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Ontogenetic Discrimination and Double Standards

Troodon Roar

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Being open-minded and able to see that the issue of abortion is an incredibly complicated issue, depending upon the particular situation, in that it involves the potentially risky juxtaposition of two valuable lives in the process of pregnancy, I find myself taken aback often by the rhetoric spewing from both sides of the fence. However, I have to admit here that I see many of the erroneous or superficial arguments emanating from the pro-choice side.

One argument, that I won't even expend all that much time on, because it's patently ridiculous, from a developmental biology perspective, is that the unborn entity is not alive, is part of its mother's body, is not yet human, etc. It is obviously alive, and I think even most pro-choicers would agree to this. It is emphatically not part of its mother's body. For anyone inclined to think this way, I have three facts to point out: Did you know that, when it is first conceived, it is not even attached to the mother's body at all, and only attaches later during a process known as implantation? Did you know that you constantly have bacteria inside your body, as well, and sometimes worms, yet no self-respecting person, let alone a scientist, would ever claim that those bacteria or worms are part of your body because they're inside it? And did you know that embryos are sometimes conceived using in vitro fertilization, and reside in a test tube, outside any woman's body -- yet who would claim that, as long as it is inside the test tube, the embryo is part of the test tube? And as for the argument that it is not yet a human because it doesn't "look human" yet, I must ask you this: Are you not aware of the metamorphosis by which a caterpillar changes into a butterfly, a maggot morphs into a fly, a tadpole transmogrifies into a frog? Indeed, caterpillars and maggots resemble worms more than they do butterflies and flies, respectively, and tadpoles resemble fish more than they do frogs. So the fact that a human zygote resembles an amoeba more than its adult self is no more of an argument against it being the same individual human being as its adult self any more so than any of these other creatures' juvenile or larval forms being the younger versions of their adult selves.

Now I arrive at the main gist of this post, the famous/infamous Violinist Argument by Judith Jarvis Thomson. This argument articulates that a woman has the right to an abortion by analogy of a scenario in which a violinist who needs her organs to survive is plugged into her for nine months. According to this argument, she reserves the right to unplug the violinist from her if she does not wish him to survive off of her body, and that, even if doing so would be a morally repugnant choice, she still has the right to make that choice, as her right to bodily autonomy trumps her right to act as a life support system for the violinist.

While this is among the more convincing pro-choice arguments I have yet encountered, and reading it managed to convince me that there was actually some logic and reason within the pro-choice movement, rather than just merely denial of the science of embryology, I still detect a significant flaw within it. And this is the fact that unplugging the violinist merely removes the source of life support, while subsequently allowing the violinist to die. If the violinist were violently dismembered and torn apart, limb-from-limb, as in many abortions, then, this would be a valid analogy. But as long as abortions continue to be performed via utilization of violent means, then this argument cannot be a completely potent one.

Be honest with yourselves here, pro-choicers. If you really were in such a situation with a violinist, would you merely unplug him and leave him to die, or would you hire a doctor to dismember him and tear him apart, ripping off his limbs, crushing his skull, etcetera? If your answer is the former, then this is a major logical error with Thomson's Violinist Argument.
 
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(continued)
Another thing I need to point out is that some, including me in the past, have referred to abortion as ageism because it denies the right to life of someone based purely on their stage of development, or ontogenetic stage, which is often connected to their age (albeit not always, as cases such as freezing of embryos attest). Some have replied that, if an adult or teenager were connected to their endometrial tissue, they would reserve the right to abort them, as well, rendering it false that abortion is ageist.

But I must ask this: Let's say we lived in an alternate universe in which human teenagers went through a phase where they had to attach themselves to their mothers' bodies to survive. In such a world, do you seriously think the government would allow the mother to go to a doctor to have her teenage child be dismembered in front of her own eyes with surgical implements because it's her body, and her right to bodily autonomy and personal choice is paramount?

