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From WashPo: Americans believe crazy things

Lafayette said:
Romania was a typical example of a communist country that just couldn't shake its past. Subsequent governments were not as evil as the Ceausescu family, but neither were they any less incompetent.

Romanian workers here in France are pretty good, but it is sad what is happening in their country. As they tell me ...
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The Romanians I dealt with were very good. I had some programming done down there and was all over the country for pleasure and business. Though Romania is poor, there are a number of other countries and regions around the continent with miserable average income.
 
Captain Adverse said:
First, this is an OPINION piece, not a news article.

Second, there were 1376 participants; 547 identified as Democrats, 501 as Independents, and 325 as Republicans. Not a very representative example IMO.

Just more SJW "look how crazy people are who didn't vote the correct way" demonization. :coffeepap:
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Yep. Here we go again...

One would think that pollsters...and the people who believe polls...would have learned their lesson when Hillary lost despite all those bogus polls that said she was going to win.
 
Mycroft said:
Yep. Here we go again...

One would think that pollsters...and the people who believe polls...would have learned their lesson when Hillary lost despite all those bogus polls that said she was going to win.
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Yeah, here we go again. Of course any poll that supports their favored narrative(s) is OK, where as any poll that doesn't is flawed rubbish.
I wonder where they missed the statistics, damn statistics, and lying statistics (hint: it's always in the interpretation - and right there should be everyone's first clue).
 
Mycroft said:
Yep. Here we go again...

One would think that pollsters...and the people who believe polls...would have learned their lesson when Hillary lost despite all those bogus polls that said she was going to win.
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The polls were not bogus. She did win the popular vote!

She lost in the Electoral College. Donald Dork is the sixth American PotUS to lose the popular vote and still get elected. All of them were "election accidents" that happened in the bogus winner-take-all Electoral College.

And nobody gives a fig.

That's politics in a America. Because without passion to fight unfairness, we are left to live with banality.

I can only imagine the number of Americans who think, "Well, there's nothing we can really do about it!"

When, in fact, they have no real burning fire to make the effort. I'd like to think it is generational. That this latest one coming of age, having been frustrated by Hillary's loss, will wake up and make the necessary effort.

But, the problem in the US is that solutions must be immediate because long-term efforts do not foster sufficient enthusiasm. And changing peoples' mindsets is always a long-term effort, which gets very boring in a nation where history is five minutes ago and ancient history is yesterday ...
 
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eohrnberger said:
Yeah, here we go again. Of course any poll that supports their favored narrative(s) is OK, where as any poll that doesn't is flawed rubbish.
I wonder where they missed the statistics, damn statistics, and lying statistics (hint: it's always in the interpretation - and right there should be everyone's first clue).
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The forecasters didn't miss anything. The polls were taken amongst voters.

Only a nitwit cannot recognize that Hillary won the popular vote as was predicted in the polls. She did not win the popular vote in the "right states".

Try explaining that to anyone who votes anywhere else other than the US and expect a dumbfounded look of incomprehension on their faces ...
 
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Lafayette said:
The forecasters didn't miss anything. The polls were taken amongst voters.

Only a nitwit cannot recognize that Hillary won the popular vote as was predicted in the polls. She did not win the popular vote in the "right states".

Try explaining that to anyone who votes anywhere else other than the US and expect a dumbfounded look of incomprehension on their faces ...
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According to Real Clear politics basket of polls, only 3 polls had Trump winning, 55 had Clinton winning and 3 were tied.

She lost Pennsylvania, but why let facts get in the way of a good narrative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Lafayette said:
The polls were not bogus. She did win the popular vote!

She lost in the Electoral College. Donald Dork is the sixth American PotUS to lose the popular vote and still get elected. All of them were "election accidents" that happened in the bogus winner-take-all Electoral College.

~snipped your angst-filled whine-fest because...well, because I just don't give a rat's ass about your hyperbole~
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No...your spin, while it sounds good and makes you feel better, is wrong. The bogus polls told everyone that Hillary was going to win. The polls only left one question open: What Red States should Hillary take away from Trump? Turns out those bogus polls that everyone believed in hid the fact that it would be TRUMP taking Blue States away from Hillary. And she lost because of it.

You might remember that, right up till the end, those polls showed that Hillary would soundly defeat Trump in the Electoral College. They were wrong. They were bogus.

The only really crazy thing any Americans still believe in is polls.
 
Mycroft said:
They were wrong. They were bogus.

The only really crazy thing any Americans still believe in is polls.
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The polls were not wrong , and not "bogus". Clinton won the popular vote.

In political campaigns they are good uniquely for the moment at which they are taken - and especially this election that was replete with drama up to the last minute. She lost the presidency in the Electoral College, that misfit of an electoral device that is more-than-ever showing its deceptional utility.

Watch your language, and buy a dictionary!

Some nerds on this forum think they can say anything they like because "it's a free country". Maybe the US is indeed a "free country", and that too is debatable! But that does not allow anyone to mess with the English language.

Understanding one another is hard enough without your kind of blogging-demagoguery! (Yeah - look that one up yourself ... !)
 
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AliHajiSheik said:
... but why let facts get in the way of a good narrative
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And how are "the facts" getting in the way of blog-exchange, pray tell? Hillary won the popular vote, and lost in the Electoral College proving that "real democracy" is more than just faulty in America. It is unjust as well!

Get this: First past the post, winner-take-all voting is NOT a democratic way to elect anyone to public office. Never was, never will be! Period!

It is an unfair election device to obtain a clear and supposedly incontestable election result.

To each their own "narrative", mine included ...
 
Lafayette said:
The polls were not wrong , and not "bogus". Clinton won the popular vote.

