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Mom Beats Boyfriend with Baby

And perhaps an unwanted baby shouldn't be allowed to grow up.

Perhaps a baby capable of surviving outside the woman carrying the chid should not be killed.

Oh, I agree with the viability limits on abortion. Any child able to live outside the womb should be saved. I'm not against taking them away from incompetent parents though. We fail born children in the country.

Too many are raised by bad parents, in bad school systems and bad neighborhoods. But, too many people argue that doing something about it is either socialism or fascist. Left and Right both miss the boat on that.
 
Oh, I agree with the viability limits on abortion. Any child able to live outside the womb should be saved. I'm not against taking them away from incompetent parents though. We fail born children in the country.

Too many are raised by bad parents, in bad school systems and bad neighborhoods. But, too many people argue that doing something about it is either socialism or fascist. Left and Right both miss the boat on that.

It's sad but I question whether the government is capable of caring for kids. I wonder what happened to the kids who were invited to enter the U.S. illegally and were then whisked off to secret centers? When I was a police officer I knew what happened to a lot of kids taken away from parents and it was horrible.
 
Perhaps a baby capable of surviving outside the woman carrying the chid should not be killed.

Abortions are in general legal up to the point of viability outside of the womb. Before that time they are not capable of surviving outside of the womb.
 
It's sad but I question whether the government is capable of caring for kids. I wonder what happened to the kids who were invited to enter the U.S. illegally and were then whisked off to secret centers? When I was a police officer I knew what happened to a lot of kids taken away from parents and it was horrible.

The system is broken. I won't argue against that. Foster care is often taking a kid from the frying pan and throwing them into the fire. But, that does not meant we should not try to fix it.

I have a relative in the South Chicago area who works in the system. Her job is to go to the homes of kids in trouble, those who were reported by schools or neighbors to be either neglected or abused. It's a mess. The stories she tells...make a grown man cry. Between the drugs, booze, pure incompetence and outright sadism...it's nuts. Just nuts.

And, the solution options are worse. She's dealing with overcrowded, underfunded alternatives which are also chock full of druggies, boozers, incompetents and sadists.
 
And perhaps an unwanted baby shouldn't be allowed to grow up.

Perhaps a baby capable of surviving outside the woman carrying the chid should not be killed.

I am pro choice but I can empathize with your position. My question is this, if the child is unwanted for whatever reason what do you do with that child?

Do we consider them orphans and place them in an orphanage. Do we force the parents to raise them? If your against abortions what is your solution?


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It's possible to support abortion while finding post natal killing abhorrent and call it murder. An unwanted fetus should never be allowed to become a baby. Too risky.

I know the legal answer to what I'm asking so please don't give me that as an answer. I want to know for you personally what is the ethical difference between a fetus and a baby that makes it acceptable to kill one but unacceptable to kill the other?


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I know the legal answer to what I'm asking so please don't give me that as an answer. I want to know for you personally what is the ethical difference between a fetus and a baby that makes it acceptable to kill one but unacceptable to kill the other?


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One is sentient, the other is not.
 
You can't make this **** up

Woman used baby to beat boyfriend, beach patrol officials say



Tell me again, why people oppose abortion? Some people really should be encouraged to have one. In fact, we should jump at the chance to pay for them instead of making it easier for unfit parents to keep their babies.

I tried to find a jaw dropping picture that would fit this and.... I simple couldn't find on that expressed the amount of jaw dropping required for this. I thought that nothing could ever surprise me anymore. This....this actually did. The woman needs far more than her kid taken away and simple prison time. I hope to God that those in prison give her the appropriate reaction to this...this...*shakes head*
 
I tried to find a jaw dropping picture that would fit this and.... I simple couldn't find on that expressed the amount of jaw dropping required for this. I thought that nothing could ever surprise me anymore. This....this actually did. The woman needs far more than her kid taken away and simple prison time. I hope to God that those in prison give her the appropriate reaction to this...this...*shakes head*

Like most people, I thought the headline came with a twist. I never expected it to be literal.
 
I am pro choice but I can empathize with your position. My question is this, if the child is unwanted for whatever reason what do you do with that child?

Do we consider them orphans and place them in an orphanage. Do we force the parents to raise them? If your against abortions what is your solution?