If you were the mother of the teenager in such a situation, would you seriously treat the situation with the exact same mindset as if it was a zygote, embryo, or fetus that was living off of your body? The very fact that the United States government already allows for restrictions on abortions in the Third Trimester of pregnancy, and that many, including some pro-choicers, as well as some in the pro-life movement, will readily admit that they find later-term abortions to carry more moral gravity, is ample evidence that at least some of the pro-choice argument is, indeed, tantamount to ageism.

As if that weren't enough, some people who are pro-choice on abortion even deem it morally permissible to kill infants after their birth, such as philosopher Peter Singer, as well as the whole debacle over embryo-killing stem cell research. In both of these cases, I shall point out, the killing occurs entirely outside of a woman's body, so the argument from bodily autonomy cannot be utilized in conjunction with them.

It is clear to me that, in spite of the protestations of many ardent pro-choicers, that the pro-choice movement is inundated with ageism, or what I like to refer to by a phrase I have coined, ontogenetic snobbery. If the pro-choice movement wants my respect, which it can earn, it needs to do the following: I. Stop denying the fact that an individual's life begins at time of fertilization, or the equivalent event, such as cloning or twinning. II. Do not attack the humanity or personhood of the unborn, and focus entirely on arguments about the woman and her safety and bodily autonomy. III. Work to make sure that all abortions are done by merely expelling the conceptus from the uterus and allowing it to die, rather than violently dismembering it, so that the Violinist Argument can be said to hold. IIII. Check your own powerful, unconscious ontogenetic snobbery, and recognize that a zygote, embryo, or fetus is worth just as much as an adolescent or an adult. V. Stop being ageist, and don't act as if later trimester abortions are morally worse than earlier trimester ones, because all lives are worth the same from conception or its equivalent onwards, regardless of age or stage of development (this criticism applies to many pro-lifers, as well).
 
Being open-minded and able to see that the issue of abortion is an incredibly complicated issue, depending upon the particular situation, in that it involves the potentially risky juxtaposition of two valuable lives in the process of pregnancy, I find myself taken aback often by the rhetoric spewing from both sides of the fence. However, I have to admit here that I see many of the erroneous or superficial arguments emanating from the pro-choice side.

One argument, that I won't even expend all that much time on, because it's patently ridiculous, from a developmental biology perspective, is that the unborn entity is not alive, is part of its mother's body, is not yet human, etc. It is obviously alive, and I think even most pro-choicers would agree to this. It is emphatically not part of its mother's body. For anyone inclined to think this way, I have three facts to point out: Did you know that, when it is first conceived, it is not even attached to the mother's body at all, and only attaches later during a process known as implantation? Did you know that you constantly have bacteria inside your body, as well, and sometimes worms, yet no self-respecting person, let alone a scientist, would ever claim that those bacteria or worms are part of your body because they're inside it? And did you know that embryos are sometimes conceived using in vitro fertilization, and reside in a test tube, outside any woman's body -- yet who would claim that, as long as it is inside the test tube, the embryo is part of the test tube? And as for the argument that it is not yet a human because it doesn't "look human" yet, I must ask you this: Are you not aware of the metamorphosis by which a caterpillar changes into a butterfly, a maggot morphs into a fly, a tadpole transmogrifies into a frog? Indeed, caterpillars and maggots resemble worms more than they do butterflies and flies, respectively, and tadpoles resemble fish more than they do frogs. So the fact that a human zygote resembles an amoeba more than its adult self is no more of an argument against it being the same individual human being as its adult self any more so than any of these other creatures' juvenile or larval forms being the younger versions of their adult selves.

Now I arrive at the main gist of this post, the famous/infamous Violinist Argument by Judith Jarvis Thomson. This argument articulates that a woman has the right to an abortion by analogy of a scenario in which a violinist who needs her organs to survive is plugged into her for nine months. According to this argument, she reserves the right to unplug the violonist from her if she does not wish him to survive off of her body, and that, even if doing so would be a morally repugnant choice, she still has the right to make that choice, as her right to bodily autonomy trumps her right to act as a life support system for the violinist.