In political campaigns they are good uniquely for the moment at which they are taken - and especially this election that was replete with drama up to the last minute. She lost the presidency in the Electoral College, that misfit of an electoral device that is more-than-ever showing its deceptional utility.

Watch your language, and buy a dictionary!

Some nerds on this forum think they can say anything they like because "it's a free country". Maybe the US is indeed a "free country", and that too is debatable! But that does not allow anyone to mess with the English language.

Understanding one another is hard enough without your kind of blogging-demagoguery! (Yeah - look that one up yourself ... !)
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They were wrong. They were bogus.

I pointed that out numerous times before the election. I showed how they were wrong. I predicted Trump for the win. I was correct. Those who believed the polls were wrong...including Hillary. She campaigned based on her belief in those bogus polls and based on her own hubris...and she lost.

About our electoral system...the Electoral College...regardless your opinion of that process, it IS our process. It is established in our Constitution. Anyone campaigning for President MUST keep that process in mind. Campaigning to win an irrelevant popular vote is useless. The popular vote will not get a candidate elected. Trump campaigned effectively. Hillary didn't. She lost.

And yes...I know my language well. I do know that BOGUS = FALSE. And I don't need Google to tell me that. I use a dictionary.

bogus

: not genuine : counterfeit, sham

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bogus
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All of the mainstream media polls were bogus. And, yes, that includes Fox News. They manipulated the numbers used to get the results they wanted. They were not genuine. They were counterfeit. They were a sham.

They were bogus.
 
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Lafayette said:
And how are "the facts" getting in the way of blog-exchange, pray tell? Hillary won the popular vote, and lost in the Electoral College proving that "real democracy" is more than just faulty in America. It is unjust as well!

Get this: First past the post, winner-take-all voting is NOT a democratic way to elect anyone to public office. Never was, never will be! Period!

It is an unfair election device to obtain a clear and supposedly incontestable election result.

To each their own "narrative", mine included ...
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You said that the polls showed Hillary winning and that she won the popular vote. We have 227 years of the rules being the rules and I pointed out that in at least one battleground state, the polls showed Hillary winning and she lost. Some of those polls had Hillary ahead. That is the fact that you are ignoring because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Don't like the rules, then try to change them. I assure you that won't happen in the next 227 years either. Here is the US, we are a republic and it is hard to be judged to be undemocratic when we have 1 elected office in the whole country that isn't directly elected by the people. This is hardly different than the way heads of government are selected in most other countries. Our system has worked as designed for 58 straight elections and we have had an orderly transition or continuance every single time.
 
Mycroft said:
They were wrong. They were bogus.

I pointed that out numerous times before the election. I showed how they were wrong. I predicted Trump for the win. I was correct. Those who believed the polls were wrong...including Hillary. She campaigned based on her belief in those bogus polls and based on her own hubris...and she lost.

About our electoral system...the Electoral College...regardless your opinion of that process, it IS our process. It is established in our Constitution. Anyone campaigning for President MUST keep that process in mind. Campaigning to win an irrelevant popular vote is useless. The popular vote will not get a candidate elected. Trump campaigned effectively. Hillary didn't. She lost.

And yes...I know my language well. I do know that BOGUS = FALSE. And I don't need Google to tell me that. I use a dictionary.

All of the mainstream media polls were bogus. And, yes, that includes Fox News. They manipulated the numbers used to get the results they wanted. They were not genuine. They were counterfeit. They were a sham.

They were bogus.
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Blah, blah, blah. Bogus means "not genuine or true". The polls were genuine in the manner they were conducted, which was simply a reflection of voter sentiment that is typically highly variable.

The polls were conducted "normally", right up to the day before the election. They proved to be "wrong". End of story. Polls are often proven wrong, and it means nothing. Which is why they should be taken for what they are worth. Snapshots of elector motivation that is highly variable, as this election showed.

For your edification: Election polling

Excerpt:
Election polling

One of the most prominent applications of survey research is election polling. In election years, much of the polling by Pew Research Center focuses on people’s issue preferences, engagement in the election, opinions about the candidates, views of the campaign and voter preferences. Even in the so-called “off years,” many of our polls include questions about party identification, past voting behavior or voter reactions to events.

Although election polls attract a great deal of attention for their ability to predict the outcome of elections, their most important function is to help journalists and citizens understand the meaning of the campaign and the election. Polls help to explain, among other things, what issues are important, how candidate qualities may affect voters’ decisions, and how much support there is for particular policy changes.
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Thus polls are fallible and though predictive their accuracy is relative given a great many parameters that may be affecting consumer/elector choices before the actual voting date ...
 
Lafayette said:
Blah, blah, blah. Bogus means "not genuine or true". The polls were genuine in the manner they were conducted, which was simply a reflection of voter sentiment that is typically highly variable.

The polls were conducted "normally", right up to the day before the election. They proved to be "wrong". End of story. Polls are often proven wrong, and it means nothing. Which is why they should be taken for what they are worth. Snapshots of elector motivation that is highly variable, as this election showed.

For your edification: Election polling

Excerpt:

Thus polls are fallible and though predictive their accuracy is relative given a great many parameters that may be affecting consumer/elector choices before the actual voting date ...
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The mainstream media poll numbers and data were manipulated to get desired results. They were bogus. I've shown this many times throughout the campaign season. Sorry...you can trot out your arguments all you want, but they don't change the facts.

In any case, the election is over. Despite the polls, Trump won. It's a done deal. To get back on topic, though, it's ironic that the WaPo, one of those purveyors of bogus polls, is now using a bogus poll to talk about crazy things people believe.

As I've said...the craziest thing that people believe is mainstream media polls.
 
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