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Can't' take Christian Pro Life Rhetoric Seriously

SheWolf

SheWolf

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When I talk to Jewish and Muslim people, they generally say abortion is wrong and of course some disagreement between them about exceptions. Christians tend to engage in very dogmatic rhetoric. Maybe somebody else has insight about this and why, but I have heard about the haunted hell houses and other things which leads me to believe that abstinence and pro-life philosophy is something instilled in children very young. So in comparison to other religious groups, Christians are very politically active and use strong political rhetoric. The pivot of it being "abortion is murder." That then leads into a lot of other rhetoric that I have a hard time taken seriously.

Here are few things they say:

I would never murder my children at any age for any reason. Killing your kids inexcusable.

Abortion is genocide.

Abortion is worse than the Holocaust.


And if you believe all of the above, then it logically leads to pro-lifers saying:

Women who try to murder their kids (have an abortion) deserve to die.

Abortion doctors are not actual doctors, they are serial killers.


Almost every pro-lifer on this board makes these kind of statements on some level, and I just can't take it seriously.

First of all, when you start equating abortion to genocide, it really ignores a lot about what genocide is and what it entails. I have been reading some of Danial Jonah Goldhagen, and he studies and writes about genocide (his family was in the Holocaust). Genocide is in essence carrying out one's hate. It's committed against a group because you believe they threaten to your own group. The underlying cause of bigotry and hate is fearing a group of people. Genocide involves overkilling the targeted group. History sees targeted groups killed in the most horrific and brutal ways. The deaths are unnecessarily brutal, as they are a manifestation of hate.

When I think of somebody killing prisoners at Auschwitz, I don't even think that that is how Andre Yates felt when she killed her kids. I don't consider what she did as genocide or an act of hate towards the children. She killed five kids. It's truly disturbing, but I don't really think of her her mental state was like a guard at Auschwitz fearing and hating her kids, thinking they threatened her status, way of life, etc. I can think of a few other people in the news for killing their kids, and I don't think genocide or hate was the underlying cause. I also think going from Auschwitz to killing your own kids to having an abortion is another leap. I really don't think abortion is hate and genocide. I believe all three categories of killing are different and involves a different mindset.

(I did say killing, it wasn't an accident. I don't take pro life philosophy seriously.)

Secondly, there is a difference between a five year old and a unborn baby. I am not comfortable with late term abortion, so I would say embryo to be more precise on "unborn baby." Killing a five year old and having an abortion is not the same. I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. I am personally pro-life, but this is another crinkle in pro-life philosophy.

Using this line of reasoning prevents you from admitting the identity of the female plays a role. Her identity, well being, mental state, physical health, and how she feels about carrying a pregnancy to term actually plays a role in how she feels about her pregnancy. That is not a factor when you have a five year old.

A females identity deeply matters to her when she is raped, when is having a health issue, or when her life is in danger. I have absolutely no problem with abortion in those situations. If you say abortion is murder, then you put yourself in the corner... why should a rape victim get to murder an innocent baby... why should a baby be executed for somebody else committing the crime of rape? This thinking is exactly why we get news stories like the Catholic pope excommunicating people for helping a 12 year old girl get an abortion after being raped.

In closing, I don't take pro life philosophy seriously. When I hear pro lifers use such language, it doesn't really make me see things from their perspective. Instead, it makes think they are committed to a flawed philosophy and incapable of having a conversation.
 
The abortion issue was invented after Roe Vs. Wade as a Wedge issue for Republicans to secure the evangelical vote, it's nothing more than a motivational tool that's gone too far.

Many pro-life conservatives will make grand proclamations in other threads about limited government, get government off peoples backs, but on this front, it's full state control over the bodily sovereignty of women and their private medical decisions.
 
Why shouldn't someone be considered a serial killer when they kill one of their two healthy patients at the request of the other patient on a regular basis?
 
Last edited:
I'd take pro-lifers a little more seriously if they were consistent with it. Seems most of them don't blink an eye when that abortion was induced by a tomahawk missile half a world away.
 