While this is among the more convincing pro-choice arguments I have yet encountered, and reading it managed to convince me that there was actually some logic and reason within the pro-choice movement, rather than just merely denial of the science of embryology, I still detect a significant flaw within it. And this is the fact that unplugging the violinist merely removes the source of life support, while subsequently allowing the violinist to die. If the violinist were violently dismembered and torn apart, limb-from-limb, as in many abortions, then, this would be a valid analogy. But as long as abortions continue to be performed via utilization of violent means, then this argument cannot be a completely potent one.

Be honest with yourselves here, pro-choicers. If you really were in such a situation with a violinist, would you merely unplug him and leave him to die, or would you hire a doctor to dismember him and tear him apart, ripping off his limbs, crushing his skull, etcetera? If your answer is the former, then this is a major logical error with Thomson's Violinist Argument.

Be honest with us and try to refute the real argument for why abortions are legal

The constitution does not give the govt the power to ban abortion

Refute that instead of wasting your time refuting every straw man about abortion you have ever heard
 
Not once did I ever say I think abortion should not be legal. I am just pointing out the double standard inherent in how humans at certain stages of development are treated relative to others. This extends beyond abortion, as well, to issues such as infanticide and embryonic stem cell research that destroys embryos.
 
Not once did I ever say I think abortion should not be legal. I am just pointing out the double standard inherent in how humans at certain stages of development are treated relative to others. This extends beyond abortion, as well, to issues such as infanticide and embryonic stem cell research that destroys embryos.

I said nothing about your opinion on abortion. I merely pointed out that the constitution does not give our govt the power to ban abortion, which is the most critical and inarguable fact explaining why abortion can not be banned under our constitution.

And there is no double standard. We treat different situations differently. We dont allow 5 year olds drive cars or drink a bottle of vodka. We dont allow 90 year olds to marry 13 year olds. There is a reason for this

This country is not insane. Treating different situations differently is How It Is Supposed To Be
 
Good gravy. Pick a topic. Narrow it down.

Way down.
 
Be honest with us and try to refute the real argument for why abortions are legal

The constitution does not give the govt the power to ban abortion

Refute that instead of wasting your time refuting every straw man about abortion you have ever heard

Which argument do you think is the one why abortions are legal?
 
The abortion debate is mainly revolved around personhood. The science part like humans begin to exist after fertilization is no longer in doubt. Though some will engage in sophistry to deny the science like some here have done in the past.

No honest or reasonable pro choicers will deny scientific facts and won't be making bodily rights arguments as in doing so, they're making the pro choice position more harder to argue.
 
When one is going to discuss a topic, especially one like abortion it is best to NOT make up the arguments for others. Simply ask them what they believe and support and why. Grouping all pro lifers or pro choicers together is silly and very counter productive. If one is interested in honest debate step one is to ASK what a person believes and supports, do not assume. The other most important part is to understand what facts vs opinions are. Good luck!
 
I am aware that neither pro-choicers nor pro-lifers are monoliths, with there being considerable differences in opinion between different members within both groups. I was referring specifically to the most vocal proponents of the pro-choice movement in my initial posts, and as for the pro-life movement, I was referring specifically to the ones that have introduced political legislation to prohibit abortions after x number of weeks. I meant to say that both of these are forms of ageism, however subtle and implicit they may seem to be.
 
The constitution does not give the govt the power to ban abortion

Yes it does.

The Constitution does not set the criminal code for the individual states nor federal territory. It establishes a nation where the federal government's legislature sets the criminal code for explicitly federal territory and the states set their own criminal code in accordance with the procedures of their state governments.


You may as well fatuously claim that the Constitution does not give the power to ban robbery. It would have as much support, as robbery is likewise not mentioned within the text.



You're welcome for the correction, now you can stop saying this stupid thing and get a real argument.
 
