Man tricked ex into miscarriage with abortion-pill smoothie

CanadaJohn · Mar 12, 2015

Lursa said:
How so? It doesnt say she dishonestly 'tricked' him into unprotected sex.

He knew the risks of pregnancy as well as she. So he doesnt like the outcome...but it's 'honorable' for him to poison her in order to avoid *his consequences* and then admit it when caught? :doh

That is so disturbing that you or anyone could believe that.

And again, you distort what I post so that you have something to bleat about.

The honour is in admitting he committed the crime, pleading guilty, and accepting his punishment. He didn't make any emotional or other excuses. Accepting responsibility for your mistakes is honorable, even if the mistake was dishonorable.

CanadaJohn · Mar 12, 2015

Peter King said:
Tricking a man into pregnancy is morally wrong, but usually this only happens if a man has sex with a woman. So he is partly responsible (not to blame or at fault) for the pregnancy being able to take place, even though she tricked/cheated him into getting her pregnant and that is something that a woman should not be allowed to do IMHO but how do you prove trickery? A punctured condom? Tricked him into having sex?

And how are you going to punish that? It may be morally wrong but what laws have been broken exactly? The punishment is that he is not going to marry her. Getting pregnant does not get her her ring. The man giving in even though he knows he was tricked into pregnancy is the only way she is getting that ring.

But this is not the same thing as subjecting woman to a cocktail of anti-abortion drugs and interfering/poisoning a woman as has happened here. That is not just a bit wrong, that is also illegal and she has suffered in a manner that is criminal assault on her by this guy.

I don't equate the two, and I agree with your take.

Peter King · Mar 12, 2015

Crovax said:
Just a man exercises his right to choose

If he wanted to choose, he should have either chosen to make himself infertile or not have had sex with a woman. That is a right to choose for men. This has nothing to do with right to choose, this is a case of poisoning/GBH/assault on a woman.

Lursa · Mar 12, 2015

CanadaJohn said:
And again, you distort what I post so that you have something to bleat about.

The honour is in admitting he committed the crime, pleading guilty, and accepting his punishment. He didn't make any emotional or other excuses. Accepting responsibility for your mistakes is honorable, even if the mistake was dishonorable.

There is no honor in that. *He got caught.* It's not like he had much choice...likely they would have proven his guilt anyway and he has no choice in accepting his punishment.

I'm pretty sure he does not regret his actions either....there is zero honor in his behavior and it's disturbing that such thought might be passed on to other young men (or women.)

CanadaJohn · Mar 12, 2015

Lursa said:
There is no honor in that. *He got caught.* It's not like he had much choice...likely they would have proven his guilt anyway and he has no choice in accepting his punishment.

I'm pretty sure he does not regret his actions either....there is zero honor in his behavior and it's disturbing that such thought might be passed on to other young men (or women.)

Not interested in addressing your fabrication of an argument so you can bleat away all night.

Goodnight.

Scrabaholic · Mar 12, 2015

CanadaJohn said:
The honour is in admitting he committed the crime, pleading guilty, and accepting his punishment. He didn't make any emotional or other excuses. Accepting responsibility for your mistakes is honorable, even if the mistake was dishonorable.

The question is - was it done for altruistic reasons? Could be he knew he'd never win if it went to trial and judges tend to go easier on people if they plead guilty and save the taxpayers the cost of a trial as well as save the victims the emotional pain of testifying.

Peter King · Mar 12, 2015

Fletch said:
Its not like there was a child in there so I don't see how he committed a crime in that regard. In fact, he helped remove something that was 'enslaving' her. Too bad for him there weren't enough abortionists on the jury.

:roll: :bs

I am pro-choice and this has nothing to do with being pro-choice. Being pro-choice is agreeing with a woman's right to choose, not agreeing to attempted murder/grievous bodily harm/assault/termination of pregnancy against a woman's choice.

CanadaJohn · Mar 12, 2015

Scrabaholic said:
The question is - was it done for altruistic reasons? Could be he knew he'd never win if it went to trial and judges tend to go easier on people if they plead guilty and save the taxpayers the cost of a trial as well as save the victims the emotional pain of testifying.

