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Why do most people who do not favor legalized abortion as an option...

minnie616 said:
As I posted it was not culture that prevented teen pregnancies but rather the '" booming " economy that allowed middle class parents to send their pregnant daughters off to unwed homes to give birth and then give up the child to be adopted through no choice of the teen mother. The teen was not given a choice.
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I believe a culture of personal responsibility and expectations of what responsible people do was a huge factor in preventing teen pregnancies. Out of wedlock adult pregnancies as well. You can argue until the cows come home citing every pro-abortion source you can find, and you won't change my mind about that.

The 60's with the Hippie generation and their 'free love' and 'make love not war' slogans was when it started changing. That was the very first generation to totally reject the culture of their parents, grand parents, etc. and that was when modern day American liberalism came to the forefront. So what happened in the 60's is not a good example to convince me that I'm wrong about this.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I believe a culture of personal responsibility and expectations of what responsible people do was a huge factor in preventing teen pregnancies. Out of wedlock adult pregnancies as well. You can argue until the cows come home citing every pro-abortion source you can find, and you won't change my mind about that.

The 60's with the Hippie generation and their 'free love' and 'make love not war' slogans was when it started changing. That was the very first generation to totally reject the culture of their parents, grand parents, etc. and that was when modern day American liberalism came to the forefront. So what happened in the 60's is not a good example to convince me that I'm wrong about this.
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There were shot gun weddings or the teen was rushed off and hidden until she came back without the baby in the middle and upperclass families during the 50s and and 60s.

That was a sign of what money can hide...not culture.

Many of the poor in the 50s and 60s ...24 percent black unwed teens and over 3 percent of the white teens ended up keeping their babies and raising them as a single mom.
 
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minnie616 said:
Teen abortions are revelvavt.
Teen deaths from teen abortions are reverent.

I went to high school n the 60s.

Teen pregnancies , teen abortions, and parents forcing their teen daughter's into homes for the unwed where they gave the child up for adoption after birth were not as uncommon as you would like to believe.

In fact the sisters ran a home for unwed mother's and adoption agency just a few miles from our home.


From


The children they gave away - Salon.com
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Not a fun situations.for those young girls, I'm sure BUT at least the babies are alive! God willing.
 
minnie616 said:
There were shot gun weddings or the teen was rushed off and hidden until she came back without the baby in the middle and upperclass families during the 50s and and 60s.

That was a sign of what money can hide...not culture.

Many of the poor in the 50s and 60s ...24 percent black unwed teens and over 3 percent of the white teens ended up keeping their babies and raising them as a single mom.
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But unwed mothers were very rare in the 50's and at least early 60's. Again you can cite all the statistics in the world and you aren't going to change my mind on this one.
 
AlbqOwl said:
But unwed mothers were very rare in the 50's and at least early 60's. Again you can cite all the statistics in the world and you aren't going to change my mind on this one.
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Look up baby scoop era.
 
AlbqOwl said:
But unwed mothers were very rare in the 50's and at least early 60's. Again you can cite all the statistics in the world and you aren't going to change my mind on this one.
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Most history students become familiar with the sexual and familial changes of the mid-twentieth century in a revised context. Marriage and natalism gave the impression of wide-scale fertility, but infertility drove more couples than ever to seek children. At the same time, a sexual revolution without birth control led to a boom in illegitimate white babies. Out-of-wedlock pregnancy and birth carried great shame for both mother and child. Social workers found the perfect solution for the growing problems of illegitimacy and infertility: adoption. The period from 1945 to 1973 marked a massive swell in adoptions cloaked in secrecy and shame, a dark period in history known to few but those who experienced it. The Baby Scoop Era forever changed a generation of mothers and adoptees.

Smashed by Adoption (Baby Scoop Era)
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...........
 
prometeus said:
No, I am already familiar with it and clearly you prefer ignorance over being informed.
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I am not at all uninformed. It is simply irrelevant to the argument I have been making.
 
RamFel said:
Not a fun situations.for those young girls, I'm sure BUT at least the babies are alive! God willing.
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Yes, some of the stuff that went on back there was draconian and I don't support or approve of it in the least. I was actually on the forefront objecting to a lot of it. But those writing about it who were part of it are alive. These days they likely never would have lived to be able to complain about it.

