligent beings", "extraterrestrial beings" and "alien beings" are occasionally used. From context it is clear the word "being" is simply a synonym for "person" --dogs and worms and trees are not persons, so that is why those phrases don't get used --but those other entities can be persons! Therefore the phrase "human being" refers ONLY to human entities that also qualify as persons --and even abortion opponents know that there exist human entities that don't qualify as persons --see your nearest "hydatidiform mole". Or white-blood cell. No abortion opponent has ever provided the slightest bit of Objectively Verifiable evidence that unborn humans qualify as "beings", persons. And therefore to call them "humans" and "human entities" is perfectly OK, but to call them "human beings" is to Stupidly LIE.

Mac77 said:
and that is what the woman in your picture are saying
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THEY EITHER DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, OR THEY ARE LYING. As explained in detail above.
 
calamity said:
I was thinking more of those standing outside planned parenthood with signs who shout idiotic slogans that most any fifth grader would know are not true.
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I stood outside a PP clinic for 15 years, calamity, as part of a peaceful, prayerful, silent protest. I never said a single word. I never once heard anybody, save the occasional "sidewalk counselor saying, "It's not too late--would you talk to me?" (and the people and their PP escorts ignored them and just kept walking), say a single word. People simply stood and prayed.

I hope you aren't simply repeating second-hand lore.
 
JayDubya said:
I mean I understand the principle of non-aggression.

Protecting humans against aggressive violence is just the bedrock nightwatchman state, not a police state, but I know you can't or won't help yourself from spewing retarded lies.
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Now, applying that to abortion is some really good bull****. But, at least I finally found out where it's being sold.

Swallowed that Kool Aide, whole. Diddenja? :lol:
 
FutureIncoming said:
TRUE. It is about the killing of a I, not a mere-animal entity. If you killed an extraterrestrial alien peacefully walking down the ramp of a flying saucer, that would be murder.


STANDARD STUPID LIE #1. Unborn humans are 100% guilty of acting worse than parasites. They steal biological resources from the bodies of their hostesses (just like true parasites); they dump toxic biowastes into the bodies of their hostesses (just like true parasites); and they infuse addictive and mind-altering substances into the bodies of their hostesses (worse than any parasite). Anyone who calls an unborn human "innocent" is either horribly ignorant or a horrible liar.


STANDARD STUPID LIE #2. Every unborn human is 100% a human entity; it is also 0% "being", in the same sense that that extraterrestrial alien can qualify as a "being". English-speakers use/don't-use the word "being" rather consistently; no one every talks about "dog beings" or "worm beings" or "tree beings" in ordinary conversations, but phrases such as "intelligent beings", "extraterrestrial beings" and "alien beings" are occasionally used. From context it is clear the word "being" is simply a synonym for "person" --dogs and worms and trees are not persons, so that is why those phrases don't get used --but those other entities can be persons! Therefore the phrase "human being" refers ONLY to human entities that also qualify as persons --and even abortion opponents know that there exist human entities that don't qualify as persons --see your nearest "hydatidiform mole". Or white-blood cell. No abortion opponent has ever provided the slightest bit of Objectively Verifiable evidence that unborn humans qualify as "beings", persons. And therefore to call them "humans" and "human entities" is perfectly OK, but to call them "human beings" is to Stupidly LIE.


THEY EITHER DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, OR THEY ARE LYING. As explained in detail above.
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All of your points are trolling of the lowest form

Unborn children are not parasites stealing from a host body

That is just crazy talk
 
nota bene said:
I stood outside a PP clinic for 15 years, calamity, as part of a peaceful, prayerful, silent protest. I never said a single word. I never once heard anybody, save the occasional "sidewalk counselor saying, "It's not too late--would you talk to me?" (and the people and their PP escorts ignored them and just kept walking), say a single word. People simply stood and prayed.

I hope you aren't simply repeating second-hand lore.
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You know, there is this thing called the Internet now. :roll:

 
FutureIncoming said:
TRUE. It is about the killing of a person, not a mere-animal entity. If you killed an extraterrestrial alien peacefully walking down the ramp of a flying saucer, that would be murder.


