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Pro-Choice Is An Abusive-Male Oriented Ideology [W:113]

Only a liberal would call reality "fantasy land".

Are you unfamiliar with the structure of the federal govt? (apparently yes)

:eek:t

"LIBERAL"...USC somebody has seriously messed with your noggin. Sounds like your ready for another Civil War in America between the conservatives and the liberals.

Wake up, USC...you live in a country founded on diversity. It thrives on diversity. But you want to change what made America great. Turn it into the perfect conservative world.

Your world is already small enough...

I don't know who convinced you that there is a true conservative population in our governments who care a billy-damn about you or any other conservative. The same applies to liberal. Nobody in our governments who call themselves liberals care about their liberal constituents.

They only care about the institution in which they control everybody else.

Sad...sad...sad for you, USC. Join America again...how about it?
 
:eek:t

"LIBERAL"...USC somebody has seriously messed with your noggin. Sounds like your ready for another Civil War in America between the conservatives and the liberals.

Wake up, USC...you live in a country founded on diversity. It thrives on diversity. But you want to change what made America great. Turn it into the perfect conservative world.

Your world is already small enough...

I don't know who convinced you that there is a true conservative population in our governments who care a billy-damn about you or any other conservative. The same applies to liberal. Nobody in our governments who call themselves liberals care about their liberal constituents.

They only care about the institution in which they control everybody else.

Sad...sad...sad for you, USC. Join America again...how about it?

You assume that conservatism is antithetical to "diversity". Watch how hard my eyes roll: :roll::roll::roll:
Im a southern californian-tell me about diversity, son. On that note, you appear to accept as a given the lefts dogma that "diversity" in and of itself is some enchanted panacea. Its not, nor are the identity politics the left seeks to hide behind.

Where did I say there were conservatives in govt who care about me? Is that why I, as a conservative-want the majority of govt as it exists today cut? So that those imaginary benevolent bureaucrats and politicians can "take care of liberals" like the left looks after the right? Insert more eye rolls here.

Govt IS control, so to diminish the control they have on US, we must diminish IT.

Welcome to the world.
 
You assume that conservatism is antithetical to "diversity". Watch how hard my eyes roll: :roll::roll::roll:
Im a southern californian-tell me about diversity, son. On that note, you appear to accept as a given the lefts dogma that "diversity" in and of itself is some enchanted panacea. Its not, nor are the identity politics the left seeks to hide behind.

Where did I say there were conservatives in govt who care about me? Is that why I, as a conservative-want the majority of govt as it exists today cut? So that those imaginary benevolent bureaucrats and politicians can "take care of liberals" like the left looks after the right? Insert more eye rolls here.

Govt IS control, so to diminish the control they have on US, we must diminish IT.

Welcome to the world.

Okay Mr Conservative...I see there's no getting through without being accused of Liberalism.

You must be NavyPrides next door neighbor.

We've used too much OFF TOPIC TIME...

Good luck
 
Govt IS control, so to diminish the control they have on US, we must diminish IT.
You have fallen victim to talking points no doubt from right wing pundits.
You state that government is control as if some aliens have come and imposed said government on us, while ignoring the reality that WE are our government. It is us, our brothers and sisters, our relatives, our neighbors and friends that we send to represent us and when they suck as they do now it is because we suck, they are a reflection of US. If we want better WE have to be better. WE have to learn and understand what we face what to possible solutions are and the possible methods to achieve them, until then the status quo remains.
As for the control, WE have to control ourselves more individually in order to reduce the imposed controls by society, but as long as we allow, because of ignorance, lack of education, corruption etc. etc. money to corrupt politics we will always have, well what we have now.
 
You have fallen victim to talking points no doubt from right wing pundits.
You state that government is control as if some aliens have come and imposed said government on us, while ignoring the reality that WE are our government.

Look around, note the approval numbers, most people dont feel govt represents them. Do you?

I agree govt is us-but only in the sense that it is what we let it be-and most Americans are as uninformed as they are disinterested. THIS is what we get.
 
Anyone else worried that this thread might spontaneously become self-aware and try to take over the world at any moment?

Just me then? :lol:
 
Look around, note the approval numbers, most people dont feel govt represents them. Do you?
I are right and I do not, but We should have made better choices.

I agree govt is us-but only in the sense that it is what we let it be-and most Americans are as uninformed as they are disinterested. THIS is what we get.
Exactly so.
 
Anyone else worried that this thread might spontaneously become self-aware and try to take over the world at any moment?

Just me then? :lol:

You got caught in the black hole with my fellow pro choicers for like what now 2 or 3 months? :lol:

Don't get pulled in again.
 