No doubt - and that would have a level of honour to it as well. Lots of people charged with crimes waste court time on lost causes and lots of people who commit crimes against women like to see them struggle with testifying and like to see them hurt again that way. Avoiding both has some honour attached. Doing something honorable doesn't have to cause you personal harm.

Peter King · Mar 12, 2015

Fletch said:
Was her life and health at risk? I suppose this would be a form of assault, but nothing more.

Sorry, but in the US crimes against a pregnant woman or a man who tries to destroy/abort a pregnancy against the wishes of the woman is guilty of terminating a pregnancy against a woman's wish by means of poisoning. He is also guilty of giving someone medicines against her wishes and risking her life because she got a medical cocktail without it having been prescribed for her, etc. etc. etc.

This man is just a horrendous excuse for a person and needs to be punished accordingly.

Lursa · Mar 12, 2015

CanadaJohn said:
Not interested in addressing your fabrication of an argument so you can bleat away all night.

Goodnight.

No worries. I'm pretty sure the posts speak clearly for themselves.

(I fabricated nothing, at least dont lie)

Jerry · Mar 12, 2015

Lursa said:
And do you believe that's justified?

My statment? Yes I do. The only right anyone truly has is to decide one's aditude, to persue happiness, as the Constitution says.

Lursa said:
Anybody who murders someone breeches the sovereignty of their bodies...tough luck tho, huh?

Please keep the hyperbolic lingo to a minimum.

What he did violated her right to persue happiness, no doubt, but her actions also violated his pursuit of happiness. There's no winner here, no good guy. 2 people got together and each made a problem for the other. Forcing a miscarriage is no diferent than bearing a child the father doesn't want. The only true victim here is the unborn as it was screwed no matter what.

Aunt Spiker · Mar 12, 2015

Jerry said:
Access to food is not so difficult a thing. "Hey let's go out and talk about having this baby". He's familiar and she felt safe around him even-though the intimate relationship failed, she had a sense of security. She'll eventually drop her guard, women always do, all he had to do was be ready when an opportunity presented itself.

I wonder how long he waited for an opening before she finally stepped away from a smoothie; you can't just put that stuff into any drink, it has a taste. Dropping it into, say, a fountain drink wouldn't do at all.

The last person who's ever going to come within ten feet of my food is my ex who wanted me to abort my baby.

Scrabaholic said:
I wondered the same thing, especially since he had tried it before. However, what he did was still wrong.

Yeah - I'm not sure whether she knew it or not, if he really did it or if he just claimed he did it before. I don't follow - not enough facts.

Jerry · Mar 12, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
So I'm supposed to be less appalled...

I wasn't addressing how you feel. I was addressing your accusation that he was excusing what he did. Feel however you like but when someone accepts responsibility for their actions, their reasons are not excuses.

1750Texan · Mar 12, 2015

Fletch said:
Was her life and health at risk? I suppose this would be a form of assault, but nothing more.

Of course he did...OMG.

He gave her a drug without any training to understand her physiology, know if the drug would have any contraindication with any other medications she may be on....or if the drug could have had serious effects on or exacerbated any health problems she may have had...for start.

That alone should get him prison time.

Jerry · Mar 12, 2015

Lursa said:
Only after he got caught.

You don't know that he fled at all. For all we know he took her to the emergency room himself and then waited for the police. OP doesn't give those details.

Lursa said:
He certainly attempted to avoid the responsibility of being a father.

The pregnancy was miscarried, he succeeded.

Jerry · Mar 12, 2015

1750Texan said:
Of course he did...OMG.

He gave her a drug without any training to understand her physiology, know if the drug would have any contraindication with any other medications she may be on....or if the drug could have had serious effects on or exacerbated any health problems she may have had...for start.

That alone should get him prison time.

It will. I understand he's facing a few charges, one being some kind of tampering or misuse of medication. The law is set up to measure an offence by the harm it causes, and in this case it basically made the woman sick, and then she recovered. That's a crime, sure, but not the end of the world.

If this had occurred in the US he would be facing a life sentence under the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

Fletch · Mar 12, 2015

Lursa said:
You know that she didnt experience, back pain, cramps, vomiting? (pretty much that's the *minimum* harm.) Didnt miss work? Or school? Didnt have to pay medical bills?