... two valuable lives in the process of pregnancy,
AN UNPROVED CLAIM. **All** valuations are Relative, Subjective, and Arbitrary. The mother is declared to be valuable because she is a person. The unborn human does not qualify as a person, so it cannot possibly have the same value that is assigned to the mother.

the fact that a human zygote resembles an amoeba more than its adult self is no more of an argument against it being the same individual human
TRUE.

FALSE. "A human" is not automatically the same thing as "a human being". Consider the phrases, "rabbit being", "intelligent being", "dandelion being", "extraterrestrial being", "snail being", and "alien being": three of them could qualify as persons, but three do not, and therefore those three phrases do not get used in any ordinary conversations. The word "being", therefore, is a synonym for "person", and should only be used when talking about entities that actually qualify as persons.

NEXT, consider a brain-dead adult human on full life-support. Once verified as truly brain-dead, a death certificate can be filled out. That means that that human, even though the body is still alive (except for the brain), is Officially A Corpse, no longer a person or "human being". Well, for the first several weeks after conception, a human entity exists that has no brain at all, much less a functioning brain. If you insist on calling that entity a "person" or "human being", with right-to-life, then you are in-essence saying that a functioning brain is irrelevant to personhood, and therefore you insist the brain-dead adult human body on full life-support must also be a person with right-to-life, despite the doctors and the scientists and the lawyers **all** agreeing it is a corpse!

MORE evidence that the concepts of "human" and "person" are totally independent concepts comes from studying "hydatidiform moles". These 100% human entities begin to exist via ovum-fertilization events, exactly like normal zygotes. They develop through the "morula" and "blastocyst" stages, exactly like normal zygotes. But after one implants into a uterus, instead of developing into a normal human embryo it causes something called "trophoblastic disease", and must be destroyed. No abortion opponent calls a hydatidiform mole a person, even though it is 100% alive and 100% human. Therefore personhood is indeed a totally different concept from human-ness!

NEXT, it just so happens that the study of "feral children" has proved that it is NOT inevitable for ANY human to become a person (which is where all claims regarding "ageism" erroneously come from). The Natural Biological Default, for human development, basically ends at the "clever animal" stage, somewhat equivalent to a gorilla or chimpanzee, but also somewhat smarter (because has a bigger brain). It takes something that Biology does not provide at all, "Nurture" (something not inevitably provided by adult humans), to convert a human animal into a human person. And since all Nurturing happens after birth, no human at any stage prior to birth can possibly qualify as a person.

Now I arrive at the main gist of this post, the famous/infamous Violinist Argument by Judith Jarvis Thomson.
THAT ARGUMENT IS FLAWED BECAUSE IT PITS THE RIGHTS OF TWO PERSONS AGAINST EACH OTHER. That means it is not a good analogy to the situation of pregnancy, which typically involves one person and one animal. The person has rights, the unborn human animal doesn't. Very Simple!
 
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You're welcome for the correction, now you can stop saying this stupid thing and get a real argument.
TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF, AGAIN, I SEE. When will you stop saying the stupid thing, "unborn humans don't cause harm", a matter about which you have been corrected several times, in detail, and get a real argument?
 
Yes it does.

The Constitution does not set the criminal code for the individual states nor federal territory. It establishes a nation where the federal government's legislature sets the criminal code for explicitly federal territory and the states set their own criminal code in accordance with the procedures of their state governments.


You may as well fatuously claim that the Constitution does not give the power to ban robbery. It would have as much support, as robbery is likewise not mentioned within the text.



You're welcome for the correction, now you can stop saying this stupid thing and get a real argument.

Since Abortion is not a crime the person you were ranting about is right.
 
The bible is quite clear about the value of a fetus - it has none.

I do not remember the chapter or verse but there is a section where it in the OT where it discusses how to recompense and man for the loss of his pregnant wife who is killed. the woman is worth money the fetus is not.
 
