• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Legitimacy

Fledermaus said:
No, i got it.

Legal System does not mean Legal System.

Given the context of the elections the response to idea the Legal System (SCOTUS) gave the presidency to the Republicans is justified given the hand-wringer cries in 2000 and the recounts of 2016.


Just making sure you aren't one of those.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what that means.
 
haymarket said:
Except the justification here has been its the legal system that elected Trump and everybody is simply suppose to bend over the table and take it because of that. So lets face reality and not try to couch this in incites about history and the law and preserving the union.
Click to expand...

Is the USA a nation of laws or of anarchy?

You seem to be campaigning in favor of anarchy.
 
haymarket said:
Where have I endorsed anarchy?
Click to expand...

We either have laws and the enforcement of laws or we have a departure from our form of government.

I suppose the continuance of the moves away from Constitutionality does not lead straight to anarchy, but it's a good first step.
 
code1211 said:
We either have laws and the enforcement of laws or we have a departure from our form of government.

I suppose the continuance of the moves away from Constitutionality does not lead straight to anarchy, but it's a good first step.
Click to expand...

How is changing the Constitution a move away from the Constitution since the Founders themselves gave us that very methodology?
 
Fledermaus said:
WOW - Many days with zero phone/data access.

And yes. We did agree you have no idea.

Nor does it appear you have gained knowledge while I was incommunicado.
Click to expand...

You have utterly failed to provide any support for your claims. That is NOT my fault. It is entirely upon you.
 
haymarket said:
You have utterly failed to provide any support for your claims. That is NOT my fault. It is entirely upon you.
Click to expand...

Keep crying about that.

Please.

Once i have non phone access I will be happy to provide the links you are incapable finding on your own that you can ignore at your leisure.
 
Fledermaus said:
Keep crying about that.
Click to expand...

Demanding evidence from you for over a week now is not crying about anything. ITs about you not being able to debate.

And in other breaking news, the sun set in the west tonight......
 
Glowpun said:
If Putin's meddling in the US election tipped the scale in favor of Trump, does not that make Trump's presidency questionable?

Why is Trump so eager to downplay that possibility?
Click to expand...

His presidency in not questionable, going to need a whole lot more data and facts to support the claims before one can even consider his presidency being questionable. I would also add even had Putin meddled in the US election there is still no proof that they actually effected the outcome in any way what so ever. I am no supporter of trump but so far as I can tell he won fair and square, and until someone can Prove he somehow cheated or other cheated for him and that is why he got elected he will be the next President of the United States of America. The ball is in the court of those accusing and in this case I would say they need to come up with some serious proof real quick or this will be looked as simply more sore loser complaining. And for those that are getting giddy over the idea that trump might get kicked out of office over this I will remind you of two things, one is that such an situation would seriously harm our election system and they may be what some intended and two if trump is removed the VP steps up to the position, clue he is very conservative and in the long run it might turn out to be the worse option for those with a liberal bent.
Personally I hope this all turns out to be nothing, this Nation does not need another scandal and I would also add such an act by Putin can be viewed as an act of war and many of us are tired of endless wars and one with Russia would be as costly as they come. Be careful what you wish for, You just might get it.
 
haymarket said:
Demanding evidence from you for over a week now is not crying about anything. ITs about you not being able to debate.

And in other breaking news, the sun set in the west tonight......
Click to expand...

Stein abandoning the legitimate attempt at recount and opting for lawsuit.
Jill Stein says she'll 'escalate' Pennsylvania recount case after earlier plans to drop it - CNNPolitics.com

Stein then fails at that lawsuit:
Jill Stein Supporters Drop Pennsylvania Recount Suit - WSJ

Additional info:

In his 31-page decision, U.S. District Judge Paul Diamond said there were at least six grounds that required him to reject the Green Party's lawsuit, which had been opposed by Trump, the Pennsylvania Republican Party and the Pennsylvania attorney general's office.

Suspicion of a hacked Pennsylvania election "borders on the irrational," wrote Diamond, an appointee of former President George W. Bush, a Republican.

"Most importantly, there is no credible evidence that any `hack' occurred, and compelling evidence that Pennsylvania's voting system was not in any way compromised," Diamond wrote. He also said the lawsuit suffered from a lack of standing, potentially the lack of federal jurisdiction and an "unexplained, highly prejudicial" wait before filing last week's lawsuit, four weeks after the Nov. 8 election.
Federal judge rejects push for Pennsylvania recount | Fox News

Michigan recount halted
In her motion, Stein had argued against a Tuesday ruling by the State of Michigan Court of Appeals in favor of stopping the recount. That court concluded Stein was not an aggrieved party since she had no reasonable chance of winning by virtue of the recount.
Michigan recount halted - CNNPolitics.com

And the capo di tutto Capi of fails....

