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What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

"Pro-life" means anti-abortion, just like "pro-choice" means pro-abortion.

There is a principle called the consistent life ethic as well; it means being opposed consistently to abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia, and all aggressive war. Folks like this can just go ahead and remove the quotation marks.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Pro life is disagreeing with abortion, regardless of the stage of pregnancy a woman is in.
It's also outlawing all firearms. If u own guns, you're not pro life.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

ScrewPokemonGo said:
It's also outlawing all firearms. If u own guns, you're not pro life.
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Wrong. Owning a weapon violates no one's right to life. Killing in self-defense violates no one's right to life.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

TheGoverness said:
:shrug: I don't know what Celebrity is talking about anymore.
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Celebrity has a vast and known history of posting threads and/or comments that mostly confuse and befuddle the masses.

Think Ontologuy Lite when you think of Celebrity.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Celebrity said:
How does this work with the rest of the thread?
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I responded to the OP not the "rest of the thread"

The same could be said about pro choice, just replace religious dogma with socialist dogma.
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What remote tangency does nationalizing the means of production has to do with anything in this thread or topic?

If pro choice means having all of the facts
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Yes, that is what it means.

and pro life means not having the facts
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Ot ignoring them or misrepresenting them, in effect the same thing.

there won't be much of a debate.
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There should not be one, but stupid people just can stay the hell out of other people's lives.

That's what flaming liberals have, "facts."
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WTF?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

prometeus said:
There should not be one, but stupid people just can stay the hell out of other people's lives.
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So if a man decides to abandon a pregnant woman before she gives birth, do you hold this same position that people should stay the hell out of other peoples lives?

Is it any of your buisiness that a woman got pregnant by an unwilling partner?


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re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

trouble13 said:
So if a man decides to abandon a pregnant woman before she gives birth, do you hold this same position that people should stay the hell out of other peoples lives?

Is it any of your buisiness that a woman got pregnant by an unwilling partner?
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I am not sure what you mean here. Please elaborate so that I may not respond to a mistaken point.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

prometeus said:
I am not sure what you mean here. Please elaborate so that I may not respond to a mistaken point.
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Im guess im wondering if your cosistent about people minding their own buisiness in the context of men who dont want to be fathers but the woman gives birth against his wishes. Do you feel like the gov is entitled to make him pay child support or should that be worked out privately between the parents?

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re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

trouble13 said:
Im guess im wondering if your cosistent about people minding their own buisiness in the context of men who dont want to be fathers but the woman gives birth against his wishes. Do you feel like the gov is entitled to make him pay child support or should that be worked out privately between the parents?
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Thanks for the clarification.

In such a situation my primary concern is for the needs of the infant/child to be met and mandated child support, at least until a better way is found, seems to be the only game.
Ideally, in the cases where the parents do not become a permanent couple would still care about their child and would gladly meet the needs, but sadly that is not the case in most instances, so "enforcement" becomes necessary because the needs of the child do not depend on the amicability of the parents.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

prometeus said:
Thanks for the clarification.

In such a situation my primary concern is for the needs of the infant/child to be met and mandated child support, at least until a better way is found, seems to be the only game.
Ideally, in the cases where the parents do not become a permanent couple would still care about their child and would gladly meet the needs, but sadly that is not the case in most instances, so "enforcement" becomes necessary because the needs of the child do not depend on the amicability of the parents.
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So im just curious how that is fifferent than what you were just being critical of another about. Are you not demanding your gov to mind other peoples buisiness for them?



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re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

trouble13 said:
So im just curious how that is fifferent than what you were just being critical of another about. Are you not demanding your gov to mind other peoples buisiness for them?
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Wouldn't you agree that the government getting involved in the medical decisions of a woman and her body sovereignty is radically different than acting to ensure the welfare and wellbeing of its citizens?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

prometeus said:
Wouldn't you agree that the government getting involved in the medical decisions of a woman and her body sovereignty is radically different than acting to ensure the welfare and wellbeing of its citizens?
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Yes i would but a man choosing to partcipate or not partcipate in parenting does not affect her body in the slightest bit. Would you not agree with that?