SheWolf said:
When I talk to Jewish and Muslim people, they generally say abortion is wrong and of course some disagreement between them about exceptions. Christians tend to engage in very dogmatic rhetoric. Maybe somebody else has insight about this and why, but I have heard about the haunted hell houses and other things which leads me to believe that abstinence and pro-life philosophy is something instilled in children very young. So in comparison to other religious groups, Christians are very politically active and use strong political rhetoric. The pivot of it being "abortion is murder." That then leads into a lot of other rhetoric that I have a hard time taken seriously.

Here are few things they say:

I would never murder my children at any age for any reason. Killing your kids inexcusable.

Abortion is genocide.

Abortion is worse than the Holocaust.


And if you believe all of the above, then it logically leads to pro-lifers saying:

Women who try to murder their kids (have an abortion) deserve to die.

Abortion doctors are not actual doctors, they are serial killers.


Almost every pro-lifer on this board makes these kind of statements on some level, and I just can't take it seriously.
Click to expand...

I only qouted the part I read, the beginning, I didn't even bother reading the rest for the simply reason I'll get into in a minute. The bolded parts are simply not true and I only personally know one, maybe two posters who talk the way you are describing here. Neither of those posters seem to be taken seriously by ANYBODY pro-life or pro-choice and there are many pro lifers here who do NOT say those things you claim. I am a pro-life christian and I don't participate in that stuff at all. I also participate in two different pro-life orgs and they don't do those things either. First and foremost we are about two things, information sharing (options for finance help, options for health care, medical facts and honesty) next about working on RvW and legalities by using the previously mentioned. Even if I believe it or any of the other men and women believed it the dumbest thing one could do is tell a woman looking for help and info that she is a murder who is contemplating something worse that the holocaust and deserves to die. Good lord that would not accomplish anything and be completely counter productive to the movement. Anyway, like I was saying, THIS pro-life christian doesn't do that and I have only seen about 2 people here do things like that and most people call them out on it.
 
SheWolf said:
When I talk to Jewish and Muslim people, they generally say abortion is wrong and of course some disagreement between them about exceptions. Christians tend to engage in very dogmatic rhetoric. Maybe somebody else has insight about this and why, but I have heard about the haunted hell houses and other things which leads me to believe that abstinence and pro-life philosophy is something instilled in children very young. So in comparison to other religious groups, Christians are very politically active and use strong political rhetoric. The pivot of it being "abortion is murder." That then leads into a lot of other rhetoric that I have a hard time taken seriously.

Here are few things they say:

I would never murder my children at any age for any reason. Killing your kids inexcusable.

Abortion is genocide.

Abortion is worse than the Holocaust.


And if you believe all of the above, then it logically leads to pro-lifers saying:

Women who try to murder their kids (have an abortion) deserve to die.

Abortion doctors are not actual doctors, they are serial killers.


Almost every pro-lifer on this board makes these kind of statements on some level, and I just can't take it seriously.

First of all, when you start equating abortion to genocide, it really ignores a lot about what genocide is and what it entails. I have been reading some of Danial Jonah Goldhagen, and he studies and writes about genocide (his family was in the Holocaust). Genocide is in essence carrying out one's hate. It's committed against a group because you believe they threaten to your own group. The underlying cause of bigotry and hate is fearing a group of people. Genocide involves overkilling the targeted group. History sees targeted groups killed in the most horrific and brutal ways. The deaths are unnecessarily brutal, as they are a manifestation of hate.

When I think of somebody killing prisoners at Auschwitz, I don't even think that that is how Andre Yates felt when she killed her kids. I don't consider what she did as genocide or an act of hate towards the children. She killed five kids. It's truly disturbing, but I don't really think of her her mental state was like a guard at Auschwitz fearing and hating her kids, thinking they threatened her status, way of life, etc. I can think of a few other people in the news for killing their kids, and I don't think genocide or hate was the underlying cause. I also think going from Auschwitz to killing your own kids to having an abortion is another leap. I really don't think abortion is hate and genocide. I believe all three categories of killing are different and involves a different mindset.

(I did say killing, it wasn't an accident. I don't take pro life philosophy seriously.)

Secondly, there is a difference between a five year old and a unborn baby. I am not comfortable with late term abortion, so I would say embryo to be more precise on "unborn baby." Killing a five year old and having an abortion is not the same. I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. I am personally pro-life, but this is another crinkle in pro-life philosophy.

