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Abortion

Henrin said:
I don't see why not.
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Of course you don't.

But please feel free to backup your claim and provide use links to any information, but more in particular organizations that invest in doing statistics on what positive life consequences for the born would be like in the US (or globally even) - if abortions weren't performed.
 
thenotorious said:
You know I could repeat what I've already said for the thousandth time, answering your question for the thousandth time. Tell you I DO think there are bad effects a thousandth time. However, my patience has run thin. I can't provide anymore than scientific fact and evidence, and you refuse to acknowledge it, or even the first word of every post I make. Convincing you...or to be honest even 'convincing you that I told you something', even something like apple pie is delicious is useless at this point. It's clear you are either purposely ignoring them or you can't comprehend basic words, nor basic science. Seeing other people's posts here, it seems to be a recurring problem, and not just exclusive with me. That being said, as I have already said, but you've also chosen to ignore, I'm not answering your questions again for the millionth time.
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But you did not prove at all there are negative effects on society...can you give me one or 2 lines right here that *directly* support that claim? A summary? Becauase I missed it.

I have not ignored what you wrote, but it is about speculation and supposition. I am asking for concrete evidence of the negative effects.
 
GEIxBattleRifle said:
I'm quite sure it's purposely ignoring the answer. If she doesn't like the answer, she'll attempt to ask the same question again just re worded slightly but all the same none the less.
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Really? Prove that you are right: please tell me what he posted were the negative effects of abortion on society.

Please "put up" or admit that you're wrong. Can you actually 'walk the walk?'
 
Lursa said:
But you did not prove at all there are negative effects on society...
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Correction, I did not prove to you. Which at this point, I would say is scientifically impossible to do.

That being said, as I have already said, but you've also chosen to ignore, I'm not answering your questions again for the millionth time.
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I have not ignored what you wrote, but it is about speculation and supposition. I am asking for concrete evidence of the negative effects.
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Funny how in your response of not ignoring, you manage to ignore once again.
 
thenotorious said:
Correction, I did not prove to you. Which at this point, I would say is scientifically impossible to do.




Funny how in your response of not ignoring, you manage to ignore once again.
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There is no evidence of negative effects on society (or humanity as a whole) as a result of abortion..probably since the very first. If you possess such evidence or can link us to your sources, it would be greatly appreciated.
 
thenotorious said:
Correction, I did not prove to you. Which at this point, I would say is scientifically impossible to do.

Funny how in your response of not ignoring, you manage to ignore once again.
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Ignore what? That many good people are not born because of abortion? Sure...and so are lots of bad people. But mostly within that range, fairly neutral, and balancing out.

You provided comments on people being 'good.' You can only speculate on their influence 'if born,'...and you chose to ignore the influence of the bad. Would the bad be less? Maybe. But even so the harm would be real. Overall....we do not know. It is just as valid to say that this stil rests on the old cliche: it could be Hitler just as likely as it could be Einstein. Extreme examples? Yes, but it makes the point. In general, it would be the entire range in between that would have impacts.

My question was the overall IMPACT on society. I provided evidence and demonstrated clear positive impacts. There's a difference.
 
Lursa said:
Ignore what? That many good people are not born because of abortion? Sure...and so are lots of bad people. But mostly within that range, fairly neutral, and balancing out.

You provided comments on people being 'good.' You can only speculate on their influence 'if born,'...and you chose to ignore the influence of the bad. Would the bad be less? Maybe. But even so the harm would be real.

My question was the overall IMPACT on society. I provided evidence and demonstrated clear positive impacts. There's a difference.
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Once again you ignored the statement. :lol: Nonetheless, it's bolded and has nothing to even do with abortion or it's negative or positive impacts.
'if' can also be met with scientific plausibility when met with data, which I provided. Just thought you should be informed of that for your other ventures.
 
thenotorious said:
Once again you ignored the statement. :lol: Nonetheless, it's bolded and has nothing to even do with abortion or it's negative or positive impacts.
'if' can also be met with scientific plausibility when met with data, which I provided. Just thought you should be informed of that for your other ventures.
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This?? https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/0...ople-than-bad/

Seriously? It proves nothing and it doesnt even provide supporting evidence. It just shows people are often idiots. Not they they are necessarily wrong about this but a huge percentage of people believe that Obama was born in Kenya or that the unborn are ripped apart in pain in abortions. All are 100% wrong.
 
Lursa said:
And their future detrimental actions and impacts....and I provided source text and links that showed there is a higher risk to those born into socio-economically challenged families...so a higher percentage of those would have fallen into that category.

So it sounds like you dont really know what you lost....or maybe should be grateful.
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It makes no difference to my argument. You suggest that there is no negative consequences to abortion, so in actuality all I have to do is show that there is fact a loss. Not all people born in poverty stay poor nor are poor people as a group only a negative.
 
Lursa said:
This?? https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/0...ople-than-bad/

Seriously? It proves nothing and it doesnt even provide supporting evidence. It just shows people are often idiots. Not they they are necessarily wrong about this but a huge percentage of people believe that Obama was born in Kenya or that the unborn are ripped apart in pain in abortions. All are 100% wrong.
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Did I reference any data I provided? No. (just more ignoring...)

I referenced a comment stated in bold about not repeating my stance further, which you ignored at various junctures.

I also referenced your idea that 'if', in any context can be scientifically plausible which you inferred it wasn't.
 
Henrin said:
It makes no difference to my argument. You suggest that there is no negative consequences to abortion, so in actuality all I have to do is show that there is fact a loss. Not all people born in poverty stay poor nor are poor people as a group only a negative.
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No, you're wrong. And here is some proof…and there is plenty more. No one said everyone born into poverty or abusive unloving homes negatively affects society… but a larger percentage do. Provably.

From: CDC - About Teen Pregnancy - Teen Pregnancy - Reproductive Health
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"In 2008, teen pregnancy and childbirth accounted for nearly $11 billion per year in costs to U.S. taxpayers for increased health care and foster care, increased incarceration rates among children of teen parents, and lost tax revenue because of lower educational attainment and income among teen mothers."
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"Pregnancy and birth are significant contributors to high school drop out rates among girls. Only about 50% of teen mothers receive a high school diploma by 22 years of age, versus approximately 90% of women who had not given birth during adolescence."
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"The children of teenage mothers are more likely to have lower school achievement and drop out of high school, have more health problems, be incarcerated at some time during adolescence, give birth as a teenager, and face unemployment as a young adult."
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From <http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/186435-question-pro-lifers-w-79-a-20.html#post1063097282>

Children in single-parent households are burdened not only with profound economic disadvantages, but are also far likelier to eventually get into trouble with the law. As a Heritage Foundation analysis notes, youngsters raised by single parents, as compared to those who grow up in intact married homes, are much more likely to be physically abused; to be treated for emotional and behavioral disorders; to smoke, drink, and use drugs; to behave aggressively and violently; to engage in criminal activity; and to be arrested for a juvenile crime. According to the National Fatherhood Initiative, 60% of rapists, 72% of adolescent murderers, and 70% of long-term prison inmates are men who grew up in fatherless homes.*
Poverty and Crime - Discover the Networks
http://www.debatepolitics.com/redir...erthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1636
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Lursa said:
What you do choose to ignore however, is that eliminating abortion would INCREASE negative things in society. (And there are studies on this as well). To force women unready or socio-economically challenged to have MORE kids means MORE kids born at risk. More families at risk socio-economically. And this risk is clearly researched. Kids born into more socio-economically challenged homes are more at risk for dropping out of high school, never getting a higher education, receiving less opportunities in life, fewer getting out of dead end jobs, more at risk for juvenile delinquency, crime, and prison. And all these things HARM society and cost it way beyond the financial.
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thenotorious said:
Did I reference any data I provided? No. (just more ignoring...)

I referenced a comment stated in bold about not repeating my stance further, which you ignored at various junctures.

I also referenced your idea that 'if', in any context can be scientifically plausible which you inferred it wasn't.
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So now you are bobbing and weaving but providing zero information to discuss.

You cannot support your claim that abortion affects society negatively.

You are right, I'll leave you alone. (As RM mentioned, no one else has been able to do so either. It's not like it's the first time we've asked.)
 