Wisconsin Recount Update: Jill Stein Spent $53K Per Extra Vote
The required $3.5 million payment that triggered Wisconsin’s presidential election recount came in just under the wire.

Stein gained 66 votes in the recount—meaning she essentially spent $53,030 per vote gained. Donald Trump gained 131 votes over Hillary Clinton in the recount.
Wisconsin Recount Update: Jill Stein Spent $53K Per Extra Vote Gained
 
Fledermaus said:
Stein abandoning the legitimate attempt at recount and opting for lawsuit.
Jill Stein says she'll 'escalate' Pennsylvania recount case after earlier plans to drop it - CNNPolitics.com

Stein then fails at that lawsuit:
Jill Stein Supporters Drop Pennsylvania Recount Suit - WSJ

Additional info:

In his 31-page decision, U.S. District Judge Paul Diamond said there were at least six grounds that required him to reject the Green Party's lawsuit, which had been opposed by Trump, the Pennsylvania Republican Party and the Pennsylvania attorney general's office.

Suspicion of a hacked Pennsylvania election "borders on the irrational," wrote Diamond, an appointee of former President George W. Bush, a Republican.

"Most importantly, there is no credible evidence that any `hack' occurred, and compelling evidence that Pennsylvania's voting system was not in any way compromised," Diamond wrote. He also said the lawsuit suffered from a lack of standing, potentially the lack of federal jurisdiction and an "unexplained, highly prejudicial" wait before filing last week's lawsuit, four weeks after the Nov. 8 election.
Federal judge rejects push for Pennsylvania recount | Fox News

Michigan recount halted
In her motion, Stein had argued against a Tuesday ruling by the State of Michigan Court of Appeals in favor of stopping the recount. That court concluded Stein was not an aggrieved party since she had no reasonable chance of winning by virtue of the recount.
Michigan recount halted - CNNPolitics.com

And the capo di tutto Capi of fails....

Wisconsin Recount Update: Jill Stein Spent $53K Per Extra Vote
The required $3.5 million payment that triggered Wisconsin’s presidential election recount came in just under the wire.

Stein gained 66 votes in the recount—meaning she essentially spent $53,030 per vote gained. Donald Trump gained 131 votes over Hillary Clinton in the recount.
Wisconsin Recount Update: Jill Stein Spent $53K Per Extra Vote Gained
Click to expand...

Where does the recount statues in those states say the you needed the things to have a recount that these judges cited for reasons to dismiss the process?
 
Fledermaus said:
Stein abandoning the legitimate attempt at recount and opting for lawsuit.
Click to expand...

Here is the Michigan language



S
TATE OF
M
ICHIGAN

BUREAU OF ELECTIONS
L
ANSING

BUREAU OF ELECTIONS RICHARD H. AUSTIN BUILDING

1ST FLOOR

430 W. ALLEGAN

LANSING, MICHIGAN 48918 www.Michigan.gov/elections

(800) 292-5973
August 2015
-ELECTION RECOUNTS-
A candidate for a federal, state, county, city, township, village or school office who believes that the canvass of the votes cast on the office may be incorrect because of possible “fraud or mistake” in the precinct returns may petition for a recount of the votes cast in the precincts involved. Candidates seeking a precinct delegate position do not have the right to petition for a recount. (MCL 168.862; 168.879)

So Where does it give the reasons the judges in Michigan cited?
 
Fledermaus said:
Stein abandoning the legitimate attempt at recount and opting for lawsuit.
Click to expand...


MICHIGAN ELECTION LAW (EXCERPT)
Act 116 of 1954

168.879 Petition for recount; requirements; petition by state political party chairperson; recount and preservation of ballots; report; authority of legislature.
Sec. 879.

(1) A candidate voted for at a primary or election for an office may petition for a recount of the votes if all of the following requirements are met:

(a) The office is an office for which the votes are canvassed by the board of state canvassers under section 841 or is the office of representative in Congress, state representative, or state senator for a district located wholly within 1 county.