Using this line of reasoning prevents you from admitting the identity of the female plays a role. Her identity, well being, mental state, physical health, and how she feels about carrying a pregnancy to term actually plays a role in how she feels about her pregnancy. That is not a factor when you have a five year old.

A females identity deeply matters to her when she is raped, when is having a health issue, or when her life is in danger. I have absolutely no problem with abortion in those situations. If you say abortion is murder, then you put yourself in the corner... why should a rape victim get to murder an innocent baby... why should a baby be executed for somebody else committing the crime of rape? This thinking is exactly why we get news stories like the Catholic pope excommunicating people for helping a 12 year old girl get an abortion after being raped.

In closing, I don't take pro life philosophy seriously. When I hear pro lifers use such language, it doesn't really make me see things from their perspective. Instead, it makes think they are committed to a flawed philosophy and incapable of having a conversation.
Click to expand...

That's a fair opiniin and resembles widly held ones about eugenics at the end of the 19th into the 20th. For practicing accordingly now, you would do considerable time.
 
Geoist said:
I'd take pro-lifers a little more seriously if they were consistent with it. Seems most of them don't blink an eye when that abortion was induced by a tomahawk missile half a world away.
Click to expand...

:roll:

I don't think many people support killing innocents in war.
 
LaylaWindu said:
I only qouted the part I read, the beginning, I didn't even bother reading the rest for the simply reason I'll get into in a minute. The bolded parts are simply not true and I only personally know one, maybe two posters who talk the way you are describing here. Neither of those posters seem to be taken seriously by ANYBODY pro-life or pro-choice and there are many pro lifers here who do NOT say those things you claim. I am a pro-life christian and I don't participate in that stuff at all. I also participate in two different pro-life orgs and they don't do those things either. First and foremost we are about two things, information sharing (options for finance help, options for health care, medical facts and honesty) next about working on RvW and legalities by using the previously mentioned. Even if I believe it or any of the other men and women believed it the dumbest thing one could do is tell a woman looking for help and info that she is a murder who is contemplating something worse that the holocaust and deserves to die. Good lord that would not accomplish anything and be completely counter productive to the movement. Anyway, like I was saying, THIS pro-life christian doesn't do that and I have only seen about 2 people here do things like that and most people call them out on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're pro-life, and yet support abortion being legal for weeks on end for any reason.

Nothing like taking a pro-choice position and claiming you're pro-life.
 
Henrin said:
:roll:

I don't think many people support killing innocents in war.
Click to expand...

I didn't say "support." It is more like apathy.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The abortion issue was invented after Roe Vs. Wade as a Wedge issue for Republicans to secure the evangelical vote, it's nothing more than a motivational tool that's gone too far.

Many pro-life conservatives will make grand proclamations in other threads about limited government, get government off peoples backs, but on this front, it's full state control over the bodily sovereignty of women and their private medical decisions.
Click to expand...

That would all be true if there wasn't another body inside of the woman.
 
Henrin said:
Ok, but I'm not convinced that is true either.
Click to expand...

:shrug:

Apparently, you didn't grow up in the Christian community I grew up in.
 
Henrin said:
Why shouldn't someone be considered a serial killer when they kill one of their two healthy patients at the request of the other patient on a regular basis?
Click to expand...

Hey look at that!

An anarchist who takes waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much interest in the private medical decisions of others.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The abortion issue was invented after Roe Vs. Wade as a Wedge issue for Republicans to secure the evangelical vote, it's nothing more than a motivational tool that's gone too far.

Many pro-life conservatives will make grand proclamations in other threads about limited government, get government off peoples backs, but on this front, it's full state control over the bodily sovereignty of women and their private medical decisions.
Click to expand...

Only considering one party in that argument, I see. You know, there is two bodies in play here, not just one. The whole body sovereignty argument falls apart somewhat when it comes to abortion.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Hey look at that!

An anarchist who takes waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much interest in the private medical decisions of others.
Click to expand...

I don't imagine you will ever look up what the term anarchist means.
 
Henrin said:
The whole body sovereignty argument falls apart somewhat when it comes to abortion.
Click to expand...

As soon as the state requires that you produce children in all circumstances, you become a child bearer of the state.

Pretty strange argument for an anarchist to make.
 
Jetboogieman said:
As soon as the state requires that you produce children in all circumstances, you become a child bearer of the state.

