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If abortions are made illegal across the US... [W: 125:344]

If abortions are made illegal across the US, will the numbers of abortions plummett?

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Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Scrabaholic said:
And the person with an STD should not have had unprotected sex, but we still allow them to have the infection treated.
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So the girl can have medical treatment. Sounds fine, if she is insured or the parents pay. What is there against that? Alternatively, the kid could go to foster parents or the girl could have a stipend from the government or private organization to bring the child up. There are a lot of ways to go about mending a stupid mistake, not only the easy way out of killing the only one that is innocent of the stupidity.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

year2late said:
Do you think the numbers of abortions will drastically decrease?
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Yes, most likely because people will be more careful about getting pregnant. But that won't stop abortions entirely.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

If the punishment matches the crime, as in a premeditated and aggressive killing of another human being always carries the harshest category of criminal homicide, then yes.

Regardless, the illegal nature has the benefit of making it more difficult to obtain and less safe and that should give pause. If it doesn't, the lack of safety should at least prevent some recidivism.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

year2late said:
How would you measure?

Making abortion illegal would push all abortions underground.
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How do we measure any sort of illegal activity. We have stats on drug abuse too, and illegal drugs are all underground.

However, the mere fact that the act is illegal would stop some from seeking them. There are those who won't quite "buck the system" sort of thing and others that wouldn't risk their future on some backdoor, illegal surgery. It won't be zero, it was never zero, and likely never will be zero. But something being illegal is a deterrent for some. So overall, the numbers would drop.

Though in the end, to make abortion illegal in total would require an monumental reversal in course by the Courts, and that won't happen, so it's just waxing philosophical.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

jamesrage said:
I yes but at the same time it depends on what the punishment for abortions are. If abortions for example are treated no different than murder(meaning those who are caught can be tried for first degree murder, murder for hire, and etc and punished accordingly) then it would decrease. Most people do not want to go prison for the rest of their life or get the death penalty regardless of how much they want to do the illegal activity. If its just fines or even a light prison sentence then no abortions wouldn't dramatically decrease.
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I have asked this before...how are they going to decide if a woman has aborted? Are we going to have a big brother system? Any woman remotely ambivalent about pregnancy that has a miscarriage is suspect?
Remember, most miscarriages occur before a woman nowhere showing.

What is your vision of how the government would do this?

I think what gets lost is that with all the flippant talk about abortion being for "convenience" the reality is that many women who abort are desparate not to be pregnant (most already have children they are struggling to care for)
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

LowDown said:
Yes, most likely because people will be more careful about getting pregnant. But that won't stop abortions entirely.
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The same people who want RvW reversed also clearly want Planned Parenthood gutted (where many of the uninsured working poor access affordable contraception). The very same people who would love to see any expansion of Medicaid (that would help those working poor women). Sprinkle that perfect storm with a dose of people who fail to support their children.....

The most reliable birth control methods (long term implantable) are financially out of reach for many women.

Women will still have abortions. There would quickly choices available through your local pusher.

The women they "catch" will be the ones where a doctor turns them in after a "questionable" miscarriage. Is that the role you want out health care practioners to take? Is that the big brother world you want to live in?
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Ikari said:
How do we measure any sort of illegal activity. We have stats on drug abuse too, and illegal drugs are all underground.

However, the mere fact that the act is illegal would stop some from seeking them. There are those who won't quite "buck the system" sort of thing and others that wouldn't risk their future on some backdoor, illegal surgery. It won't be zero, it was never zero, and likely never will be zero. But something being illegal is a deterrent for some. So overall, the numbers would drop.

Though in the end, to make abortion illegal in total would require an monumental reversal in course by the Courts, and that won't happen, so it's just waxing philosophical.
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Just a natural question due to all the wet dreams that are occurring over potential scotus appointments,:lamo
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

year2late said:
Just a natural question due to all the wet dreams that are occurring over potential scotus appointments,:lamo
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Nothing will happen with those that will end up reversing RvW. That's a can of worms the Court doesn't want to open.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Ikari said:
Nothing will happen with those that will end up reversing RvW. That's a can of worms the Court doesn't want to open.
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Then the Court are useless worms with zero fidelity to the thing they are charged with protecting.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Ikari said:
Nothing will happen with those that will end up reversing RvW. That's a can of worms the Court doesn't want to open.
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Yup.