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re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

trouble13 said:
Yes i would but a man choosing to partcipate or not partcipate in parenting does not affect her body in the slightest bit. Would you not agree with that?
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Indeed, but at that point it is no longer about him or her but the well being of the child. Would you prefer that the government just subsidize it instead?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

JayDubya said:
"Pro-life" means anti-abortion, just like "pro-choice" means pro-abortion.

There is a principle called the consistent life ethic as well; it means being opposed consistently to abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia, and all aggressive war. Folks like this can just go ahead and remove the quotation marks.
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As you know, I am pro-life, and I am consistent in my beliefs. But I like how those who are pro-choice are presuming to tell others what "pro-life" really means. :roll:
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

prometeus said:
Indeed, but at that point it is no longer about him or her but the well being of the child. Would you prefer that the government just subsidize it instead?
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Of course, the hypothetical government subsidies for child support would be welcome by some, especially the mythical "welfare queen." Women would be getting pregnant over and over for the welfare checks, no doubt. Would you prefer that women abort and therefore lessen the influx of new taxpayers? :roll:

The real question is, why does someone (or something, i.e. the government) pretend to be interested in the welfare of children, and then defer the responsibility of that welfare to a third party. Perhaps that person believes they are above the responsible party in the food chain, and they are simply delegating "authority." But when a law exists that oppresses a class of people, we should ask ourselves, why? When biological fathers are not prepared for the responsibility of fatherhood, we tell them, "you better get ready."

Should we also vote to beat and subdue a class of individuals based on their heritage or gender? What about choosing a single individual instead of a class of people, that way we could rack up all the debt for all the bastard children and blame it on them, holding them accountable for the thousands of support orders. It could be their birthright, not due to their heritage or gender, just because. No one would call you racist, or sexist if it was just one person. The problem is that it oppresses a class of people, and oppressing one person is also wrong. We should not all vote to beat and subdue a class of individuals, or a single individual in any category.

nota bene said:
As you know, I am pro-life, and I am consistent in my beliefs. But I like how those who are pro-choice are presuming to tell others what "pro-life" really means. :roll:
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Quite right, nota bene, it is very presumptuous. But what does it mean to be pro life?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Anything that pro-choicers decide it means, I suppose.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Yeah, that's not good enough. It's one thing to be complacent. Everything is everything, you know?

It's another thing entirely to support your position with evidence and not be passive aggressive, spineless cowards.
 
Re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"

prometeus said:
Indeed, but at that point it is no longer about him or her but the well being of the child. Would you prefer that the government just subsidize it instead?
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So then whatd the diffetence between what your doing and what you were criticizing another for. You both seem to want the gov to inject your beleifs into other peoples lives


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Re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"

nota bene said:
But I like how those who are pro-choice are presuming to tell others what "pro-life" really means. :roll:
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nota bene said:
Anything that pro-choicers decide it means, I suppose.
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Are you suggesting that doesn't happen in reverse?
Pro-lifer's telling others what pro-choice means?
You're not suggesting that doesn't happen on a regular basis are you? :2wave:
 
Re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"

Dragonfly said:
Are you suggesting that doesn't happen in reverse?
Pro-lifer's telling others what pro-choice means?
You're not suggesting that doesn't happen on a regular basis are you? :2wave:
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"Interestingly," I've never said a single word about any of this. Take your duplicity elsewhere.
 
Re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"

nota bene said:
"Interestingly," I've never said a single word about any of this. Take your duplicity elsewhere.
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Avoidance technique noted. Now, care to answer my question?
 
Re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"

Dragonfly said:
Avoidance technique noted. Now, care to answer my question?
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Again, take your games elsewhere. I have said nothing that should inspire your dishonest questions. Here they are again:

Are you suggesting that doesn't happen in reverse? No. Find in my words where you think I have.

Pro-lifer's telling others what pro-choice means? No. I have not spoken of this ever.

