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#NeverTrump Is Dead, And Now We Have No Choice But To Vote For Him

longview said:
I am not sure that is completely accurate, in Hillery's case she was winning more delegates
even when she lost the primary election.
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Hillary would have an even bigger lead if there were no super delegates
 
jimbo said:
Because the other candidates were far worse. Democrats and Republicans both brought nothing to the table other than more of the same. Democrats did not have a Trump as a fall back position, so they're stuck with Hillary.

Both D's and R's gave Trump no chance. So far both have been 100% wrong. I don't bet against winners.
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I can name 10 Republican candidates who were far, far better than Trump. Trump brings nothing to the table except fear and ridiculous ideas that will never be implemented.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Don't agree with the juror thing.

But one thing I will say for your post, is I always find it ironic whenever any candidate is described as "narcissistic".

I mean, this person is running because they believe they can do the job, one of the toughest on Earth, narcissism has to factor in there somewhere.
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There's a difference between confidence, like Reagan and narcissism, like Obama.
 
Casper said:
I would be willing to bet my membership here, if Trump wins I will leave, never to return, would you be willing to bet that much? I will put it to you this way, either way this Nation is going to lose, you believe that Trump is the lesser of the two evils I see him as a complete unknown, the concern of political leaders here and around the world is good reason to be concerned ones self. Hillary for all her faults is at least a known quantity and her Husband would be there to get advice from, like or not he was a fairly good President. Yes, she is establishment and has here own skeletons but when compared to the Donald she would do far less damage to the Nation IMO.
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Please back down on that pledge now. It is a foolish pledge that diminishes you and everybody else if you lose your bet. It is absolutely a lose-lose proposition if you are wrong. Don't make bets when there is nothing for you to gain. (Mama Owl's counsel.)

I don't believe Hillary will even consult Bill on how to run the nation. And I believe that she, just as Obama has, will surround herself with people with questionable motives and who will give her very bad advice. And I think her SCOTUS appointments will lose the court to hyper liberalism/progressivism and anti-constitutionalism for the rest of our lifetimes if not forever.

And Clinton was headed for a failed presidency if Newt Gingrich and his GOP reformers had not shown up to save it. To Bill Clinton's credit, he was willing to go along with enough of those reforms that yes, he was not a bad president. The current GOP won't do that for Hillary or anybody else for that matter--they and the Democrats are too establishment and too gung ho to maintain the status quo which is defined as the system that benefits them the most.

I don't see Trump as the lesser of two evils. In my worst nightmare, I cannot believe he won't see better solutions to problems and better ways to achieve them than she will. Both of them will want to leave an admirable and appreciated legacy. And since he won't be beholden to the GOP as Hillary is bound to the Democratic Party, he has a better chance at pushing for real reforms and real accomplishments for good. I think he will surround himself with good people to educate him in what he doesn't know.

Both Hillary and Trump will want to leave a positive, favorable, appreciated legacy for themselves. But Trump is the one with the skill sets to do it. And even if he is terrible, I can't imagine that he will be as destructive as another eight years of the status quo will be.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Please back down on that pledge now. It is a foolish pledge that diminishes you and everybody else if you lose your bet. It is absolutely a lose-lose proposition if you are wrong. Don't make bets when there is nothing for you to gain. (Mama Owl's counsel.)

I don't believe Hillary will even consult Bill on how to run the nation. And I believe that she, just as Obama has, will surround herself with people with questionable motives and who will give her very bad advice. And I think her SCOTUS appointments will lose the court to hyper liberalism/progressivism and anti-constitutionalism for the rest of our lifetimes if not forever.

And Clinton was headed for a failed presidency if Newt Gingrich and his GOP reformers had not shown up to save it. To Bill Clinton's credit, he was willing to go along with enough of those reforms that yes, he was not a bad president. The current GOP won't do that for Hillary or anybody else for that matter--they and the Democrats are too establishment and too gung ho to maintain the status quo which is defined as the system that benefits them the most.

I don't see Trump as the lesser of two evils. In my worst nightmare, I cannot believe he won't see better solutions to problems and better ways to achieve them than she will. Both of them will want to leave an admirable and appreciated legacy. And since he won't be beholden to the GOP as Hillary is bound to the Democratic Party, he has a better chance at pushing for real reforms and real accomplishments for good. I think he will surround himself with good people to educate him in what he doesn't know.

