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Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned![W:134]

Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

So what you are saying in a case that had nothign to do with oath (the conversation I am having) FIVE judges upheld RvW and do not agree with the opinion it has no basis in the constitution. So where's the oath part and the part that is "that simple" Listen I WANT it to be simple but the reality is, it's not. All evidence proves that.

I never discussed any oath. I am not sure what you are trying to say.

I don't know what, specifically, you are claiming is not simple. It is simple enough for the Supreme Court to overrule one of its decisions, as it has done many times. Stare decisis is not a sacrosanct doctrine. It can either be ignored, when a majority on the Court wants a change, or piously held up as an excuse not to make a change, when the majority does not want one.

The Court has sometimes overruled a decision on the sly--the legal term is sub silentio--as it did, for example, in Boumedience v. Bush. The Court in that case, while lacking the integrity to admit what it was doing, overruled Johnson v. Eisentrager. In that superbly reasoned 1950 decision, the Court had held that Nazi war criminals the U.S. was detaining overseas did not have any constitutional right to file habeas petitions in U.S. courts contesting their detention. That just wouldn't do for the justices on the Boumediene Court who were determined to carry water for the unlawful enemy combatants detained at Guantanamo.

In other cases, the Court has openly overruled a decision, for example in Lawrence v. Texas. In that case, it overruled Bowers v. Hardwick, the Court's first "gay" decision from seventeen years earlier, in striking down a Texas law against homosexual sodomy. Even there, the Court was disingenuous. It said is was overruling Bowers, which had upheld a similar Georgia law; and yet it was careful not to disturb Bowers' central holding: that there was no constitutional right to engage in homosexual sodomy.
 
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Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

anything could be overturned or made law wiht enough support but abortion dosent seem wrong to me so i dont thinck roe vs wade should be


It's not a matter of whether it should be.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

So it will be left up to the states. The deep red ones like texas already lead in teen pregnancy. No one will catch them then. Not to mention the needless deaths and misery from "illegal" abortions. Cons will be overjoyed.


Not as worse as having a legalized slaughter of the unborn.

Sacrificing 9 months to deliver a baby and giving him up for adoption, doesn't sound such a bad idea when you've made a grave mistake that resulted in an unwanted pregnancy. Furthermore, there's always the chance that mom will change her mind and opt to keep and raise her baby herself. It happened so many times before.


If the woman would want to take the risk of dying or being permanently maimed in a botched illegal abortion - hey, that, "it's her body, it's her choice" - should fit nicely in that scenario.

It's not like as if we're living in the 1900's. We've got all sorts of pregnancy prevention methods now, and all sorts of information out there advising people to prevent getting STD and unwanted pregnancy. Not only are women still having unwanted pregnancy.....but so many of them, are having repeat-unwanted pregnancy!
You'd think they'd learned a lesson from the first one! What more can we do? :shrug:
 
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Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Please provide a legitimate source that proves that the S.C. Is no longer willing to support abortion as a right since PP vs C.

Abortion as a "right" was described in what manner in the Roe v Wade decision? It's easy to find the Court's decision - as well as copying and pasting how such a right was explained in the Court's decision.


If it's a "right," just like you say it is.....Clinton, Trump and the moderator doesn't agree with you.

If there is no way it can be changed....the moderator would've pointed it out in his question.....and Clinton would've stated it as a rebuttal!
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

The court would have to be significantly stacked and corrupted for Roe v Wade to be tossed out, which would mean that SCOTUS as a democratic balance of power is lost.

It's significantly stacked up now and corrupted thus, RvW hasn't been tossed out!
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

doubt it....there are more important issues to address, so at the best overturning it will be sidelined indefinitely..
Despite all the promises in recent decades, the issue has not been seriously considered.

Agreed.
Also there were several right to privacy precedents set before Roe v Wade.
The more precedents, the harder it is to overturn a SC ruling.

It will be extremely hard to overturn Roe without also striking down the precedents of right to privacy cases before Roe including right to privacy regarding child rearing rights , such asthe right for parents to send their children to private or religious schools instead of public schools.

These most likely would become dismantled if Roe v Wade were overturned.

Weems v. United States (1910)
In a case from the Philippines, the Supreme Court finds that the definition of "cruel and unusual punishment" is not limited to what the authors of the Constitution understood under that concept.

Meyer v. Nebraska (1923)
A case ruling that parents may decide for themselves if and when their children may learn a foreign language, based upon a fundamental liberty interest individuals have in the family unit.

Pierce v. Society of Sisters (1925)

A case deciding that parents may not be forced to send their children to public rather than private schools, based on the idea that, once again, parents have a fundamental liberty in deciding what happens to their children.

Olmstead v. United States (1928)

The court decides that wire tapping is legal, no matter what the reason or motivation, because it is not expressly prohibited in the Constitution. Justice Brandeis' dissent, however, lays the groundwork for future understandings of privacy.

Skinner v. Oklahoma (1942)
An Oklahoma law providing for the sterilization of people found to be "habitual criminals" is struck down, based on idea that all people have a fundamental right to make their own choices about marriage and procreation.