I was going to post a comment on this last night, but lost track of it. Yesterday, I was listening to a CBC episode of The Current on my Ipod which dealt with the new managerial fad - Holacracy....which is supposed to be a new way of organizing a company hierarchy away from top down lines of authority to something that allows equal participation. The problem is that there has been a steady long line of new advice and new programs to fix whatever is wrong with the company as far back as the 70's and 80's, which succeeded in ending a lot of the jobs of middle management and little else!

In the mid-80's, when I was a lowly furnace worker for an abrasives manufacturing company in Niagara Falls, they got on the "Quality Control" bandwagon. At the time, there was a panic that the Japanese were taking over the world and outproducing and outperforming the U.S., so management advisers were making a killing by studying and trying to apply some of the Japanese management techniques. The problem was that North American companies were only interested in fixing product reliability numbers so they could make more money. The Japanese system had a clear hierarchy of management that was based on subtle and intangible cultural factors that were demonstrated by little quirks such as how low one person bowed when addressing the other. These are things that are a big deal in Japanese culture which could not translate over here. And no doubt were a big part of the reason why someone would aspire to management and executive class in Japan, without seeking a much higher pay or living status than lower ranking employees. Also, westerners were shocked that a CEO would pick up a broom and sweep the shop floor if it was dirty, rather than ordering an underling to do it. I think we figured out how it would work out when the executive name plates were taken off of the parking spaces under the small roofed area of the parking lot for the managers...so supposedly everyone driving to work was equal....except that anyone new who parked under the roof was quickly informed by a foreman or an engineer that the covered section was still for management!

I think the quirks of Japanese culture are one of the reasons why there has been far less income stratification than in the U.S. and elsewhere, compared to other industrialized nations. In "The Spirit Level" Richard Wilkinson notes that the income gap between ceo and plant worker is equivalent to Sweden, although the relative equality in Sweden is accomplished through progressive taxation, while in Japan, it has been accomplished by a lack of executive salary increases compared to the west.

As for that Holacracy thing I mentioned earlier...my primary skepticism of this comes from searching through their website and all of the rhetoric about inclusion and participation, and finding nothing addressing the money! This is where the rubber meets the road, because a lot of people working on the shop floor of a factory, a metal fabricator, or even service jobs in retail and restaurants know where the money is going when the business is profitable....and it is not into their pay packets! The fundamental problem of capitalism is that workers have to produce excess value for their work for a company to be profitable. And when the company is profitable, the value of their work is harvested by the directors at the top of the corporation! At one time, unions had more power to push back against greedy managers and executives, and we even played the major role in raising non-union wages and improving working conditions. Right now, capitalism has unshacked itself from any restraints applied by workers, and we're back to the pre-depression Guilded Age.

For my part, my primary objection to a system of capitalism is that it doesn't seem to exist without the need for growth. As I understand the situation today in the world from an environmental perspective, we don't have room for more economic growth, and that's why capitalism has become increasingly a game of seizing wealth from others. If there is a road to the future, it will come through zero growth or no growth economics that is not dependent on constant priming of consumers to demand new and more products for no good reason. The best way to organize large scale production of needed products in a no growth future will come through workplace democracy...using the Mondragon Cooperatives of Spain as a template, where the workplace is organized as a democratic society and each worker has a vote and a share in the profits. Democracy At Work info.

I'm not disagreeing on a lot of things. However, it is important to note that capitalism just doesn't work the same way everywhere, and there are better models than the US. In Japan, the traditional view of business is quite different from the one here. There, the most important thing a business can do is keep existing, and the next important thing is provide for the needs of all the people who work in it. Paying back investors is part of continuing to exist, but giving them a profit is secondary to providing for the living needs of the workers.

If the head of a company is not the owner, then he or she is just an employee, too, and may have a lot of perks while doing the job, but at retirement he or she isn't a worker any more. The pay scale is at least partly seniority based and is much fairer, while the attitude toward providing investment return is much more realistic.

The Japanese are not alone in this at all. It is specifically in the US that performance-based reward is an excuse for overpaying CEOs and upper management. No one in their right mind believes that the people at the top are uniquely responsible for the value appreciation of the company. And to be fair, some US companies do not follow a strategy of undervaluing ordinary workers and overvaluing upper management, though it is fair to say that overvaluation of investors characterizes the US economy.

We can't solve the problem until it is recognized that a decent company provides for the living needs of its workers or it's nothing but a bloodsucker. I think one good way would be for all companies to make their internal hierarchy of pay scales public. That way, people patronizing businesses will be able to decide whether or not they want to patronize a business based on its hierarchy of pay. Pay hierarchies could be used an advertising point to make companies that overpay upper management unfashionable and companies with more democratic pay hierarchies "in."
 
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