Both Hillary and Trump will want to leave a positive, favorable, appreciated legacy for themselves. But Trump is the one with the skill sets to do it. And even if he is terrible, I can't imagine that he will be as destructive as another eight years of the status quo will be.
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Simply put, you are wrong on all counts in my opinion, oh well. Reality Check in November, until then enjoy the show.
 
Casper said:
Simply put, you are wrong on all counts in my opinion, oh well. Reality Check in November, until then enjoy the show.
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I don't mind you thinking I am wrong. Lots and lots of people think I'm wrong about a lot of things. And that's okay. (Though of course they're wrong. :) )

But again, please rescind that bet. Don't make a bet in which you have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I don't mind you thinking I am wrong. Lots and lots of people think I'm wrong about a lot of things. And that's okay. (Though of course they're wrong. :) )

But again, please rescind that bet. Don't make a bet in which you have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
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Fair enough.

You said do not bet the farm, I offered you something else, I see you do not want to accept. FYI, I would not lose anything, this is not the only site I belong to and not the first I would walk away from if I felt the need or gave my word on something. Not a bad site, better than most, but no, I would not lose any sleep over it if I lost, besides I would have far bigger concerns than a political discussion site, as would most Americans just some would take longer to grasp exactly what it was they have been sold.
 
I have to laugh when I am told I have no choice...no matter what the situation.

Marilyn Vos Savant 2016
 
Casper said:
Fair enough.

You said do not bet the farm, I offered you something else, I see you do not want to accept. FYI, I would not lose anything, this is not the only site I belong to and not the first I would walk away from if I felt the need or gave my word on something. Not a bad site, better than most, but no, I would not lose any sleep over it if I lost, besides I would have far bigger concerns than a political discussion site, as would most Americans just some would take longer to grasp exactly what it was they have been sold.
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I didn't bet anything and I was trying to persuade you not to pledge something you would surely regret, but okay. If you don't accept that in the spirit I intended it and it is that important to you, then make the pledge and keep it. I should have just kept my mouth shut. Or my fingers still. Or however you say it on a message board.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I didn't bet anything and I was trying to persuade you not to pledge something you would surely regret, but okay. If you don't accept that in the spirit I intended it and it is that important to you, then make the pledge and keep it. I should have just kept my mouth shut. Or my fingers still. Or however you say it on a message board.
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I offered the bet to you, you declined. So that is that.
You say "Have a Good Day".
 
Casper said:
Well you are right about one thing, Trump will be laying an egg in November. It would be fun to watch except that the result is Hillary Clinton as President of the United States of America. Oh well, you can lay the blame right where it belongs, at the feet of the Republicans that were dumb enough to fall for the sales pitch of a Democrat wearing Republican clothing. I never thought Conservatives were as dumb as some claimed, but as we can all see there is least a percentage of Cons that are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
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It really must be nice to be a Dem and never be considered responsible for anything.
 
Casper said:
Simply put, you are wrong on all counts in my opinion, oh well. Reality Check in November, until then enjoy the show.
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That would be fine on the face of it, but with the sniping from the butthurt crowd, those who were wrong and wrong again and now want to repair their miscalculations by doing their best to poison their own, just to make themselves right at any cost, it's difficult to put up with the constant whining coming from the cheap seats.

We get it, this crowd doesn't want Hillary, they don't want Trump, they don't want anyone who is running. But they sure do want to tell everyone who is involved how we should vote and express their general hate of us when we don't take their ****ty advice.
 
Casper said:
I would not know, never been a Dem or Repub.
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You said it yourself, only Repubs are to blame for anything and let's not forget how stupid you think "Cons" are. Yeah, you're really above all that partisanship.
 
clownboy said:
That would be fine on the face of it, but with the sniping from the butthurt crowd, those who were wrong and wrong again and now want to repair their miscalculations by doing their best to poison their own, just to make themselves right at any cost, it's difficult to put up with the constant whining coming from the cheap seats.

We get it, this crowd doesn't want Hillary, they don't want Trump, they don't want anyone who is running. But they sure do want to tell everyone who is involved how we should vote and express their general hate of us when we don't take their ****ty advice.
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I have no idea what on earth set of that rambling bit of stuff, hopefully you feel better now. Hate, I do not hate you or anyone else for that matter, I leave hate to those more practiced at it, Clownboy.
 
