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Liberal Logic

They are common in the gun sub-forum. They are the people that start writing that stadiums, movie theaters, schools, malls, private businesses, etc should be/remain gun-free. I dont have a specific link, but check one on that subject.

I am not sure that I have ever heard that... in fact, the opposite. Pro-gun people ridicule those that want/endorse gun free zones because all that means is that a shooter has a lot of easy targets.
 
I am not sure that I have ever heard that... in fact, the opposite. Pro-gun people ridicule those that want/endorse gun free zones because all that means is that a shooter has a lot of easy targets.

It does not mean that guns are no guns in that area. It means only security and enforcement are allowed to have guns in those areas.

Such as on airplanes.
 
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It does not mean that guns are no guns in that area. It means only security and enforcement are allowed to have guns in those areas.

Such as on airplanes.

It is understood that gun free means that LEO's can have guns and regular civilians can not so there is no need to state it again... it is redundant.
 
I am not sure that I have ever heard that... in fact, the opposite. Pro-gun people ridicule those that want/endorse gun free zones because all that means is that a shooter has a lot of easy targets.

Nope, lots will argue for certain areas to remain gun-free...esp. businesses, stadiums, arenas.

And there were other things I mentioned, like mandatory training and I forget the other off-hand.
 
IPro-gun people ridicule those that want/endorse gun free zones because all that means is that a shooter has a lot of easy targets.

Nope, lots will argue for certain areas to remain gun-free...esp. businesses, stadiums, arenas.

"Nope"? Not sure how you "noped" me in the slightest...
 
"Nope"? Not sure how you "noped" me in the slightest...

Sorry, mis-typed. There are many that do believe those places, and others, should be gun-free.
 
Your turn. Do you support the Patriot Act and the formation of the Department of Homeland Security?

I think the Patriot Act was a knee jerk thing as a preventative when it occurred. I don't even know what it's become at this point, but once they rise, government programs are harder to kill than the average king vampire in a horror movie. Any program like this should be passed only with a Sunset and requirement or prior and specific approval on an up or down vote to renew. No specific vote, not renewel.

Homeland Security seems redundant to me. Maybe I just don't get it. I would like to see any department like this be more like the FBI in its investigation and have the real teeth of the authority given to the individual states.

Anyone? What does Homeland do that could not not be handled by the pre-existing law enforcement agencies?
 
A brilliant idea which would actually reduce murder rates. According to the liberal dogma, death penalty does not deter, which, to any intelligent person like me, means that nothing deters. Except the fear of instant death delivered by my shiny and well lubricated Beretta. No Miranda, juries, appeals, bad childhood crap, and s*** like that.

Which brings me to my second point. Once murder is legal, all those who do not wish to die a violent death would have to arm themselves. Every single person. Kind of like the Soviets and the US were armed to the teeth and nobody died.

But it gets better. Murder being legal would allow me, or anyone close to me, to shoot the attacker at my discretion, on sight, and without any consequences, civil or criminal.

I am beginning to love your idea.

A sure fire cure for violent crime is a well armed citizenry that shoots back.
 
I think the Patriot Act was a knee jerk thing as a preventative when it occurred. I don't even know what it's become at this point, but once they rise, government programs are harder to kill than the average king vampire in a horror movie. Any program like this should be passed only with a Sunset and requirement or prior and specific approval on an up or down vote to renew. No specific vote, not renewel.

Homeland Security seems redundant to me. Maybe I just don't get it. I would like to see any department like this be more like the FBI in its investigation and have the real teeth of the authority given to the individual states.

Anyone? What does Homeland do that could not not be handled by the pre-existing law enforcement agencies?

My point is, conservative gov'ts are just as greedy for power and budget as liberal ones. More, maybe, depending on what you call 'liberal'. They're politicians, they measure their self-worth by the size of their budgets and the number of their underlings. Conservatives no less than liberals. The Department of Homeland Security is a prime example- as you say, it's redundantcy and overlapping and that can never lead to efficiency.
Also, I'm a Canadian liberal, where the socialists and 'progressives' have their own party, the NDP (New Democratic Party). This makes my understanding of the term slightly different from yours. For example, I support the Canadian health insurance model but do not agree with seatbelt laws, motorcycle and bicycle helmet laws, anti-smoking laws (I don't smoke), anti almost anything laws. There needs to be a damned good reason for something to be illegal and just that people shouldn't do it isn't enough. Drugs are the biggest example.
 