You're not suggesting that doesn't happen on a regular basis are you? No. I have suggested nothing.

Disgusting duplicity for the loss.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Celebrity said:
Since the early 60's[SUP]1[/SUP], the phrase "pro life" has often been interpreted as being in violation of a woman's bodily autonomy, by the following definition:

pro-life (prō-līf′)
adj.
Advocating the legal protection of human embryos and fetuses, especially by favoring the outlawing of abortion on the ground that it is the taking of a human life.

Advocacy for legal protection of human embryos and fetuses is essential to treating "pro life" as a political doctrine, beyond what I might believe about biological life. Here are some things that I believe are important to the life of young children: adequate prenatal care, parental leave (including adoption leave), and early childhood education. Abortion is like a miscarriage which is preventable. We can make choices at any time before pregnancy that stop an abortion from happening.

I am nominally pro life, because I resent the misnomer that is "pro-choice." You will find that I agree with the pro choice agenda on the importance of the three things listed above that are important to life. Not all pro choice people agree, but some do, and I don't like to think of people who abort as people who kill babies. When a life is lost by miscarriage or abortion, it is unfortunate for anyone who wants to add a family member to their group.

I resent the misnomer of "pro choice" which is assigned to anyone who believes a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body, because it does not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives. Biological life has worked with social life to produce and improve prenatal care, parental leave and early childhood education. I don't think it's pro life to take away these things and it's certainly not pro choice. The choice between putting food on the table for one's family and buying a contraceptive for one's family is not a real choice.

In any political arena, we have to deal with the questions associated with the scarcity of resources. I'm not interested in discussing the availability of birth control as a resource in this thread. Naturalists and feminists would have you believe that the simplest answer is also the best answer. According to the heuristic of Occam's Razor, feminists don't know what they're talking about. Condoms add a synthetic element to sex, and birth control techniques like withdrawal and the rhythm method require a significant amount of coordination. It would be far simpler to just make the baby; when you decide to not make a baby, Occam's Razor still applies. The withdrawal method will not work for women and the rhythm method will not work for men, unless men and women are cooperative.

Because men and women are not cooperative, how can society continue to support people who want to reproduce, without punishing those who are not prepared to reproduce?


1. pro-life. (n.d.) Random House Kernerman Webster’s College Dictionary. (2010). Retrieved August 5 2016 from Pro-lifeww.thefreedictionary.com/pro-life - definition of pro-lifeww.thefreedictionary.com/pro-life by The Free Dictionary
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It takes two to tango no matter which one invites the other to the dance floor.

Your argument however seems very convoluted. can you narrow down what you're trying to say.
 
Re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"

trouble13 said:
So then whatd the diffetence between what your doing and what you were criticizing another for.
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How so? If ensuring that a new born child's needs are met v. dictating to a woman when to reproduce is the same for you then we should just leave it at a disagreement.
What do you propose instead?

You both seem to want the gov to inject your beleifs into other peoples lives
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Where is anything here about what I believe and who is "both"?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

jet57 said:
It takes two to tango no matter which one invites the other to the dance floor.

Your argument however seems very convoluted. can you narrow down what you're trying to say.
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Sure, my argument is that in order to be pro life, one does not need to be anti abortion. Men and women should have equal access to abortion, as a way to cease a process leading to a change in their lives, such as parentage. Children should have adequate healthcare and education. Pregnant women should have adequate prenatal care. I find that one choice often leads to another, or many choices, but men do not have a say in the matter, therefore men are not "pro choice," unless they are "pro woman" and not "pro man." In that way, pro choice and pro life are similar, because they are exclusive. Someone doesn't get a choice.

In addition to the above, there is not always equal access to parental leave for men and women. Women seem to collectively want equal pay, yet some women are not willing to relinquish their status as primary caretakers of infants, and feel that they deserve a higher order of treatment in the workplace due to their role in their family outside of work. We make choices in our lives, and what choices we make as a society seem to reflect a desire to allow women to live as caretakers and men to lead professional lives. That is why men and women do not have equal access to custody. But I digress.
 
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