Pretty strange argument for an anarchist to make.
Click to expand...

Who is talking about forcing women to be pregnant? Hint: The child already exists. What do you even think is being aborted anyway?
 
Jetboogieman said:
Why is it so difficult for an Anarchist to stay out of womens lives?
Click to expand...

Do you ever have something worth saying? All you ever do is address other posters personally in every thread you post in.
 
Henrin said:
Do you ever have something worth saying? All you ever do is address other posters personally in every thread you post in.
Click to expand...

It's curiosity more than anything, why does an anarchist, who wants to tear down civilization itself, care so much about other mens body hair and womens private medical decisions?
 
Jetboogieman said:
It's curiosity more than anything, why does an anarchist, who wants to tear down civilization itself, care so much about other mens body hair and womens private medical decisions?
Click to expand...

No, it's not. You're not only worthless in every thread you post in, but you're also a liar.
 
SheWolf said:
When I talk to Jewish and Muslim people, they generally say abortion is wrong and of course some disagreement between them about exceptions. Christians tend to engage in very dogmatic rhetoric. Maybe somebody else has insight about this and why, but I have heard about the haunted hell houses and other things which leads me to believe that abstinence and pro-life philosophy is something instilled in children very young. So in comparison to other religious groups, Christians are very politically active and use strong political rhetoric. The pivot of it being "abortion is murder." That then leads into a lot of other rhetoric that I have a hard time taken seriously.

Here are few things they say:

I would never murder my children at any age for any reason. Killing your kids inexcusable.

Abortion is genocide.

Abortion is worse than the Holocaust.


And if you believe all of the above, then it logically leads to pro-lifers saying:

Women who try to murder their kids (have an abortion) deserve to die.

Abortion doctors are not actual doctors, they are serial killers.


Almost every pro-lifer on this board makes these kind of statements on some level, and I just can't take it seriously.

First of all, when you start equating abortion to genocide, it really ignores a lot about what genocide is and what it entails. I have been reading some of Danial Jonah Goldhagen, and he studies and writes about genocide (his family was in the Holocaust). Genocide is in essence carrying out one's hate. It's committed against a group because you believe they threaten to your own group. The underlying cause of bigotry and hate is fearing a group of people. Genocide involves overkilling the targeted group. History sees targeted groups killed in the most horrific and brutal ways. The deaths are unnecessarily brutal, as they are a manifestation of hate.

When I think of somebody killing prisoners at Auschwitz, I don't even think that that is how Andre Yates felt when she killed her kids. I don't consider what she did as genocide or an act of hate towards the children. She killed five kids. It's truly disturbing, but I don't really think of her her mental state was like a guard at Auschwitz fearing and hating her kids, thinking they threatened her status, way of life, etc. I can think of a few other people in the news for killing their kids, and I don't think genocide or hate was the underlying cause. I also think going from Auschwitz to killing your own kids to having an abortion is another leap. I really don't think abortion is hate and genocide. I believe all three categories of killing are different and involves a different mindset.

(I did say killing, it wasn't an accident. I don't take pro life philosophy seriously.)

Secondly, there is a difference between a five year old and a unborn baby. I am not comfortable with late term abortion, so I would say embryo to be more precise on "unborn baby." Killing a five year old and having an abortion is not the same. I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. I am personally pro-life, but this is another crinkle in pro-life philosophy.

Using this line of reasoning prevents you from admitting the identity of the female plays a role. Her identity, well being, mental state, physical health, and how she feels about carrying a pregnancy to term actually plays a role in how she feels about her pregnancy. That is not a factor when you have a five year old.

A females identity deeply matters to her when she is raped, when is having a health issue, or when her life is in danger. I have absolutely no problem with abortion in those situations. If you say abortion is murder, then you put yourself in the corner... why should a rape victim get to murder an innocent baby... why should a baby be executed for somebody else committing the crime of rape? This thinking is exactly why we get news stories like the Catholic pope excommunicating people for helping a 12 year old girl get an abortion after being raped.

In closing, I don't take pro life philosophy seriously. When I hear pro lifers use such language, it doesn't really make me see things from their perspective. Instead, it makes think they are committed to a flawed philosophy and incapable of having a conversation.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect you to take something seriously when you have such a distorted view of said subject. What a load of idiotic nonsense. :roll:
 
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