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Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option...

radcen

radcen

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Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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Each side has its propaganda.
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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As I responded in your other thread, I might as well balance it out, though I am loath to enter the abortion fray in general.

They call it that because that's what they believe it is. Which, I'd have to think, is why they're against it.
 
Harshaw said:
As I responded in your other thread, I might as well balance it out, though I am loath to enter the abortion fray in general.

They call it that because that's what they believe it is. Which, I'd have to think, is why they're against it.
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I had a harder time coming up with this question, as I do believe this is probably closer to what people on this side truly believe, but I wanted a balance so I did my best.
 
radcen said:
:)

Agreed. And that may be part of the problem. Said propaganda only really serves to drive the two sides even farther apart.
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There's a fundamental difference in the two groups and how they see life, I don't think it's reconcilable, and neither side moves to reconcile it. I get drawn into the abortion forum from time to time, and every time I think myself an idiot for having done so. I try my best to stay out, but it doesn't always work out.
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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Most anti-abortion people do not.

It is, of course, undeniably a killing act regardless of technicalities of age and current stage of life.

Many of us do justly believe this aggressive killing of another human being, objectively a premeditated homicide, should be prosecuted as murder.
 
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Ikari said:
There's a fundamental difference in the two groups and how they see life, I don't think it's reconcilable, and neither side moves to reconcile it. I get drawn into the abortion forum from time to time, and every time I think myself an idiot for having done so. I try my best to stay out, but it doesn't always work out.
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I think the fundamental difference is that one group thinks they should have control over another groups health care options.
 
year2late said:
I think the fundamental difference is that one group thinks they should have control over another groups health care options.
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Abortion rarely has anything to do with healthcare.
 
JayDubya said:
Abortion rarely has anything to do with healthcare.
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It is a healthcare decision. Just like multiple decisions one may make pregnancy is continued. Abortion is a healthcare option. Whether or not abortion is done for serious medical condition is not in question,
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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I dont think "most" people use those terms, especially the murder one thats just illogical. A few do, they are part of the problem just the extremist on the otherside.
 
JayDubya said:
Most anti-abortion people do not.

It is, of course, undeniably a killing act regardless of technicalities of age and current stage of life.

Many of us do justly believe this aggressive killing of another human being, objectively a premeditated homicide, should be prosecuted as murder.
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Perfect example of lies, propaganda and a extremist stance that is NOT shared by all of pro-life.
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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Because the words have a greater emotional impact. It's easier than logic.
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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You might replace 'most people' with 'most Americans'. Here in Sweden abortion simply does not figure as a political issue. I cannot remember having seen any extreme emotional propaganda. Most Swedes - me included - think the best way to reduce the number of abortions is thorough birth control education in schools. It works; the teenage pregnancy rate is very low.
 
Sweden said:
You might replace 'most people' with 'most Americans'. Here in Sweden abortion simply does not figure as a political issue. I cannot remember having seen any extreme emotional propaganda. Most Swedes - me included - think the best way to reduce the number of abortions is thorough birth control education in schools. It works; the teenage pregnancy rate is very low.
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The question was phrased through an Ameri-centric point-of-view, yes.
 
JayDubya said:
Most anti-abortion people do not.

It is, of course, undeniably a killing act regardless of technicalities of age and current stage of life.

Many of us do justly believe this aggressive killing of another human being, objectively a premeditated homicide, should be prosecuted as murder.
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And we are all grateful that laws are not made based on such ignorant and uneducated reasons.
 
year2late said:
I think the fundamental difference is that one group thinks they should have control over another groups health care options.
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Hello one of those people that Ikari is clearly talking about. If that's your opinion of what the "fundamental difference" is with regards to how they see life, it's abundantly clear you either have no desire to honestly understand the view point of the other side or you are just acting like you're ignorant of it.

The fundamental difference Ikari is clearly talking about is whether or not the fetus should be considered a child with the typical rights associated with such.

Most of those on the pro-choice side do not believe it is, and as such the woman's rights almost universally override the rights of the fetus.

Most of those on the pro-life side do believe it is, and as such the woman's rights are almost universally secondary to the fetus's right to life, since said right in an innocent being is almost always considered the highest as it relates to the law.

In both cases, the individuals policy views are rather consistent with their view regarding that fundamental issue.
 
Zyphlin said:
Hello one of those people that Ikari is clearly talking about. If that's your opinion of what the "fundamental difference" is with regards to how they see life, it's abundantly clear you either have no desire to honestly understand the view point of the other side or you are just acting like you're ignorant of it.

The fundamental difference Ikari is clearly talking about is whether or not the fetus should be considered a child with the typical rights associated with such.

Most of those on the pro-choice side do not believe it is, and as such the woman's rights almost universally override the rights of the fetus.

Most of those on the pro-life side do believe it is, and as such the woman's rights are almost universally secondary to the fetus's right to life, since said right in an innocent being is almost always considered the highest as it relates to the law.

In both cases, the individuals policy views are rather consistent with their view regarding that fundamental issue.
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What I am saying is that within the prochoice group there are people who disagree with abortion. That group differs from the pro-life group in that they do not believe they have the right to impose that point of view on others.