Promoting postponing sex until there is a ring and a date, making out of wedlock births something to be avoided, etc. is NOT the same thing as promoting all the terrible stuff from time past. That is the mistake the pro-abortion crowd makes with somebody like me. They argue it as an either-or situation, but it doesn't have to be that way and no doubt wouldn't be that way now.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Still completely misses the point I have been making.
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You have been making "a" point that ethics/morality was a deterrent to unplanned pregnancy, that only goes so far....and cannot be reversed, we cannot go back in time. We know what the solution is, education and access to contraception. It is rather pointless to expect going back to a different age, humans don't do that. The over-riding point is whether you can move forward while looking backwards.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You have been making "a" point that ethics/morality was a deterrent to unplanned pregnancy, that only goes so far....and cannot be reversed, we cannot go back in time. We know what the solution is, education and access to contraception. It is rather pointless to expect going back to a different age, humans don't do that. The over-riding point is whether you can move forward while looking backwards.
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No, I have been making an argument that the American CULTURE once was a deterrent to single parenthood and/or situations that call for abortion in our modern day culture. I have said nothing about unplanned pregnancies. I have two wonderful kids but neither one of them was planned. Nor was the one we lost via miscarriage. I didn't want to be pregnant when I got pregnant either time, but at that time, in that culture, it would have been unthinkable to have sought an abortion. And I am exceedingly grateful for it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
No, I have been making an argument that the American CULTURE once was a deterrent to single parenthood and/or situations that call for abortion in our modern day culture.
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You are LYING now, I specifically quoted you in a conversation about morality, sex ed and contraception:

Not necessarily. There are few schools in the United States in which sex ed is not a requisite course but we have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates. But back where sex before marriage, or certainly sex before you were engaged to be married, was frowned on, and couples living together before marriage just wasn't done, and having kids out of wedlock was socially disapproved everywhere--and the closest thing we had to sex ed was biology class--teen pregnancies were quite rare. And any school board member or principle or teacher who advocated passing out free condoms to kids would have been ridden out of town on a rail.

Culture is more important than sex ed from the way I look at it.


Now if you can't remember what you were discussing, then use the link in your quote to go back TO THAT DISCUSSION.

I have said nothing about unplanned pregnancies.
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Again, this is just intellectually dishonest, contraception is to prevent unplanned pregnancies, abortion is used to end unplanned pregnancies. Stop lying.
I have two wonderful kids but neither one of them was planned.
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And in your next breath, you discuss unplanned pregnancies directly, good grief.
Nor was the one we lost via miscarriage. I didn't want to be pregnant when I got pregnant either time, but at that time, in that culture, it would have been unthinkable to have sought an abortion. And I am exceedingly grateful for it.
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I couldn't care less, you are just purposely diverting our conversation.

If you want fewer abortions, argue for education and access to contraception....and stop the expectation of turning back the clock.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You have been making "a" point that ethics/morality was a deterrent to unplanned pregnancy...
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Bullying is never a good solution and that was her point. What she does not realize is that it can and does take countless forms and social pressure and shaming are among them.
 
AlbqOwl said:
If it is important to you, you look it up. :)
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From:

What was the “Baby Scoop Era”?

The Baby Scoop Era was a period in United States history starting after the end of World War II and ending in approximately 1972, characterized by an increased rate of premarital pregnancies over the preceding period, along with a higher rate of newborn adoption. From approximately 1940 to 1970, it is estimated that up to 4 million mothers in the United States surrendered newborn babies to adoption; 2 million during the 1960s alone. Annual numbers for non-relative adoptions increased from an estimated 33,800 in 1951 to a peak of 89,200 in 1970, then quickly declined to an estimated 47,700 in 1975 (This does not include the number of infants adopted and raised by relatives. [/B]

<snip>

, “In most cases, adoption was presented to the mothers as the only option and little or no effort was made to help the mothers keep and raise the children.”
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What was the “Baby Scoop Era”? | Baby Scoop Era Research Initiative
 
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AlbqOwl said:
No, I have been making an argument that the American CULTURE once was a deterrent to single parenthood and/or situations that call for abortion in our modern day culture.
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And a filed argument it still remains as evidence clearly shows. Then again, choosing ignorance over facts is not unusual when facts counter one's narrative, ideology or agenda.

I have said nothing about unplanned pregnancies. I have two wonderful kids but neither one of them was planned. Nor was the one we lost via miscarriage. I didn't want to be pregnant when I got pregnant either time, but at that time, in that culture, it would have been unthinkable to have sought an abortion. And I am exceedingly grateful for it.
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Anecdotal evidence is just that and does not in the least support your argument.
 
AlbqOwl said:
But unwed mothers were very rare in the 50's and at least early 60's. Again you can cite all the statistics in the world and you aren't going to change my mind on this one.
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If they were so rare, why were there homes for them?

I thought you said you were willing to change your stance if you were convinced you were wrong?
 
Scrabaholic said:
If they were so rare, why were there homes for them?

I thought you said you were willing to change your stance if you were convinced you were wrong?
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And once more, you and other pro-abortionists are arguing what I have not argued and are missing the point I have been making.
 
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