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I don't have one, Trouble13. I won't be like you Barack Obama campaigning and sneer and say the answer is above my pay grade. I have some partial answers. I'm not against abortions in the first week of pregnancy and I am totally against abortions in the last week of pregnancy. I would make early abortions at taxpayers' expense.

In one European country, the Netherlands, I think, abortions in the first weeks is on demand. Then there is a point where an abortion can only be performed when a panel of doctors agree the baby is badly handicapped or the physical health of the mother is at risk. I ask the health care professional telling me who it works about the psychological health of the mother and she laughed. In the last part of the pregnancy, the life of the mother has to be at risk.

So, what do you do when the woman, I hesitate to say mother, has the child and won't or can't care for it? I know foster parents who are wonderful. My banker and her husband didn't have children, became foster parents, truly love the babies, and have adopted one. Another friend, a lawyer, were foster parents and adopted six special needs kids. They're grown now and five are doing fine and one goes to jail. Not bad, considering.

But then I knew people who were foster parents for the money. They should be jailed. One couple had four teenaged kids and they were noisy when they had two girls in one bedroom and two boys in another. When they changed it to boy/girl in each bedroom it got a lot quieter. No kidding. I was involved in investigation cases of sex with underage kids involving foster parents.

One couple took in a 13-year old girl who was not bright. The male started having sex with her immediately. When she turned 15, then the age of consent, he divorced his wife and married the 15-year old. He beat and abused her sexually. Finally, she shot him. My recommendation to the District Attorney, with agreement from the man's natural children, was that there should be no charges.

Being foster parents shouldn't be a money-making business for nitwits. But, then we couldn't meet the demand. So, I don't know the answer but we aren't even looking for one. We need to. There has to be something between "kill them" and "ignore them".
 
I don't have one, Trouble13. I won't be like you Barack Obama campaigning and sneer and say the answer is above my pay grade. I have some partial answers. I'm not against abortions in the first week of pregnancy and I am totally against abortions in the last week of pregnancy. I would make early abortions at taxpayers' expense.

In one European country, the Netherlands, I think, abortions in the first weeks is on demand. Then there is a point where an abortion can only be performed when a panel of doctors agree the baby is badly handicapped or the physical health of the mother is at risk. I ask the health care professional telling me who it works about the psychological health of the mother and she laughed. In the last part of the pregnancy, the life of the mother has to be at risk.

So, what do you do when the woman, I hesitate to say mother, has the child and won't or can't care for it? I know foster parents who are wonderful. My banker and her husband didn't have children, became foster parents, truly love the babies, and have adopted one. Another friend, a lawyer, were foster parents and adopted six special needs kids. They're grown now and five are doing fine and one goes to jail. Not bad, considering.

But then I knew people who were foster parents for the money. They should be jailed. One couple had four teenaged kids and they were noisy when they had two girls in one bedroom and two boys in another. When they changed it to boy/girl in each bedroom it got a lot quieter. No kidding. I was involved in investigation cases of sex with underage kids involving foster parents.

One couple took in a 13-year old girl who was not bright. The male started having sex with her immediately. When she turned 15, then the age of consent, he divorced his wife and married the 15-year old. He beat and abused her sexually. Finally, she shot him. My recommendation to the District Attorney, with agreement from the man's natural children, was that there should be no charges.

Being foster parents shouldn't be a money-making business for nitwits. But, then we couldn't meet the demand. So, I don't know the answer but we aren't even looking for one. We need to. There has to be something between "kill them" and "ignore them".

I agree there is no clean answer to this. It has a lot to do with why I am pro choice. I do believe abortion is murder but I think it's mercy killing. As cold as it sounds killing them prevents them from ever knowing any of those horrors but I fully concede it also eliminates them from knowing the joys of life as well. I think every couple has a moral obligation to choose whichever they believe is best for their child.

Many people make a moral distinction of it being ok to kill if your doing it to spare that child from being handicapped. I see the things you just described as well as other stuff as handicaps that I as a loving parent may want to spare my child from.

I respect the prolife position but sometimes I don't feel like they respect mine. Whichever side your on faces the same dilemma. There is always going to be cruel people who make selfish choices that put themselves before the child's welfare. That's what needs to be fixed. Imo you don't do it by rewarding people for doing the right thing but by punishing them for doing the wrong thing.