STANDARD STUPID LIE #1. Unborn humans are 100% guilty of acting worse than parasites. They steal biological resources from the bodies of their hostesses (just like true parasites); they dump toxic biowastes into the bodies of their hostesses (just like true parasites); and they infuse addictive and mind-altering substances into the bodies of their hostesses (worse than any parasite). Anyone who calls an unborn human "innocent" is either horribly ignorant or a horrible liar.


STANDARD STUPID LIE #2. Every unborn human is 100% a human entity; it is also 0% "being", in the same sense that that extraterrestrial alien can qualify as a "being". English-speakers use/don't-use the word "being" rather consistently; no one every talks about "dog beings" or "worm beings" or "tree beings" in ordinary conversations, but phrases such as "intelligent beings", "extraterrestrial beings" and "alien beings" are occasionally used. From context it is clear the word "being" is simply a synonym for "person" --dogs and worms and trees are not persons, so that is why those phrases don't get used --but those other entities can be persons! Therefore the phrase "human being" refers ONLY to human entities that also qualify as persons --and even abortion opponents know that there exist human entities that don't qualify as persons --see your nearest "hydatidiform mole". Or white-blood cell. No abortion opponent has ever provided the slightest bit of Objectively Verifiable evidence that unborn humans qualify as "beings", persons. And therefore to call them "humans" and "human entities" is perfectly OK, but to call them "human beings" is to Stupidly LIE.


THEY EITHER DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, OR THEY ARE LYING. As explained in detail above.
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Ok, I will answer the point you make highlighted in red.

Every human being is distinguished by their DNA

Science can tell human DNA from any other species

every human being as DNA unique to that person

And every person has DNA that is created at conception and has that DNA till the day they die
 
Redress said:
I am not sure if you are aware of this, but different states have different laws. California law is not the same as Texas law.
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Never said it was.
 
Mac77 said:
Ok, I will answer the point you make highlighted in red.
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THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK --ERRONEOUSLY.

Mac77 said:
Every human being is distinguished by their DNA
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HYDATIDIFORM MOLES HAVE 100% HUMAN DNA --therefore according to your cherry-picked definition, hydatidiform moles qualify as "human beings"

Mac77 said:
Science can tell human DNA from any other species
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TRUE.

Mac77 said:
every human being as DNA unique to that person
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FALSE. See "identical twins". EVERY HUMAN ENTITY HAS HUMAN DNA, but that is not sufficient for that entity to automatically qualify as a "person" or "being". Again see your nearest hydatidiform mole!

Mac77 said:
And every person has DNA that is created at conception
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FALSE, just as soon as the first True Artificial Intelligence is constructed (possibly less than 2 decades from now, according to various folks studying the field).

ONLY BIOLOGICAL PERSONS HAVE APPROPRIATE DNA FOR ALLOWING PERSONHOOD TO EXIST. This can possibly include dolphins. And while we expect extraterrestrial alien persons to be able to exist, we have no idea if their biology is based on DNA or something else. But just because a possibility exists, that does not mean it will be fulfilled!

Mac77 said:
and has that DNA till the day they die
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TRUE FOR HUMAN ENTITIES, REGARDLESS OF THEIR STATE OF PERSONHOOD. Nothing you have presented proves that "human=person". Here is a Question for you: "If you were visiting a well-equipped modern medical laboratory, and some madman with a machete cut your head off in an attempt to murder you, but rescuers arrived in time, would you want them to save your severed head, or save your headless body, to save YOU-THE-PERSON?"

You actually DO know what a person truly is. And "human" does NOT qualify!
 
akyron said:
Charges dismissed in indictments over Planned Parenthood sting videos
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/26/planned-parenthood-sting-videos-charges-dismissed
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The case you liked was in Texas.

This case is in California.




Beaudreaux said:
Legally different? That will be up to higher courts to decide. Ideologically different? Oh hell yeah.
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Here is more info I researched about a year ago about this upcoming case.

Actually the lawsuit was filed by ARNOLD and PORTER LLP against Daleiden and CMP in California on January 14 2016:

From wiki:

Arnold & Porter LLP is a nine-office international law firm based in Washington, D.C.[1] Arnold & Porter is well known for its trial, corporate, and antitrust work, and for its pro bono commitments. Founded in 1946, it is one of the largest law firms in the world today.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_&_Porter

From the following article:

Jan. 14, 2016

The California-based CMP broke so many laws to manufacture their smear campaign that we couldn’t sue them for just one thing. Here are the highlights:

The lawsuit is against known anti-abortion extremists, including Daleiden, Troy Newman, Albin Rhomberg, and Sandra Merritt, as well as the front organizations they created to commit their crimes: CMP and BioMax.