Being open-minded and able to see that the issue of abortion is an incredibly complicated issue, depending upon the particular situation, in that it involves the potentially risky juxtaposition of two valuable lives in the process of pregnancy, I find myself taken aback often by the rhetoric spewing from both sides of the fence. However, I have to admit here that I see many of the erroneous or superficial arguments emanating from the pro-choice side.

[...trimmed because your rambling put me over the limit, and this seems to be the least important part of your post...]

Now I arrive at the main gist of this post, the famous/infamous Violinist Argument by Judith Jarvis Thomson. This argument articulates that a woman has the right to an abortion by analogy of a scenario in which a violinist who needs her organs to survive is plugged into her for nine months. According to this argument, she reserves the right to unplug the violinist from her if she does not wish him to survive off of her body, and that, even if doing so would be a morally repugnant choice, she still has the right to make that choice, as her right to bodily autonomy trumps her right to act as a life support system for the violinist.

While this is among the more convincing pro-choice arguments I have yet encountered, and reading it managed to convince me that there was actually some logic and reason within the pro-choice movement, rather than just merely denial of the science of embryology, I still detect a significant flaw within it. And this is the fact that unplugging the violinist merely removes the source of life support, while subsequently allowing the violinist to die. If the violinist were violently dismembered and torn apart, limb-from-limb, as in many abortions, then, this would be a valid analogy. But as long as abortions continue to be performed via utilization of violent means, then this argument cannot be a completely potent one.

Be honest with yourselves here, pro-choicers. If you really were in such a situation with a violinist, would you merely unplug him and leave him to die, or would you hire a doctor to dismember him and tear him apart, ripping off his limbs, crushing his skull, etcetera? If your answer is the former, then this is a major logical error with Thomson's Violinist Argument.

The pro-choice argument to which you are refering is an argument from self-defense. And the basic rule of self-defense goes thusly: if it is the minimum amount of force required in order to accomplish the goal of self-preservation, then it is acceptable. If the minimum happens to be extreme, then that's life.

In the case of pregnancy, removal of said ZEF is the minimum requirement in order to accomplish the goal of self-preservation. Hardly any abortions are done by dismemberment; typically only late medical cases, and that method is required in order to avoid trauma to the woman's body, which is frankly more important than anything else. Elective abortions, however, tend to be quite early, and really don't look any different from a slightly heavy period. But your emotionally dishonest storytelling aside...

Even if abortion were even remotely as gruesome as your emotionally dishonest storytelling, it would still be entirely justifiable because it is the minimum requirement in order for the woman to protect her body. And as the used and harmed party, the woman has an absolute right to protect her body from unwanted manipulation at all times, and in the most absolute possible sense.

I frankly don't care what a ZEF is. Nothing has some sort of right to use and damage another's body against their will. Furthermore there is nothing "morally repugnant" about that decision. As in all cases of self-preservation, "morals" never enter into it. It is simply a right.
 
The abortion debate is mainly revolved around personhood. The science part like humans begin to exist after fertilization is no longer in doubt. Though some will engage in sophistry to deny the science like some here have done in the past.

No honest or reasonable pro choicers will deny scientific facts and won't be making bodily rights arguments as in doing so, they're making the pro choice position more harder to argue.

I am not sure you are right about your first premise. Because of the number of variable factors involved scientists (real ones) have never made a determination like the one you mentioned. As a scientist and a biologist to boot I am unaware of any large or reputable group of scientists who have claimed with research based proof which has been verified (the scientific method requires this). That a human beings existence begins at conception or the initial division of cells.

Sentient life can only occur when their is thought behind it and we do not attain anything like that until (at the earliest) the 10th wk. probably later.

This is the same argument made on billboards showing a fetus' heart supposedly beating after (and the numbers keep changing) a few hours after conception. This is patently absurd.
 
Since Abortion is not a crime the person you were ranting about is right.

Robbery isn't listed in the constitution either.

Ergo the government doesn't have the power to ban robbery?

That is his argument. Do you agree with his argument?