Tileston v. Ullman (1943) & Poe v. Ullman (1961)

The Court refuses to hear a case on Connecticut laws prohibiting the sale of contraceptives because no one can demonstrate they have been harmed. Harlan's dissent in Poe, however, explains why the case should be reviewed and why fundamental privacy interests are at stake.

Griswold v. Connecticut (1965)
Connecticut's laws against distribution of contraceptives and contraceptive information to married couples are struck down, with the Court relying on earlier precedent involving the rights of people to make decisions about their families and procreation as a legitimate sphere of privacy.

Loving v. Virginia (1967)
Virginia law against interracial marriages is struck down, with the Court once again declaring that marriage is a "fundamental civil right" and that decisions in this arena are not those with which the State can interefere unless they have good cause.

Eisenstadt v. Baird (1972)

The right of people to have and know about contraceptives is expanded to unmarried couples, because the right of people to make such decisions exists due not simply to the nature of the marriage relationship. Instead, it is also due to the fact that it is individuals making these decisions, and as such the government has no business making it for them, regardless of their marital status.

Roe v. Wade (1973)
The landmark decision which established that women have a basic right to have an abortion, this was based in many ways upon the earlier decisions above. Through the above cases, the Supreme Court developed the idea that the Constitution protects a person's to privacy, particularly when it comes to matters involving children and procreation.
 
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Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Hmm, this could be interesting. As a prolifer I have never heard that before. Here's the constitutional and judicial oath:


How do you apply that oath to relate to RvW?


"I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons,
and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as _________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States; and that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

So help me God."






If it is that simple why does RvW exist, has existed for almost 50 years and hasn't been overturned?



The liberal climate - specifically the influence of a powerful Feminist movement - had made it so that the oath was compromised by the stacked left-leaning judges, and fearful politicians who are more concerned about votes!
Common sense had left the building ages ago!
 
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Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

If the Supreme Court were to overrule Roe, as I think it may during Mr. Trump's presidency, its position would have to be good enough, whatever your view may be. If abortion were no longer a constitutional issue, each state would be free to allow abortion on demand; to prohibit abortion entirely; or to do anything between those two extremes. What you personally think a state must do regarding abortion would matter only in your own state, and then only if the majority of your state's voters agreed with you.

When they overturn RvW.....I hope they do something to protect the unborn in the future, against anyone from trying to undo what they'd done.

They have to make sure that abortion - and killing of the unborn - will never become legal again.

The same unmovable protection should cover all vulnerable and defenseless people (the disabled, the mentally challenged, etc.,)
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

yes it is

Let me re-phrase that: it's not a matter whether you think it should be.

It's about doing the right thing. Upholding the Constitution.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Not as worse as having a legalized slaughter of the unborn.

Sacrificing 9 months to deliver a baby and giving him up for adoption, doesn't sound such a bad idea when you've made a grave mistake that resulted in an unwanted pregnancy. Furthermore, there's always the chance that mom will change her mind and opt to keep and raise her baby herself. It happened so many times before.


If the woman would want to take the risk of dying or being permanently maimed in a botched illegal abortion - hey, that, "it's her body, it's her choice" - should fit nicely in that scenario.

It's not like as if we're living in the 1900's. We've got all sorts of pregnancy prevention methods now, and all sorts of information out there advising people to prevent getting STD and unwanted pregnancy. Not only are women still having unwanted pregnancy.....but so many of them, are having repeat-unwanted pregnancy!
You'd think they'd learned a lesson from the first one! What more can we do? :shrug:

um yes it seems worse the unborn are not a higher form of life then animals we slaughter by the millions while women have minds like yours
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Let me re-phrase that: it's not a matter whether you think it should be.

It's about doing the right thing. Upholding the Constitution.

while the right thign and the Constitution may not always be the same i guess it is right for judges to uphold it

what part of the Constitution makes abortion iligal?
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Let me re-phrase that: it's not a matter whether you think it should be.

It's about doing the right thing. Upholding the Constitution.

Well, if you want to discuss laws and the Constitution... firstly, no one has the right to tell someone else what they can do to their body, and since fetuses have no rights at all under the Constitution, they are completely irrelevant to the equation. Now, are you SURE you want to discuss this from a Constitutional perspective? In order to make abortion illegal, laws will have to enacted. Either fetuses will need to be given rights, or the right of privacy will need to be altered. The latter will never happen. Only hope those who want to end abortion have is to go with the former.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

while the right thign and the Constitution may not always be the same i guess it is right for judges to uphold it

what part of the Constitution makes abortion iligal?

People seems to forget the constitution uses the word ''person'' throughout and never the word ''human'' thus the constitution only applies to persons not humans. Humans can be persons though depending on the criteria.

Your founding fathers left the word ''person'' undefined in the constitution for a good reason of which I went through plenty of times when I was actively debating the topic on this site (extraterrestrial life, artificial intelligence, maybe angels and gods etc.)

We discussed it before and it went pretty well. :)

Only a very handful of pro lifers I talked to about this were open up to the idea of ET and AI's being considered persons under the constitution.
 
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Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Yes it can!

If overturning Roe vs Wade is not possible.....why would this be asked in the presidential election debate?