He took careless license with and completely disregarded *her life.* He deserves serious jail time.

Makes for a good example, a deterrant, for others who might consider it too.

Deter others from doing what? Whats so special about this case? Some guy slips a drug in a womans drink and its global news??

Fletch · Mar 12, 2015

Peter King said:
:roll: :bs

I am pro-choice and this has nothing to do with being pro-choice. Being pro-choice is agreeing with a woman's right to choose, not agreeing to attempted murder/grievous bodily harm/assault/termination of pregnancy against a woman's choice.

Then why is it in the abortion forum?

Peter King · Mar 12, 2015

Fletch said:
Then why is it in the abortion forum?

Maybe to indicate that there is a difference between abortion and illegally ending someone's pregnancy against her will. Being pro-choice is not being pro-ending of pregnancies.

Lursa · Mar 12, 2015

Jerry said:
My statment? Yes I do. The only right anyone truly has is to decide one's aditude, to persue happiness, as the Constitution says.

Please keep the hyperbolic lingo to a minimum.

What he did violated her right to persue happiness, no doubt, but her actions also violated his pursuit of happiness. There's no winner here, no good guy. 2 people got together and each made a problem for the other. Forcing a miscarriage is no diferent than bearing a child the father doesn't want. The only true victim here is the unborn as it was screwed no matter what.

No, he invaded her bodily sovereignty...without her consent, and did her harm. (And since women can die from being improperly fed drugs and from miscarriages, murder is by no means 'hyperbole')

She didnt force him to have sex, so she didnt violate any of his rights.

And forcing something on a woman that could kill her is different than having a man pay child support. It could also make her sterile. (I'm sure you and he dont care about that but apparently she wanted kids) Sorry you dont see that.

They both took risks...the consequences for both were *known.* He chose to break the law AND harm her in order to avoid his consequences.

Hard to believe you and others are attempting to justify his actions.

Lursa · Mar 12, 2015

Jerry said:
You don't know that he fled at all. For all we know he took her to the emergency room himself and then waited for the police. OP doesn't give those details.

The pregnancy was miscarried, he succeeded.

I never said he fled. And if he did take her to the ER as you speculate, then it would have only been to save himself from even worse consequences when his drugging went bad. Completely self-serving. I'm sure other people knew they were seeing each other and he would have been a suspect.

And the comment was on avoiding responsibility....his choice was taken away from him....the odds of him 'turning himself in' are negligible at best. Once caught, he only sought to reduce his punishment. No responsibility shown at all.

Lursa · Mar 12, 2015

Fletch said:
Deter others from doing what? Whats so special about this case? Some guy slips a drug in a womans drink and its global news??

Odd that this has to be explained to you but: drugging women to induce miscarriages.

And if it's not significant, you didnt have to respond to the thread.

SmokeAndMirrors · Mar 12, 2015

I am completely amazed that any number of the anti-choice and abortion-judgmental see a woman getting an abortion on her own terms to be so abhorrent, but will go to the ends of the earth to defend a man poisoning a woman's pregnancy without her consent.

Reason number 3459843758247528495 why I don't believe the anti-choice when they say they care about children.

kerussll · Mar 12, 2015

Jerry said:
This thread isn't about rape.

No, but the whole bodily autonomy thing is pretty relevant. Nobody is within their rights exercising their choice by drugging someone else, or doing anything else to someone else's body.

Thrilla · Mar 12, 2015

it's an incredibly ****ty thing to do... he needs to have some alone time behind bars to think about what he did.

the dude probably figured whatever sentence he got if he got caught would be preferable to 18 years of child support.
a "lesser of 2 evils" thing....

Man tricked ex into miscarriage with abortion-pill smoothie

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative

Peter King

Lursa

Tenacious

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative

Scrabaholic

certified batshit crazy

Peter King

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative

Peter King

Lursa

Tenacious

Jerry

Aunt Spiker

Cheese

Jerry

1750Texan

Jerry

Jerry

Fletch

Fletch

Peter King

Lursa

Tenacious

Lursa

Tenacious

Lursa

Tenacious

SmokeAndMirrors

kerussll

Thrilla