Not just for lack of "wanting" ....but it seems to me the biggest hurdle is personhood for the zygote, embryo, or fetus. That is amendment to the constitution territory.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Gaugingcatenate said:
Are you joking?

If abortion was to be made illegal, the OP does not have to specifically say it equals murder. One would have to be without the capability of logical thought not to understand that is exactly what would/must be the consequence. What else would it be if someone plans and then kills their baby, a baby now with legal protections, while still in the womb? Planning to kill someone and then doing it is known as premeditated murder, if you didn't already know.

And those assisting or performing such would also be either accessories to murder or, in the case of abortion doctors, serial murderers risking, as would the mother who premeditatedly kills their child, a murder trial and potentially the death penalty when abortion is made illegal.
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Of course the OP would because making abortion illegal is not the same as making abortion murder by any means. If you want to talk about logic all one has to do is know the history of abortion in this country. Abortion has been illegal before and it was not murder. This is basic common sense. To be made murder more would have to be done that making abortion illegal, history tells us that and its basic common sense. :) Thanks for sharing your assumptions that are not part of the OP though, they don't change anything, they especially don't change any logical thought. The fact is abortion being illegal =/= murder you can't change that fact unless more is added and the OP didn't mention that and liked my posts when I corrected the other wrong poster and you just like I corrected your wrong assumptions now. It's her op. You are free to start your own but I'll be going with history, facts and logical thought over your assumptions and made up parts that are not in the OP.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Part 1
Gaugingcatenate said:
You say you are a prolifer and do not hope, aspire or even consider that RvW will be overturned?
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Thats not what I said at all, why post a lie when my post history is here that proves you wrong. Maybe you should ask me instead of wrongly assuming next time.
Gaugingcatenate said:
I call BS on you being a pro-lifer then.
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You can call whatever you like, you have no ability to determine what I am. I belong to two prolife groups how many do you belong to? but I'll let them know that some wanna be tough guy who is uneducated about the topic on the internet says I'm not pro life. It's a fact I'm a prolifer :lamo

Gaugingcatenate said:
A prolifer does not argue for the other side and against its own side. You were also probably one of the naive too many that thought Trump would never win much less achieve a landslide Electoral College victory, eh?
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What are you talking about? argue foe the "other side" against its "own side" Please explain what the other side is and what my side is. are you suggesting that all prolifers must agree on everything like sheep? no thanks I like facts and when it comes to things that are opinion Ill form my own. I like how that seems to make you angry for some reason though, how funny and weird at the same time.

Gaugingcatenate said:
Probably have not considered, or do not know, that along with the entire Federal government, including likely the Supreme Court if Trump gets another chance at an appointment of beyond the one Justice currently, that Republicans control of 30 out of 50 governorships and 68 out of 99 state legislative houses. That is majority and super majorities everywhere you look.

The pendulum, you see, took its good time but has finally swung back.
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That doesn't change anything being discussed here, and ve been republican or leaned republican my whole life.
Gaugingcatenate said:
By the way, using your own argument against you, "You just can't make stuff up, you didn't write the OP. HAHA"... and as to your point that "There would have to be other rulings, amendments or laws made to make abortion murder", that is just silly nonsense.
The consequence that would occur, by making it illegal, just like their ruling in the case of SSM, that abortion would become the law of the land and if aborting your baby is made illegal it would mean that a mother, planning with her doctor, to kill her living baby inside her body, would be murder. Simple. That would not necessitate any other "amendments" [like that would ever happen, anyhow] nor new laws as murder and premeditated murder are already punishable crimes.
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WRONG, No its a fact, abortion has already been illegal and it was not murder, history lesson for you. But please feel free to think they are equal when they are they are not and history proves that ;)