X Factor said:
You said it yourself, only Repubs are to blame for anything and let's not forget how stupid you think "Cons" are. Yeah, you're really above all that partisanship.
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BS. Plain and Simple. Care to show where I said anything of the sort on this or any other thread or site I post to, I will wait...............................
 
cpwill said:
Your argument comes down to depending on Congressional Republicans to stand so firm in defense of conservative principle that they will take on their own party's President?

Democrats hate the idea of Universal Health Care. Why, they're completely opposed to raising the minimum wage. Amnesty? They can't stand the notion. Democrats loathe Corporatism, Higher Taxes on upper income earners, and restricting the Second Amendment. They will be absolutely furious with the idea that we shouldn't reform entitlements, but should instead add to them, and raise taxes to pay for it - why, it goes against everything they stand for.

Meanwhile, Republicans are principled ideologues, with spines of steel.
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(Sigh) Eliminating your ad homs and snide sarcasm leaves us with the above.

Yes, the Democrats will oppose Trump if he is elected President. That's the standard expectation of any election.

But many Republican Congressman will also.

You seem to forget that all of those Congressmen, regardless of Party, are beholden to all sorts of Special Interests. Special Interests who pay for their elections and re-elections only so long as those Congressmen do everything they can to support the goals of those interests.

Obama found that out when he tried to get a much different version of the ACA proposed and passed...held up by his OWN Party which allowed Big Pharma, Medical Insurance, and the AMA to "work up" a proposal. Thus we have this mess of an ACA.

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, Hillary will have the full support of her Party if she is elected to office; which means she has a much better chance of doing what she wills than Trump would.

However, his election would seriously shake the foundations of both the GOP and the Democrats, alerting them to something they (like you) have shrugged off for so long...that there is an eve- growing discontent with the status quo and people expect real change.
 
What if...? said:
I was wondering Las night if this is THE opportunity for those currently disgusted to join forces and vote strongly enough for a single third party candidate that enough votes could be cast to force admission of a third party.

That wouldn't be a wasted vote.

And we'd still have our self respect!
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As long as the Electoral College is in effect and winning requires 51% of the total college votes there will never be a viable 3rd party. A Strong 3rd party candidate today would throw the choice of President into the House and they could pick anyone they wanted. It would be a disaster.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The choice is simply this:

Either vote for Trump or waste your vote and allow Hillary Clinton to become the next President of the United States.

That's what it all boils down to. :shrug:
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**** that. You're too pessimistic about things.

D and R are leading this country down together because of that kind of mindset.

Parties have died before many times. What makes D and R so special that votes anywhere else would be wasted?
 
Luftwaffe said:
**** that. You're too pessimistic about things.

D and R are leading this country down together because of that kind of mindset.

Parties have died before many times. What makes D and R so special that votes anywhere else would be wasted?
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I don't give a crap about Democratic or Republican Party organizations. I don't belong to either and I seldom vote for either.

I usually don't vote or vote for third party candidates I like, especially in local elections.

However, I do vote for Democratic or Republican Presidential candidates if I support one, or despise/have concerns about allowing one to become President.

In this case I prefer voting for Trump over Hillary for the second half of that reasoning. I don't think Trump can do any harm...Hillary worries me greatly.
 
No way am I voting for Trump. In fact, if I lived in a swing state, I'd seriously consider voting for Hillary (who I detest) on the basis of the lesser of two evils theory. Fortunately my state is solidly blue so I don't have to contemplate that nightmare scenario. I can go to the polls and vote Libertarian with a clean conscience.

What's really disappointing is the Republicans had a candidate in Cruz who I was actually looking forward to voting for if he had won. He's not a perfect candidate by any stretch, but he has foundational ideals and principles and really means it when he talks about fiscal conservatism and smaller government. And he's not afraid to stand up to the GOP leadership that uses those words as empty slogans.
 
iguanaman said:
As long as the Electoral College is in effect and winning requires 51% of the total college votes there will never be a viable 3rd party. A Strong 3rd party candidate today would throw the choice of President into the House and they could pick anyone they wanted. It would be a disaster.
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ANOTHER disaster.

And I thought parties weren't in the constitution. They're not forbidden, but not established there, either. I'm with Washington on parties. He got that prediction WAY better than Nostradamus ever did.
 
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