I was not speaking to any fundamental differences.

Pro-choice allows for a choice to be no. Pro-life essentially demands no choice at all.

Pro-choice allows for an individual to have their own philosophy of life/viability/etc and to accept that another's philosophy may be drastically different.


Put it this way, I am against abortion and when I was put to the test, I did not have an abortion. The only circumstance I would have been ok with abortion for myself is if I would have died along with the fetus if an abortion did not occur.

Do you consider me pro-life based on that statement?
 
year2late said:
What I am saying is that within the prochoice group there are people who disagree with abortion. That group differs from the pro-life group in that they do not believe they have the right to impose that point of view on others.

I was not speaking to any fundamental differences.
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If you were not speaking to any fundamental differences, then why did you start your post with:

year2late said:
I think the fundamental difference is
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And I have issue accepting the "I was talking about a subsection of the prochoice group compared to the pro-life people" argument. The post you were quoting did not break it down into some small subsection, your post did not pair it down to some subsection, it was only after your assertion was called out that you've suddenly tried to rephrase it in a different fashion.

And no, that is not a FUNDAMENTAL difference between the two. If it is, then pro-choice individuals would feel the same way with regards to child abuse laws as they do about abortion...it's the parent's "choice" and we (the public) have no right to "impose" our point of view on that upon someone else.

But that's not the fundamental different, because by and large most people who are politically pro-choice have no issue with laws regarding child abuse, child neglect, and things like that. Just as it can't be said that fundamentally, those who are politically pro-life fundamentally believe the government should decide on peoples health care, since there are a variety of instances where that is likely not the case with those people.

When talking about the FUNDAMENTAL difference between the two groups, it entirely comes down to how they feel the law should view the fetus as it relates to rights. That is the delineating line between the two sides and is the ultimate arbiter for how they form their political views. And in both instances, those views are generally pretty logically consistent with that view.

As to your questions, based on what you've been saying, I'd suggest you're a predominantly pro-choice person who personally decided against having an abortion.
 
Sweden said:
You might replace 'most people' with 'most Americans'. Here in Sweden abortion simply does not figure as a political issue. I cannot remember having seen any extreme emotional propaganda. Most Swedes - me included - think the best way to reduce the number of abortions is thorough birth control education in schools. It works; the teenage pregnancy rate is very low.
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Interesting statistics here.
International Comparison '.org': International Teen Pregnancy Statistics

In fact the countries with the most sex education for kids seems to have high pregnancy rates. So I think culture must play a strong role in that.

I'm sure not throwing stones though. The USA has an abysmal record even though sex education is pushed strongly here.
 
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Zyphlin said:
If you were not speaking to any fundamental differences, then why did you start your post with:



And I have issue accepting the "I was talking about a subsection of the prochoice group compared to the pro-life people" argument. The post you were quoting did not break it down into some small subsection, your post did not pair it down to some subsection, it was only after your assertion was called out that you've suddenly tried to rephrase it in a different fashion.

And no, that is not a FUNDAMENTAL difference between the two. If it is, then pro-choice individuals would feel the same way with regards to child abuse laws as they do about abortion...it's the parent's "choice" and we (the public) have no right to "impose" our point of view on that upon someone else.

But that's not the fundamental different, because by and large most people who are politically pro-choice have no issue with laws regarding child abuse, child neglect, and things like that. Just as it can't be said that fundamentally, those who are politically pro-life fundamentally believe the government should decide on peoples health care, since there are a variety of instances where that is likely not the case with those people.

When talking about the FUNDAMENTAL difference between the two groups, it entirely comes down to how they feel the law should view the fetus as it relates to rights. That is the delineating line between the two sides and is the ultimate arbiter for how they form their political views. And in both instances, those views are generally pretty logically consistent with that view.

As to your questions, based on what you've been saying, I'd suggest you're a predominantly pro-choice person who personally decided against having an abortion.
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My apologies. I got confused as to which thread I was in. I had an earlier response in a thread about women opposing abortion and continued on that train of thought - I was speaking to why a woman who is individually against abortion can be (or is)considered pro-choice.

I get the confusion.

In the case I was speaking to the difference is a pro-choicer that is individually against abortion fundamentally is different from a pro-lifer who is wants that POV made into law for other women.
 
Zyphlin said:
As to your questions, based on what you've been saying, I'd suggest you're a predominantly pro-choice person who personally decided against having an abortion.
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I decided against abortion in the same way a pro-choicer or pro-lifer "decides" against abortion. For example. Sarah Palin (staunch pro-life) indicated she decided against abortion. Was abortion ever really a choice for her? Really? Well in the same way, it was never a choice for me either. I was put to the test and my personal beliefs passed muster.

Again, the difference is that as a pro-choicer....I do not believe that I should inflict my personal philosophical belief on another persons health care decisions.
 
radcen said:
Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option use terms like 'murder' and 'baby killing' when talking about abortion?
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Because we see it as the willful termination of a human life. If you willfully killed your little sister, would that not be construed as being murder??? Pro-abortion supporters want to ignore this part of the discussion by reducing a human life to terms like "blob of tissue" or "fetus" but we see this as a "child".
 
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