You shouldn't, because it's ****ing stupid and demonstrably wrong... as already demonstrated.
 
I am not sure you are right about your first premise. Because of the number of variable factors involved scientists (real ones) have never made a determination like the one you mentioned. As a scientist and a biologist to boot I am unaware of any large or reputable group of scientists who have claimed with research based proof which has been verified (the scientific method requires this). That a human beings existence begins at conception or the initial division of cells.

Sentient life can only occur when their is thought behind it and we do not attain anything like that until (at the earliest) the 10th wk. probably later.

This is the same argument made on billboards showing a fetus' heart supposedly beating after (and the numbers keep changing) a few hours after conception. This is patently absurd.

All in all, the science is clear on what species the unborn are so it doesn't matter if some scientists want to deny the fact.

Anencephaly humans btw are still considered humans despite the fact they have no brains to form thoughts with. No scientist or biologist will deny that unless they want to betray science itself which is what you should be making your appeal towards.

It's better to accept the facts and move towards the main part of the abortion debate which is personhood.
 
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Being open-minded and able to see that the issue of abortion is an incredibly complicated issue, depending upon the particular situation, in that it involves the potentially risky juxtaposition of two valuable lives in the process of pregnancy, I find myself taken aback often by the rhetoric spewing from both sides of the fence. However, I have to admit here that I see many of the erroneous or superficial arguments emanating from the pro-choice side.

One argument, that I won't even expend all that much time on, because it's patently ridiculous, from a developmental biology perspective, is that the unborn entity is not alive, is part of its mother's body, is not yet human, etc. It is obviously alive, and I think even most pro-choicers would agree to this. It is emphatically not part of its mother's body. For anyone inclined to think this way, I have three facts to point out: Did you know that, when it is first conceived, it is not even attached to the mother's body at all, and only attaches later during a process known as implantation? Did you know that you constantly have bacteria inside your body, as well, and sometimes worms, yet no self-respecting person, let alone a scientist, would ever claim that those bacteria or worms are part of your body because they're inside it? And did you know that embryos are sometimes conceived using in vitro fertilization, and reside in a test tube, outside any woman's body -- yet who would claim that, as long as it is inside the test tube, the embryo is part of the test tube? And as for the argument that it is not yet a human because it doesn't "look human" yet, I must ask you this: Are you not aware of the metamorphosis by which a caterpillar changes into a butterfly, a maggot morphs into a fly, a tadpole transmogrifies into a frog? Indeed, caterpillars and maggots resemble worms more than they do butterflies and flies, respectively, and tadpoles resemble fish more than they do frogs. So the fact that a human zygote resembles an amoeba more than its adult self is no more of an argument against it being the same individual human being as its adult self any more so than any of these other creatures' juvenile or larval forms being the younger versions of their adult selves.

Now I arrive at the main gist of this post, the famous/infamous Violinist Argument by Judith Jarvis Thomson. This argument articulates that a woman has the right to an abortion by analogy of a scenario in which a violinist who needs her organs to survive is plugged into her for nine months. According to this argument, she reserves the right to unplug the violinist from her if she does not wish him to survive off of her body, and that, even if doing so would be a morally repugnant choice, she still has the right to make that choice, as her right to bodily autonomy trumps her right to act as a life support system for the violinist.

While this is among the more convincing pro-choice arguments I have yet encountered, and reading it managed to convince me that there was actually some logic and reason within the pro-choice movement, rather than just merely denial of the science of embryology, I still detect a significant flaw within it. And this is the fact that unplugging the violinist merely removes the source of life support, while subsequently allowing the violinist to die. If the violinist were violently dismembered and torn apart, limb-from-limb, as in many abortions, then, this would be a valid analogy. But as long as abortions continue to be performed via utilization of violent means, then this argument cannot be a completely potent one.