The lawsuit charges that CMP, its leaders, and other co-conspirators:

– Violated the Racketeer Influence and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act;
– Violated the federal eavesdropping statute;
– Engaged in wire fraud, mail fraud, invasion of privacy, illegal secret recording, and trespassing; and
– Used a complex criminal enterprise to defraud Planned Parenthood and prevent it from providing health care.

The lawsuit asks for restitution of compensatory and punitive damages and triple damages for violation of the RICO Act, as well as attorney’s fees.
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Planned Parenthood Drops A Bomb On Republicans With Lawsuit Over Illegal Edited Videos

And from the following article:

Jan.14, 2016
The complaint details Daleiden’s ties to radical elements of the anti-choice movement, including previous work with LiveAction, an anti-choice organization that attempts to produce undercover “investigations” targeting Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers. Newman’s history with violent anti-choice extremists as well as his claims that murdering abortion providers is a “justifiable defensive action” is mentioned in the complaint.

The complaint alleges 14 claims against Daleiden, Newman, CMP, and other “unknown co-conspirators” including violations of the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act, civil conspiracy, fraud, invasion of privacy, and a series of violations of criminal law.
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https://rewire.news/article/2016/01...cking-planned-parenthood-criminal-enterprise/


Here is a link to the 65 page complaint.

COMPLAINT FOR DAMAGES AND FOR DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF; DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL
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http://ppfa.pr-optout.com/ViewAttachment.aspx?EID=mr9WXYw4u2IxYnni1dBRVsyFeJIuuWQv+tbEt05Givo=
 
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Mac77 said:
All of your points are trolling of the lowest form
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YOUR OPINIONS ABOUT FACTS MEAN NOTHING. Facts are totally independent of all opinions.

Mac77 said:
Unborn children
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STANDARD STUPID LIE #3. Unborn humans are **provably** very different from "babies" and "children" and "kids". The next time you see an ordinary baby or child or kid crawling around or walking around, having an attached placenta functioning as a vital organ, let me know!

Mac77 said:
are not parasites
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TRUE, AND I DID NOT CALL THEM THAT. I described their **actions** as "worse than parasitic". Entirely because Facts are Facts! (and I linked a number of them!)

Mac77 said:
stealing from a host body
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THEY ABSOLUTELY DO EXACTLY THAT. When a blastocyst implants into a womb, one of the things it does is send hormones into the host-body to command that body to help the blastocyst construct a placenta. The host-body does not do that unless it is commanded to do that (and many hormones are command-signals of one sort or another). The placenta is the tool the unborn human entity uses to steal nutrients from the host-body (and to dump toxic biowastes into the host-body, **and** to infuse addictive and mind-altering substances into the host-body). Your ordinary "baby" or "child" or "kid" does no such thing!

Mac77 said:
That is just crazy talk
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FACTS ARE FACTS. The true "crazy talk" is spouted by abortion opponents who Deny Facts.
 
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Beaudreaux said:
That's what I meant. I understand they're different state laws. I fully anticipate an appeal to the federal court system. If the feds refuse to take the case due to jurisdiction, then that in and of itself will answer the question by a higher court. Very possible. However, there is no guarantee either way at this point. I see a 1st Amendment Freedom of the Press defense, which could potentially bring this into federal territory.

Other than those two points I mention above, for the most part, I think about this in the same way you do in your post.
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Ahh, then I misread your post.My bad

WRT freedom of the press issues - While Daleiden and company *are* pushing that angle (as well as the fake news angle), it will only work on the rubes who already believe any crap they peddle. As far as the courts go, freedom of the press does not empower journalists to break the law by invading the privacy rights of others
 
sangha said:
Ahh, then I misread your post.My bad

WRT freedom of the press issues - While Daleiden and company *are* pushing that angle (as well as the fake news angle), it will only work on the rubes who already believe any crap they peddle. As far as the courts go, freedom of the press does not empower journalists to break the law by invading the privacy rights of others
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We can only hope.
 
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