My point is, conservative gov'ts are just as greedy for power and budget as liberal ones. More, maybe, depending on what you call 'liberal'. They're politicians, they measure their self-worth by the size of their budgets and the number of their underlings. Conservatives no less than liberals. The Department of Homeland Security is a prime example- as you say, it's redundantcy and overlapping and that can never lead to efficiency.
Also, I'm a Canadian liberal, where the socialists and 'progressives' have their own party, the NDP (New Democratic Party). This makes my understanding of the term slightly different from yours. For example, I support the Canadian health insurance model but do not agree with seatbelt laws, motorcycle and bicycle helmet laws, anti-smoking laws (I don't smoke), anti almost anything laws. There needs to be a damned good reason for something to be illegal and just that people shouldn't do it isn't enough. Drugs are the biggest example.

Drugs are a fantastic example! Most drug use, I think, is more like the beer and wine sort with the Scotch and brandy sort closely following.

These are regulated with age limitations, here in Indiana, and penalties are levied for the results of the actions where the use is not appropriate like driving. Of course, Mother Nature seems to find ways to punish idiots, but that punishment seems to wash over those near the idiotic behavior as well.

Prescription Drugs that modify body systems, physical and mental, are also well regulated, but abused.

Why the regulation of the Schedule One drugs is binary, or even how the drugs got on Schedule One in the first place, is a mystery to me. Same with how one product, Snickers, is subject to sales tax while another, Ding Dongs, is not. Different topic.

Regarding the growth of Governmental programs, the first reason is that there are no budget limits. Out of money? Print more!

The pencil necked morons in our bureaucracies prop up their dickless self images with larger staffs. The irony of that word choice is not entirely accidental.

In the USA, the parties are Republican and Democrat. Neither party understands what a budget is. It is a plan by which success is measured. Achieving a budget is the standard, not a goal. A budget can only be achieved when a group of serious, talented professionals are working as a team, exerting great effort and overcoming great difficulties.

Nobody in our government likes to work as a part of a team, is a serious professional, wants to exert great effort in this pursuit or want to overcome difficulties. They are all party minions working to increase the power and reach of their own political party and have no reason or intention of ever saving any money or conforming to a budget.

The people in our government are empty suits who like to project their image of power by spending more, having larger staffs to boss around and are gifted rationalizers who can explain failure with less effort than plan and achieve success. This could well be because planning and achieving success in a budgetary sense is something they have only rarely had the need to practice.

Their bosses are the same people, but less accountable and magnified.

To your example of wanting publicly paid healthcare with no regulation of personal behavior, if you want to have the general public pay for the medical care and also want to encourage the population to engage in beltless and helmutless self-maming, there is a disconnect in your thinking.

If you never want to clean up the blood after a baby cuts himself with a butcher knife, a good first step is to remove the butcher knife from the crib.
 
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Liberal Logic:

Anti-gun legislation will stop gun violence, but anti-abortion legislation won't stop abortions.

Yeah, doesn't make sense to me, either.

No one suggested anti-gun legislation would halt gun violence entirely. Clearly there will always be a black market. These two problems though are considerably different from one another. Most of the mass shootings we have seen over the last decade or so have been young males who would otherwise not have access to the channels to obtain weapons illegally. Street violence would likely be reduced as well, although not stopped entirely. Why? Because the cost outweighs the benefits. If you get caught with a weapon on you in England after a burglary, you may as well have shot somebody. This is such an incentive for criminals not to carry guns, that they check each other before doing a robbery to make sure no one has guns, as everyone gets charged. So ultimately, a servere reduction in gun violence would be likely with gun illegalization.

Abortion is an entirely separate issue. The problem here is that abortions were illegal prior to Roe V Wade, and many young women did their own abortions often resulting in their deaths. The legalization of abortion allows for safety protocols to be met to deter the risk of the mother's life being ended. Making abortion illegal would likely also reduce the number of abortions, but at the cost of many mother's lives. Mothers are willing to have abortions out of desperation, criminals are not usually as desperate, or can find some other method of committing their crimes. Anyways, I am for only making abortion legal for parents that can not financially support a child, cases where birth would put the mother's life in danger, and in cases of rape and incest. Of course I have my qualms with this as well, considering how many unwanted children are circulating a very poor adoption system.

In either case, there is a common theme among the liberal train of thought- protection of human lives. Ones that are out here breathing mind you, not fetuses.
 
Isn't the title of this thread an oxymoron?
noun
noun: oxymoron; plural noun: oxymorons

a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g., faith unfaithful kept him falsely true ).


If someone else noticed, sorry, I didn't look at the whole thread.
 
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