Be honest with yourselves here, pro-choicers. If you really were in such a situation with a violinist, would you merely unplug him and leave him to die, or would you hire a doctor to dismember him and tear him apart, ripping off his limbs, crushing his skull, etcetera? If your answer is the former, then this is a major logical error with Thomson's Violinist Argument.
What a bunch of ignorant tripe. You think that sophistry will mask that?
 
By the way, I am fully aware that neither a heart nor a brain is present for the first few weeks after conception. The absence of those organs is normal for a human at that developmental stage, just as the absence of large breasts and facial hair is normal for pre-pubertal human children. Neither of those organs are required for life, as numerous organisms ranging from bacteria to fungi to plants gladly attest.

And as for the argument from brain-death marking the end of a human's life, it shall be pointed out that it does not necessarily follow that the same organs that are required to sustain life during one developmental stage are required equally at all developmental stages. What really heralds death in an organism is not loss of brain function per se, but loss of the ability of the parts of the organism to function together as a unified, coordinated whole, or loss of integrated organismal behavior. In postnatal humans, this occurs once the brain stops functioning, as the brain is vital for integrated organismal behavior at these ages. But in prenatal humans at stages before the brain has developed, mechanisms within the cell, such as the cytoskeleton and its components, such as microtubules, are sufficient to furnish integrated organismal function, which is the essence of what defines the presence of a living organism.

And as for personhood being an acquired characteristic of humans, which can only form with time after birth, I must say that I approach the entire personhood question from a totally different angle, as, in addition to supporting the rights of antenatal humans, I just as much support the rights of non-human animals. I personally consider all living organisms, including all non-human animals and all non-animalian organisms such as plants and bacteria, at all stages of development from conception or its equivalent to death, persons.

So don't try to persuade me by comparing a zygote, embryo, or fetus to non-human animals, as I already consider those to be persons, as well.

In other words, don't try to make me ageist by assuming I'm speciesist. Because I am neither. I am devoted to fighting ageism, or ontogenetic discrimination and postnatal supremacy, as well as speciesism, or phylogenetic discrimination and human supremacy.
 
By the way, I am fully aware that neither a heart nor a brain is present for the first few weeks after conception...
NOT THE POINT. Scientists tend to associate personhood with brainpower. If for some entity the minimum relevant brainpower doesn't exist, then personhood for that entity doesn't exist either. Note that scientists tend to work with Measurable Facts. Your post doesn't seem to contain rather more personal opinions than facts about the nature of personhood.

And as for the argument from brain-death marking the end of a human's life,...
THAT ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT THE END OF PERSONHOOD. Which is a different concept than "life". Do keep in mind that in the not-too-distant future we expect True Artificial Intelligences to begin to exist, fully person-class "machine beings", and not at all "alive" in any normal biological sense.

And as for personhood being an acquired characteristic of humans, which can only form with time after birth,
THAT'S WHAT THE SCIENTISTS MEASURE. How are your unsupported claims superior to actual measurements?

I just as much support the rights of non-human animals... including all non-human animals and all non-animalian organisms such as plants and bacteria, at all stages of development from conception or its equivalent to death, persons.
LOTS OF MURDERS HAPPENING AS A CONSEQUENCE. The definition of "murder" is linked to killing a person, and you cannot survive without killing other life-forms (your body's immune system routinely kills hordes of invading microbes every day).
WHICH LEADS TO A QUESTION: Why is your life more important than all the lives of the bacteria that could begin to exist while feasting on your decaying corpse? There's a relatively famous quotation from the fictional "Star Trek" universe that actually got referenced in a formal Legal Case: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." And all those bacteria would outnumber you by many many times....

I am devoted to fighting ageism, or ontogenetic discrimination and postnatal supremacy, as well as speciesism, or phylogenetic discrimination and human supremacy.
YOU ARE NOT DOING IT VERY WELL. Perhaps you should study the facts about something called "vitalism", an ancient hypothesis that turned out to be dead wrong. You appear to be suffering from the delusion that a living thing is somehow more special than a complicated machine. Nope: the living thing IS just a complicated machine!
 
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