Gaugingcatenate said:
But what may need occur is making it a crime to publish and advocate for the murder of unborn children as accessories to murder. And, unfortunately, many having natural miscarriages, due to the amount of unscrupulous mothers that will probably still continue to want to kill their babies, will face inquiries about the manner and circumstances that their babies "naturally died". Blame that on the unscrupulous lot that continues to advocate for abortions, legal now but illegal after overturning RvW. Its too bad that must occur and expectant mothers will have to become far more proactive about documenting what they did and did not do during their pregnancies. And with forensics becoming more and more equipped scientifically to ascertain causes of death, women who plan to "naturally kill" their babies will be caught in more increasing numbers sending a deterring message out to those who might otherwise attempt it.
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Again so more would be needed than simply making abortion illegal. Thanks for further proving my point.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Part 2
Gaugingcatenate said:
Another logical consequence is that females might start making more prudent decisions about who they sleep with and whether it is worth it to continue doing so with the scumbags that now are mucking up the place, taking no responsibility and making it tougher for the good type guys to be in proper vogue. .
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Yep I definitely see you have lots of anger
Gaugingcatenate said:
I think we can all be for heading in that direction towards creating better families again.
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I'm all for families, I'm just logical about it and im discussion the actual OP, you are free to start your own thread about other topics if you like. Now that I have disproved your claims I'll be focusing on what you didn't answer earlier. Lastly I have asked you questions in this thread that you didn't answer before you had this hilarious melt down just now. I'll ask them again now.

GEIxBattleRifle said:
Yes it would drastically decrease but abortions will still be done nonetheless. It wouldn't be the 1.2 million that are done legally in your country every year.

This is just merely one way that abortions can be decreased. There are other ways to reduce it as well. Some of which you listed yourself not long ago.
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Where do you get that number from, places like the CDC and other sites haven't had abortions that high since luke 1995 I think and have had abortions dropping since 1990?
Also what do you consider "drastically"?

GEIxBattleRifle said:
So yeah a flat out ban will see the amount of abortions decrease because some women won't take the risk of permanent death especially when they already have kids. Your government can get much more ferocious with sending people off to jail and such for performing "illegal abortions."
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Risk of permanent death? explain.
And now you are saying "some" how do you get to the "drastic" decrease you felt earlier?
Thank You
A Prolifer LW ;)
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

LaylaWindu said:
Of course the OP would because making abortion illegal is not the same as making abortion murder by any means. If you want to talk about logic all one has to do is know the history of abortion in this country. Abortion has been illegal before and it was not murder. This is basic common sense. To be made murder more would have to be done that making abortion illegal, history tells us that and its basic common sense. :) Thanks for sharing your assumptions that are not part of the OP though, they don't change anything, they especially don't change any logical thought. The fact is abortion being illegal =/= murder you can't change that fact unless more is added and the OP didn't mention that and liked my posts when I corrected the other wrong poster and you just like I corrected your wrong assumptions now. It's her op. You are free to start your own but I'll be going with history, facts and logical thought over your assumptions and made up parts that are not in the OP.
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Lady, we know a lot more about the whole thing since it was made illegal. DNA testing started after RvW, and with DNA there is the clear expression that there is DNA of the separate entities of the mother, father and the child.

BTW, I can, and I will, add any logic on the topic I so please. That you enjoy ignoring logic is plain to see, but others so engaged might also be well instructed to ignore posts as logic free as yours.

I have made no wrong assumptions for you to correct. The OP made no mention either way, there was a poll taken and I am, as is my prerogative, expressing my opinion as to why I feel that abortions would plummet. We clear here?

If not, you might want to enlist another adult to explain it to you, maybe? Logic seems to be making no headway with you and I cannot, and choose not to, do anything more over the internet.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

year2late said:
I have asked this before...how are they going to decide if a woman has aborted? Are we going to have a big brother system? Any woman remotely ambivalent about pregnancy that has a miscarriage is suspect?
Remember, most miscarriages occur before a woman nowhere showing.