Henrin said:
It makes no difference to my argument. You suggest that there is no negative consequences to abortion, so in actuality all I have to do is show that there is fact a loss. Not all people born in poverty stay poor nor are poor people as a group only a negative.
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You still opine and don't backup your claims. Show us how you can prove abortions have negative effects on society, here and elsewhere around the world, that cause truly damaging impacts on humanity? And while your at it, I'm still waiting for the negative impacts of FUTURE SOCIETIES cause by the death of children who die from cancer.
 
Lursa said:
No, you're wrong. And here is some proof…and there is plenty more. No one said everyone born into poverty or abusive unloving homes negatively affects society… but a larger percentage do. Provably.


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From <http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/186435-question-pro-lifers-w-79-a-20.html#post1063097282>
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Again, your argument was suggesting there was only negative consequences from abortion. To suggest society has not lost anything from the fifty million killed due to abortion is quite frankly statistically ignorant.
 
Henrin said:
Again, your argument was suggesting there was only negative consequences from abortion. To suggest society has not lost anything from the fifty million killed due to abortion is quite frankly statistically ignorant.
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No. My argument is that there are demonstrated positive impacts and effects on society from legal abortion. The bold is completely incorrectly attributed to me.

And feel free to provide the statistics that prove you are right.
 
Henrin said:
It's hardly imagination. If I have fifty million people and I kill them I lose by extension their future production. If I take fifty million people from the same demographics as the unborn that were aborted since 1973 and measure their production over their lifetime, I will have a pretty good idea of what I lost from those that were aborted in terms of production.
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Even if the US had a ban against abortion making abortion illegal almost all would been aborted anyway so you can just throw away production over a lifetime theroy.

During the 1930s abortion was a crime but there were were about 800,000 abortions a year in the US making the rate of abortions higher than when abortion was legal.
 
minnie616 said:
Even if the US had a ban against abortion making abortion illegal almost all would been aborted anyway so you can just throw away production over a lifetime theroy.

During the 1930s abortion was a crime but there were were about 800,000 abortions a year in the US making the rate of abortions higher than when abortion was legal.
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You are wrong. Abortion significantly is decreased when illegal.
http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Guttmacherabortionrate2.png
 
Lursa said:
So now you are bobbing and weaving but providing zero information to discuss.

You cannot support your claim that abortion affects society negatively.

You are right, I'll leave you alone. (As RM mentioned, no one else has been able to do so either. It's not like it's the first time we've asked.)
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No, my comment was not intended to open or resume a discussion, simply to clarify.
 
thenotorious said:
You are wrong. Abortion significantly is decreased when illegal.
http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Guttmacherabortionrate2.png
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Abortion went underground but did not decrease to any significance.

Reagan defines the first antiabortion period from 1880-1930. Despite the law, abortion seems to have been practiced widely. Key to understanding why the law wasn't implemented is the fact that abortion (and childbirth) usually occurred within the confines of the woman's home. Many physicians and midwives willingly responded to the woman who had called for their aid while in this private setting. Abortion was virtually invisible.
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Read more:

https://www.solidarity-us.org/node/864
 
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thenotorious said:
Ignore the statistical chart, great.
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The statistical chart recorded legal abortions not the illegal ones.
Once Roe was passed legal abortions climbed as more clinics were built. They climbed again in the late 70s through the mid 1980s because the birth control pill was linked to blood clots , strokes, and heart attacks. Since the mid 1980s abortions have fallen due to sex education and better more effective artifical birth control methods with fewer side effects.

Between the years 2008 and 2011 abortions fell 13 percent mostly due to long term birth control.

The number of abortion clinics only fell by 1 percent during those years.
 
minnie616 said:
Even if the US had a ban against abortion making abortion illegal almost all would been aborted anyway so you can just throw away production over a lifetime theroy.

During the 1930s abortion was a crime but there were were about 800,000 abortions a year in the US making the rate of abortions higher than when abortion was legal.
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I think if abortions became illegal now, the numbers might increase as well. Look at how easy it is to get illegal narcotics. An underground for abortion pills would exist within weeks. Would that lead to safer abortions, no....I have no doubt there would be more complications
 
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