Democratic Debate Discussion Thread

[godwarrior]

Why shouldn't YOUR money be used in the most efficient manner?

Its not keeping score, its basic math.

Yes, I agree with the facts from the SSA we can't afford it currently. We can't give up on a good program because policy makers won't work together on budget cuts to sustain the program. It's not math that's the problem.. it's politics.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum

 

[iguanaman]

If its unsustainable, it doesn't matter what you want to pretend its about-it wont exist.

LOL That's a huge IF and your ilk has been saying that for 80 years. Give it up already. What is unsustainable is a USA without SS. Don't you know that you can't go backwards? Oh that's right you're a Con. the party of backwards thinking.

 

[Chomsky]

And now we know that Italian Vinny Barbarino likes very special comforting massages from male masseurs. (This has been confirmed by a gay male I know, who knows a gay masseur here, and counts "Vinny" among his "special" clients, when he's in town.) Who would've thought.

Whoa!

How about that?

Well, I still think he's pretty cool - but guess I've gotta' say, my cool has limits!

"And you can take dat to da bank"! <-- another Beretta-ism

 

[US Conservative]

If my money isn't being used efficiently, that is a failure of policy.

Dissolving the government is not an improvement in policy.

Abolishing services completely does not make them more efficient.

Where did I say the govt should be abolished?

And ditching inefficiency DOES make you more efficient.

I know its hard for you to admit that there are things that the govt just can't do very well.

 

[US Conservative]

Well, social security has lasted eighty years in this country. Much longer in Germany, since about the late 1880's. Ponzi's scheme lasted a couple years at most. As populations keep rising, more people will pay in. Social security has kept many people from poverty. Even Ayn Rand and Fredrich Hayek, the libertarians that hated these socialist programs until they themselves had to apply for medicare and social security. Guess they found out that their great free market, conservative ideas didn't account for old age.

None of this changes that fact that there are both fewer paying into SS, and more receiving benefits.

Its a ponzi scheme.

Learn to embrace the math, it does not have an agenda.

 

[US Conservative]

Yes, I agree with the facts from the SSA we can't afford it currently. We can't give up on a good program because policy makers won't work together on budget cuts to sustain the program. It's not math that's the problem.. it's politics.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum

If it was such a good program, it wouldn't need to be rescued. Its fundamentally flawed, when it requires more and more people paying in to stay afloat.

Why not go to something more efficient, and allow the elderly to be grandfathered out.

 

[US Conservative]

LOL That's a huge IF and your ilk has been saying that for 80 years. Give it up already. What is unsustainable is a USA without SS. Don't you know that you can't go backwards? Oh that's right you're a Con. the party of backwards thinking.

The govt says its unsustainable (not only politicians), not just math.

 

[jonny5]

Social Security covers more than just retirement. Are we just hoping charity will take care of the elderly, disabled, and survivors who didn't save or make enough to invest? I say it's our personal responsibility to care for these people using tax dollars.

https://www.socialsecurity.gov/news/press/factsheets/young.htm

I say its yourself, your family, your local community first, voluntarily. The difference is I wont force my opinion on you. Unlike how your opinion has been forced on me.

 

[tres borrachos]

That would be interesting. Rubio seems the most together and genuine of all the republican candidates.

I am keeping an open mind yet I suspect a Clinton/Sanders ticket would dance circles around any of the republicans.

The strange part is I detested GWB and like Jeb --- until he admitted he would line up the same administration and advisors as GWB. His advisors are failing him --- he should forcefully communicate he is not only his own man --- he will not be appointing any of the crew GWB did.He has to really fight that elephant in the room and he is not setting himself apart enough. His advisors should be fired.

Is there anyone here who thinks Trump stands a chance?

I don't see Hillary picking Sanders. They're both going to represent the northeast. They're both not young. I see Hillary picking a young Hispanic man as her running mate.

I also like Jeb but won't be voting for him in the NH primary.

Trump stands a chance at what? The GOP nomination or the general election? I think he stands a chance at both, unfortunately.

 

[godwarrior]

I say its yourself, your family, your local community first, voluntarily. The difference is I wont force my opinion on you. Unlike how your opinion has been forced on me.

If I work and contribute paying tax to my country for 50 years, then I expect my country to take care of me. I would like to have my family and community support me, but since their Libertarians they only support charity in ideals not in reality.

 

[Absentglare]

Where did I say the govt should be abolished?

And ditching inefficiency DOES make you more efficient.

I know its hard for you to admit that there are things that the govt just can't do very well.

Where did i say abolishing the government was your personal idea ?

Ah, see, i have this computer, but it's inefficient. You know what? I'll throw it out the window. That'll make it more efficient.

Lol wtf ?!?

 

[jonny5]

If I work and contribute paying tax to my country for 50 years, then I expect my country to take care of me. I would like to have my family and community support me, but since their Libertarians they only support charity in ideals not in reality.

Irrelevant. You asked about how we should take care of those who DONT save. Your solution is to force me to take care of them. My solution is to ASK you to take of them.

 

[US Conservative]

Where did i say abolishing the government was your personal idea ?

Ah, see, i have this computer, but it's inefficient. You know what? I'll throw it out the window. That'll make it more efficient.

Lol wtf ?!?

In your flawed analogy, there is no alternative to having an inefficient computer.

With SS, there are already superior alternatives. But people are forced to adhere to it anyway.

 

[Absentglare]

In your flawed analogy, there is no alternative to having an inefficient computer.

With SS, there are already superior alternatives. But people are forced to adhere to it anyway.

What?!??!

Yes there is !!!! It's called cleaning up your damn computer and it's what the politicians are supposed to do.

Instead of moronically throwing decades of political evolution out the window, actually find where and why inefficiencies occur and try to fix them.