What is your vision of how the government would do this?
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They can easily prosecute the "doctors" who perform the abortions must the same way stings are set up to catch drug dealers,johns and other criminals by sending in undercover cops seeking an abortion. Anti-abortion groups can probably also assist police in catching these abortion "doctors" much the same way some journalist help catch many other criminals. If a woman never tells anyone she was pregnant, has an abortion and never tells anyone then I suppose she will probably never be caught. Fake underground abortion clinics and fake abortion doctors can be set up to catch women who are soliciting abortions.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Orly? said:
Abortion being illegal = murder
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That is only if abortion is defined as murder under the law once abortion is made illegal.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

jamesrage said:
That is only if abortion is defined as murder under the law once abortion is made illegal.
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Pretty much defining the personhood of unborn humans for it to be considered murder. Or seek the ban and have people seeking/performing illegal abortion to pay a hefty fine if caught.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

joG said:
I don't know. Eagle eggs seem such a noble cause. We are only dealing with humans here, after all.
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I was only using that as an example but you do understand the logic right?
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

jamesrage said:
They can easily prosecute the "doctors" who perform the abortions must the same way stings are set up to catch drug dealers,johns and other criminals by sending in undercover cops seeking an abortion. Anti-abortion groups can probably also assist police in catching these abortion "doctors" much the same way some journalist help catch many other criminals. If a woman never tells anyone she was pregnant, has an abortion and never tells anyone then I suppose she will probably never be caught. Fake underground abortion clinics and fake abortion doctors can be set up to catch women who are soliciting abortions.
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It would be a good way I think to create more jobs in the law enforcement department. Another thing, any woman who gets a abortion and never tells anyone better hide the "remains" pretty well or otherwise she can be tracked down with DNA testing etc.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

LaylaWindu said:
Part 1

Thats not what I said at all, why post a lie when my post history is here that proves you wrong. Maybe you should ask me instead of wrongly assuming next time.
.
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If you did not mean that you were a pro-lifer, explain your way out of your saying that you were. Here is your exact post:

LaylaWindu said:
No and no, why would it? And even as a pro-lifer I know this(abortions becoming illegal) is not going to happen.
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Failure to do this so label your post as one of prevarication, incompetence or both in my book. Sounding very much like Hillary to me. I guess its all a part of the syndrome. It will also show that you are not an honest broker here and I dispense with arguing with those proving so disingenuous.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Orly? said:
They will all go to prison..
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So in your world a woman that is raped should be put in prison for destroying a fetus. Sounds like something out of the Middle East.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

LaylaWindu said:
Part 1

Thats not what I said at all, why post a lie when my post history is here that proves you wrong. Maybe you should ask me instead of wrongly assuming next time.

You can call whatever you like, you have no ability to determine what I am. I belong to two prolife groups how many do you belong to? but I'll let them know that some wanna be tough guy who is uneducated about the topic on the internet says I'm not pro life. It's a fact I'm a prolifer :lamo


What are you talking about? argue foe the "other side" against its "own side" Please explain what the other side is and what my side is. are you suggesting that all prolifers must agree on everything like sheep? no thanks I like facts and when it comes to things that are opinion Ill form my own. I like how that seems to make you angry for some reason though, how funny and weird at the same time.


That doesn't change anything being discussed here, and ve been republican or leaned republican my whole life.

WRONG, No its a fact, abortion has already been illegal and it was not murder, history lesson for you. But please feel free to think they are equal when they are they are not and history proves that ;)


Again so more would be needed than simply making abortion illegal. Thanks for further proving my point.
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These are about the most stupid and ill thought posts I have run across on site...and there is a lot of competition. I will completely skip your posts from now on, they enlighten nobody and are full of half truths, to be charitable.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Casper said:
So in your world a woman that is raped should be put in prison for destroying a fetus. Sounds like something out of the Middle East.
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And I, for one, will wholeheartedly will agree with him. What sounds like it comes out of the Middle East is putting a completely innocent third party to death for something a criminal did to another innocent party. How do you even justify that, or compare a death sentence to that of a mother carrying her child, whether desired or not?

Rhetorical, there is no good answer, so your attempts are doomed to fall short.
 
Re: If abortions are made illegal across the US...

Gaugingcatenate said:
And I, for one, will wholeheartedly will agree with him. What sounds like it comes out of the Middle East is putting a completely innocent third party to death for something a criminal did to another innocent party. How do you even justify that, or compare a death sentence to that of a mother carrying her child, whether desired or not?

Rhetorical, there is no good answer, so your attempts are doomed to fall short.
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A fetus is not a child, hence it is not murder, hence your argument is Nonsense.
 
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