Stare Decisis and Roe v. Wade - ProfessorBainbridge.com




Notice how Hillary Clinton didn't fire back to Trump, "No, you can't! It's done."
Clinton should know, after all she's a lawyer!


The only reason why Roe v Wade is still around is due to the fact that sitting judges are left-leaning, and politicians are afraid to say boo! They're afraid to rock the boat. And liberals try to make us believe, into thinking that RvW is final and binding!

It's not!


Of course it can be overturned. The only type of court case that cannot be overturned is a jury trial in which the jury acquits a defendant. The likely hood though of RvW being overturned though imo is very low as it would interfere with the right to privacy. Which is what the RvW ruling is about.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

There is no "right to privacy." The government has limited powers to do anything which gives us that de facto, but the entire notion as "privacy" as an explicit Constitutional right is a fiction, a sham, a house of cards, and we need a Supreme Court to make it all fall down.

It'd be nice for abortion to be banned nationally, but the Constitution doesn't give the feds authority to do that. It took an amendment to ban slavery, and this human rights abuse, so utterly similar in every other regard, should be banned the same way.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

It could be overturned but I doubt it. If it does I will probably start a non-profit that will transport poor women in states where it is outlawed to free states where they can obtain one.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

There is no "right to privacy."

Not for the Statists no!

There truly is no point in having such a vast security apparatus, Prison and court system as you do in the US, if you can't use it to hound the women of the country, I mean where's the fun otherwise?

"Oh Lucy, you had a miscarriage did you? Spread those legs, small governments coming in to investigate..."

10432150.jpg
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Not for the Statists no!

Not for anyone who lives in reality, nor not for anyone who can read plain English.

If you're self-excluding from that list, I'm not entirely surprised.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Not for anyone who lives in reality.

Are you having trouble again comprehending what your views would actually do to women?

Remember ladies, we at Small Government Inc. Won't protect the baby we forced you to have from lead poisoning in your water, but we will sure as **** investigate you if you have a miscarriage if you don't pass the governments religious sniff test, because well... hell... What's the fun otherwise?
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Are you having trouble again comprehending what your views would actually do to women?

Nothing, except for those who kill their kids, which would be a good thing, as it would involve punishing a violent and aggressive person for killing another human being, something gender equitists who favor human rights want... and female supremacists like yourself don't.

And I don't really care what bigoted female supremacists want. :shrug:
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Nothing, except for those who kill their kids

Yes your concern for the kids is well noted by your desire to see Lucy's up and down the country die while pregnant because they didn't have enough money to satisfy the strict $ value the society you wish to propagate has placed upon their lives.
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Well, if you want to discuss laws and the Constitution... firstly, no one has the right to tell someone else what they can do to their body, and since fetuses have no rights at all under the Constitution, they are completely irrelevant to the equation. Now, are you SURE you want to discuss this from a Constitutional perspective? In order to make abortion illegal, laws will have to enacted. Either fetuses will need to be given rights, or the right of privacy will need to be altered. The latter will never happen. Only hope those who want to end abortion have is to go with the former.

I can't say I know much about the Constitution, but there is such a thing called fetal rights.

Fetal rights are moral rights or legal rights of human fetuses under natural and civil law. The term fetal rights came into wide usage after the landmark case Roe v. Wade that legalized abortion in the United States in 1973.[1] The concept of fetal rights has evolved to include the issues of maternal drug and alcohol abuse.[2]
The only international treaty specifically tackling the fetal rights is the American Convention on Human Rights which envisages the fetal right to life. While international human rights instruments lack a universal inclusion of a fetus as a person for the purposes of human rights, fetus is granted various rights in the constitutions and civil codes of several countries. Many legal experts recognize an increasing need to settle the legal status of the fetus.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_rights


I don't know if it will hold water....nor do I know how exactly they'll go about overturning RvW. But what I do know is that RvW is not binding, otherwise they wouldn't be talking about overturning it!



The US is in line with the UN......well, back in 1959, the fetus had enjoyed the same rights under the UN Declaration of Rights of a Child. It's been revoked due to feminism! What kind of codes do we have if they can change at anytime? We can't take away rights away from anyone at the whim of whoever has power!
 
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I can't say I know much about the Constitution, but there is such a thing called fetal rights.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_rights


I don't know if it will hold water....nor do I know how exactly they'll go about overturning RvW. But what I do know is that RvW is not binding, otherwise they wouldn't be talking about overturning it!

so overturning rvw may not be the right thing for the court to do
 
Re: Roe vs Wade Can Be Overturned!

Nothing, except for those who kill their kids, which would be a good thing, as it would involve punishing a violent and aggressive person for killing another human being, something gender equitists who favor human rights want... and female supremacists like yourself don't.

And I don't really care what bigoted female supremacists want. :shrug:

So, I am the socialist and the 'Big State' guy around here and I am told by many libertarians that government should be small and should keep the hell out of people's lives. Apparently our very liberty and freedom depends on keeping government out of our lives. And yet, you appear to be advocating that government should be intervening in the personal lives of women who seek out medical advice. How does that work?
 
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