The woman in the op should go to jail forever. It's not even about punishing her as much as it is about society sending a clear message to potential future offenders that what she did is unacceptable and we have no mercy for that type of an offense.




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Trouble13: " I do believe abortion is murder but I think it's mercy killing. As cold as it sounds killing them prevents them from ever knowing any of those horrors but I fully concede it also eliminates them from knowing the joys of life as well. I think every couple has a moral obligation to choose whichever they believe is best for their child. "

That's why I'm pro-life...after a certain point. I would agree it was up to the couple but for pro-choice it's only up to the mother. The father has no say. And, yes, mercy killing is murder.

I've had people tell me that I can't be happy living with my dog. I insist I'm happy and two people have said I just think I'm happy. I'll settle for that and hope they don't decide to euthanize me. Oh, and I know a 17-year old fetus who is doing okay. Not as well as she'd be doing if she'd been born to Hillary Clinton but she's doing okay. She has a shot at making a life for herself.

If you and I were stranded on a life raft in the Pacific would you be in favor of me killing you to save you from suffering?
 
The system is broken. I won't argue against that. Foster care is often taking a kid from the frying pan and throwing them into the fire. But, that does not meant we should not try to fix it.

I have a relative in the South Chicago area who works in the system. Her job is to go to the homes of kids in trouble, those who were reported by schools or neighbors to be either neglected or abused. It's a mess. The stories she tells...make a grown man cry. Between the drugs, booze, pure incompetence and outright sadism...it's nuts. Just nuts.

And, the solution options are worse. She's dealing with overcrowded, underfunded alternatives which are also chock full of druggies, boozers, incompetents and sadists.

It's a really bizarre phenomena going on in our courts. Somewhere along the way we lost applying common sense and injecting practicality into solutions.

I remember about a year ago a family on the news lost their baby because they decided to remove their baby from one hospitals care to another's. The first hospital called child welfare and they took away custody from them. This stuff happens.

It won't surprise me if the woman in the op does not go to jail and has her parental rights restored after some counseling.

It feels like they do things that defy logic and is exactly wrong more than they do what is right.


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It's a really bizarre phenomena going on in our courts. Somewhere along the way we lost applying common sense and injecting practicality into solutions.

I remember about a year ago a family on the news lost their baby because they decided to remove their baby from one hospitals care to another's. The first hospital called child welfare and they took away custody from them. This stuff happens.

It won't surprise me if the woman in the op does not go to jail and has her parental rights restored after some counseling.

It feels like they do things that defy logic and is exactly wrong more than they do what is right.


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What stuns me here is the mother's absolute disregard for the baby. Normal people protect their babies with their own bodies. They certainly do not use it like a weapon and then throw it down to the ground, leaving it to suffocate in the sand.

This woman should never get that child back. Never. And, she should be forced to get a tubal ligation to ensure she never has another.
 
I agree that paying women to abort is a bad idea but your also being kind of sexist to assume it will a male pimp behind the systemic abuse that would be likely to occur.

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You're right, it could be women, trans, asexuals, etc. doing it as well... My apologies....
 
And perhaps an unwanted baby shouldn't be allowed to grow up.

Perhaps a baby capable of surviving outside the woman carrying the chid should not be killed.

Perhaps people should worry about their own bodies and stay out of the private medical decisions of others.
 
You're right, it could be women, trans, asexuals, etc. doing it as well... My apologies....

No need for an apology I just wanted to point out something that has been inherently planted in our brains. Men are the villains and women are the victims. There is just as many women with bad intentions as there are men. I think it's on a subliminal level but it's a mental trap we fall into too often. When I catch it I like to raise awareness to it. I'm humility of doing it too.


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Perhaps people should worry about their own bodies and stay out of the private medical decisions of others.

I agree with this and it's why I argue for men's right to chose as much as I do for the woman's right to chose. They are personal decisions best left up to them to make freely.


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It's honestly quite telling how warped someone's brain has to be to see this horrific story and not only associate it with abortion but come here and openly opine how the abused kid would be better off dead, as a matter of policy.
 
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