But republicans would rather make the government even less efficient with crap like welfare piss tests and voter ID laws than actually fix what they whine about...

 

[US Conservative]

What?!??!

Yes there is !!!! It's called cleaning up your damn computer and it's what the politicians are supposed to do.

Instead of moronically throwing decades of political evolution out the window, actually find where and why inefficiencies occur and try to fix them.

But republicans would rather make the government even less efficient with crap like welfare piss tests and voter ID laws than actually fix what they whine about...

Why fix an old, broken computer when a newer, superior model laptop is available for less?

 

[iguanaman]

Why fix an old, broken computer when a newer, superior model laptop is available for less?

Be honest. You are one of the lucky ones that doesn't need SS and don't like paying for it. Too bad. SS does not exist for you.

 

[US Conservative]

Be honest. You are one of the lucky ones that doesn't need SS and don't like paying for it. Too bad. SS does not exist for you.

I never liked paying for it, from my first job. If SS does not exist for me, why does it need me to pay for it?

Besides, we both know it exists for govt. If you cared about people you would want a more efficient and effective solution.

 

[dnadna]

It's interesting to see how politicians in both political parties use rhetoric that isn't entirely accurate. Politicians believe that the general public won't always catch on to their misleading statements.

These videos showcased this in a humorous yet insightful way.

Watch a Compilation of Fallacies From the 10/13 Democratic Debate | LSAT Blog

I think you all would enjoy this!

 

[iguanaman]

I never liked paying for it, from my first job. If SS does not exist for me, why does it need me to pay for it?

Besides, we both know it exists for govt. If you cared about people you would want a more efficient and effective solution.

Because there are many that need it. Just because you don't is no reason to throw the others into poor houses. Not everyone can afford to put away money for their retirement. Govt. exists for the people, BTW

 

[Turin]

I don't see Hillary picking Sanders. They're both going to represent the northeast. They're both not young. I see Hillary picking a young Hispanic man as her running mate.

I also like Jeb but won't be voting for him in the NH primary.

Trump stands a chance at what? The GOP nomination or the general election? I think he stands a chance at both, unfortunately.

Scary to think Trump stands a chance --- most conservatives have said they do not really think so and it is more showboating and name recognition that is giving him a lead yet the Republican party would never stand for such. If I was choosing among the conservatives it would be Rubio and I like Paul on foreign policy yet not much else. Kasich is moderate yet has already been sinking. Carly made a good run yet really does not come off well and not much under her belt or broad based knowledge --- although intelligent she looks so angry as well.

If one were going to think of health Carly had breast cancer just a few years ago --- not that it should prevent her from running yet a chance of a met showing up is realistic so she needs to make a good choice on VP --- yet the only "healthy" one of the republican stage looked to be Rubio, Carson, Bush or Paul. All the Democratic contenders look healthy and at the top of their intellectual game. The Donald looks like he is set to stroke or have an MI.

I guess despite VP not having much to do --- it is one of the most important first decision making skills a contender for POTUS shows us as if they have health issues or anything can happen to anyone … and then the VP is our POTUS so their choice needs to be about more than votes. VP choice by McCain was such a failure it probably sank him immediately and he did not vet or think it through.

Normally, I agree with you on demographics for VP yet Sanders has universal appeal and will bring out voters including youth, latino, seniors, progressives and has a real appeal.

Also chronological age is a number. As an experienced provider i can tell you most likely --- Clinton or Sanders is in better health than Trump. Seventy is young for a female that has taken care of herself and is high IQ and used her mind. Clinton is the intellectual superior of most men in their 40's.

Yea --- like you I think without the negative influence of his brother/that admin Jeb could have been somebody.

 

[Turin]

Also regardless of VP --- Oregon, California and Washington are highly progressive with lots of tech companies and major health system hubs (those people vote blue) and progressive environmental issues and foreign policy issues. Those states are solid blue.

The large Latino demographic has thrown their support around Bernie --- they are not just matching ethnicity.

 

[Absentglare]

Why fix an old, broken computer when a newer, superior model laptop is available for less?

Be wary of the power hungry political party that tries to tell you the obvious lie that you can have more for free! What they really mean is the rich get a better deal and they don't give a **** about anyone else.

But you're really just sidestepping. If the government is inefficient in some way, solve the inefficiency. Don't throw away the government. That's just stupid!

 

[US Conservative]

Be wary of the power hungry political party that tries to tell you the obvious lie that you can have more for free! What they really mean is the rich get a better deal and they don't give a **** about anyone else.

But you're really just sidestepping. If the government is inefficient in some way, solve the inefficiency. Don't throw away the government. That's just stupid!

Thats nice, but the lefts promises of free actually mean less freedom and more taxes.

In other words, no.

 

[US Conservative]

Because there are many that need it. Just because you don't is no reason to throw the others into poor houses. Not everyone can afford to put away money for their retirement. Govt. exists for the people, BTW

There are alternatives that will leave the poor better off.

But nice appeal to emotion.

 

[FlyingHippos]

Also regardless of VP --- Oregon, California and Washington are highly progressive with lots of tech companies and major health system hubs (those people vote blue) and progressive environmental issues and foreign policy issues. Those states are solid blue.

The large Latino demographic has thrown their support around Bernie --- they are not just matching ethnicity.

That's why Hillary Clinton supporters should be careful where they tred, as their anti-Bernie rhetoric right now (especially on CNN and in newspapers), will have the effect they least expect, as in most progressives and independents could sour to Hillary Clinton in the Presidential Election, not vote at all and not show any enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton's campaign.

That would be a loss of 1-5% of votes, which is the margin by which Obama was re-elected, and is possibly enough of a vote loss to hand the election to the Republicans. She could win the nomination, but snub enough people that like Bernie Sanders to lose the election.