(b) The petition alleges that the candidate is aggrieved on account of fraud or mistake in the canvass of the votes by the inspectors of election or the returns made by the inspectors, or by a board of county canvassers or the board of state canvassers. The petition shall contain specific allegations of wrongdoing only if evidence of that wrongdoing is available to the petitioner. If evidence of wrongdoing is not available, the petitioner is only required to allege fraud or a mistake in the petition without further specification.

(c) Except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, the petition for a recount is filed not later than 48 hours following the completion of the canvass of votes cast at an election. If the recount petition relates to a state senatorial or representative district located wholly within 1 county or to the district of a representative in Congress located wholly within 1 county, the petition for a recount shall be filed not later than 48 hours following the adjournment of the meeting of the board of state canvassers at which the certificate of determination for that office was recorded pursuant to section 841. However, for a special election for representative in Congress, state senator, or state representative for a district located wholly within 1 county, the petition for recount shall be filed not later than 48 hours after the certificate of determination is filed with the secretary of the board of state canvassers.

(d) The petition is presented to and filed with the secretary of state.

(e) The petition is written or printed and is signed and sworn to by the candidate.

(f) The petition sets forth as nearly as possible the nature and character of the fraud or mistakes alleged and the counties, cities, or townships and the precincts in which they exist.

(g) The petition specifies the counties, cities, townships, and precincts in which the recount is requested.

(h) If the office is the office of state representative, a copy of the petition is filed with the clerk of the house of representatives. If the office is the office of state senator, a copy of the petition shall be filed with the secretary of the senate.

(2) If a state senatorial race is determined by a vote differential of 500 votes or less or a state representative race is determined by a vote differential of 200 votes or less, the chairperson of a state political party may petition for a recount of the votes on behalf of a candidate in that race in the manner prescribed in subsection (1). Notwithstanding subsection (1)(b) and (f), the petition filed under this subsection need not allege fraud or mistake. Notwithstanding subsection (1)(e), the petition shall be signed by the chairperson of the state political party filing the petition under this subsection.

(3) The ballots in a precinct petitioned for recount in a legislative contest shall be recounted for that office by the board of state canvassers and shall be preserved until the contest is disposed of under the rules of the legislative body that takes office beginning in January following the contested general election. In legislative recounts of a special general election, ballots in a precinct petitioned for recount shall be preserved until the contest is disposed of under the rules of the legislative body serving at the time the report in subsection (4) is filed.

(4) Upon the completion of a recount for a legislative office, the board of state canvassers, in addition to the certification required by section 892, shall forward to the appropriate legislative body a report of the results of the recount.

(5) This section does not limit the authority of the legislature under section 16 of article IV of the state constitution of 1963.
Click to expand...

Where in the Michigan law governing recounts is the reason you cited for the Court dismissing the Stein suit?
 
Last edited:
Glowpun said:
If Putin's meddling in the US election tipped the scale in favor of Trump, does not that make Trump's presidency questionable?

Why is Trump so eager to downplay that possibility?
Click to expand...

No......
 
haymarket said:
Here is the Michigan language



S
TATE OF
M
ICHIGAN

BUREAU OF ELECTIONS
L
ANSING

BUREAU OF ELECTIONS RICHARD H. AUSTIN BUILDING

1ST FLOOR

430 W. ALLEGAN

LANSING, MICHIGAN 48918 SOS Elections Redirect

(800) 292-5973
August 2015
-ELECTION RECOUNTS-
A candidate for a federal, state, county, city, township, village or school office who believes that the canvass of the votes cast on the office may be incorrect because of possible “fraud or mistake” in the precinct returns may petition for a recount of the votes cast in the precincts involved. Candidates seeking a precinct delegate position do not have the right to petition for a recount. (MCL 168.862; 168.879)

So Where does it give the reasons the judges in Michigan cited?
Click to expand...

Got “fraud or mistake” in Michigan?

Other than the precincts won by Hillary that is.
 
Fledermaus said:
Ask the judges.

You whined about references.

Once able to I gave you references.
Click to expand...

I am NOT debating the judges.I am debating you and your claims. So where in the recount law is the support for the actions of the judges canceling and aborting the recounts?
 
Fledermaus said:
Got “fraud or mistake” in Michigan?

Other than the precincts won by Hillary that is.
Click to expand...

And what that the reasons the Michigan court cited? Not according not you and your earlier source.

That court concluded Stein was not an aggrieved party since she had no reasonable chance of winning by virtue of the recount.
Click to expand...

Where in the Michigan recount law does it say anything about that?

It is pretty obvious that any candidate who requests a recount believes a mistake has been made. If not, they would never ask for it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom