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Election 2012 - Voter Fraud or Rigged Machines?

3 million of those came from New York and New Jersey and could well be attributed to the SANDY storms and subsequent difficulties.
From what I have read it was across the board.
 
Rush Limbaugh analyzed that data thoroughly and predicted a landslide victory by Romney.

Republicans will win in a landslide says Rush and Morris - St. Petersburg Political Buzz | Examiner.com


Was it voter fraud that turned the election the other way?

Voter Fraud Charges Begin in Ohio


Or did Obama rig the voting machines?

Did Obama Rig the Voting Machines?

Obama didn't cheat. Voter issues are dealt with by local governments. Obama wouldn't have had access to the machines. Also, voter fraud to the level that would cause Obama to win the electoral and popular vote would be a massive under taking that I doubt anyone could pull off.
It's time to face reality. Obama won and that is that.
 
TSA’s problems is not something you really want to hitch your wagon to, is it? :D

It was offered as an example of determining a potential threat and implementing procedures (laws/rules) to prevent it. One does not have to wait for a disaster to foresee its possibility and attempt to prevent it. The "discriminatory burden" of requiring indivdual identification has not been proven either, it is simply alleged.
 
i agree!!!!! theres lots of proof that obama stole the election if people just use there brains instead of worshipping brack hussein obama what kind of a name is that any way???? did everyone forget about acorn and jeremiah wright and the black panthers??? this country needs to kcik obama out and reelect an american!!!!! and obama lies every single day about being a chrisitan and then he goes and makes abortion easier to get....jeeez this country is so screwed!!!!!!

quoth the raven, "overplayed."

130_eapoe.jpg
 
Not so fast there skippy, if you now have no way to verify who actually voted as J. Q. Public, how do you possibly prove fraud? The concept of presenting a valid, state issued, photo ID to buy alcohol/tobacco/guns/ammo or to cash a check is very widely accepted, one did not have to "prove" that fraud was widespread in order to implement these common sense protections; common sense alone dictates that without any system to positively relate actual voters to eligible voters, the idea of one man one vote is hard (if not impossible) to verify. I have yet to hear a huge cry to reverse these "discriminatory burdens" upon those that lack ID to enjoy buying alcohol/tobacco or cash their tax refund checks. If simply reciting any name/address combination of a registered voter is sufficient then one needs only that voter registraion list to vote as many times as they wish to; that is obvious to most folks.

Requiring an ID card to buy things is different than requiring an ID card to vote. It isn't easy for some people to get an ID card, and that shouldn't stop them from being able to vote. It took me months and two trips to the DMV plus getting my congressman involved for me to be able to get my photo ID. I am disabled, so my husband had to take off work each time I attempted to get my photo ID, which caused him to lose income. The states can supress the vote by simply making it next to impossible for the elderly, disabled, poor, and young to get a photo ID.
 
i agree!!!!! theres lots of proof that obama stole the election if people just use there brains instead of worshipping brack hussein obama what kind of a name is that any way???? did everyone forget about acorn and jeremiah wright and the black panthers??? this country needs to kcik obama out and reelect an american!!!!! and obama lies every single day about being a chrisitan and then he goes and makes abortion easier to get....jeeez this country is so screwed!!!!!!

What proof do you have that Obama stole the election?
 
Requiring an ID card to buy things is different than requiring an ID card to vote. It isn't easy for some people to get an ID card, and that shouldn't stop them from being able to vote. It took me months and two trips to the DMV plus getting my congressman involved for me to be able to get my photo ID. I am disabled, so my husband had to take off work each time I attempted to get my photo ID, which caused him to lose income. The states can supress the vote by simply making it next to impossible for the elderly, disabled, poor, and young to get a photo ID.

So, if others can buy things for you, then they should be able to vote for you too? It seems that you want to eqaute difficult (TWO trips! Oh, my!) with impossible. Initially getting your ID (months to secure the supporting documents?) was "difficult", but renewing that ID will be easy. I agree that starting anything new always creates "difficulties", yet once that is done it becomes normal and no big deal.
 
Wrong. Name one instance where a bottle of water or shampoo was used to hamper an airline flight.

Because we let them get away with doesn't mean the burden wasn't theirs.
 
So, if others can buy things for you, then they should be able to vote for you too? It seems that you want to eqaute difficult (TWO trips! Oh, my!) with impossible. Initially getting your ID (months to secure the supporting documents?) was "difficult", but renewing that ID will be easy. I agree that starting anything new always creates "difficulties", yet once that is done it becomes normal and no big deal.

You may not realize how hard it is for the elderly to get a birth certificate. Many of them were born at home and their births were recorded at their local church. Vital statistics wasn't a big deal back in the early and mid 1900s. As for my difficulty in getting a photo ID, my state made it difficult on purpose. I was told on my first trip that I needed to bring in divorce papers from a previous marriage along with my birth certificate, marriage license, and social security card. When I returned with those documents I was then told that I had to also have marriage license from my previous marriages. Now you tell me why my state needed all of that documentation. I contacted my congressman and was told there was no reason for the state to ask for these documents. He made some calls and I finally was able to get my photo ID without the previous marriage documentation. My information has been in the state data base for years, so there was no reason, other than voter suppression, for them to ask for so many documents about my personal life.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If simply reciting any name/address combination of a registered voter is sufficient then one needs only that voter registraion list to vote as many times as they wish to; that is obvious to most folks.
ttwtt78640 said:
...simply guessing that one is who they say that they are.
ttwtt78640 said:
So even you have "proven" that the current system of simply reciting a name/address combination of a registered voter is NOT going to hamper voter fraud.

You've mistaken the fact that since a photo ID is not required, that NO ID is required.

To register to vote, you have to prove that you are who you say you are. Therefore when I voted all the ID that I needed - and was asked for - was my voter registration card and my signature.

Incidentally, acceptable forms of voter ID are spelled out in the Help America Vote Act of 2002.


By the way, now that the Presidential election is over, let's see how interested the GOP is in ensuring that all eligible voters have a free photo ID available to them by the midterms.
 
It is true that you have to show they voted. There is a difference between registration fraud and voter fraud.

So how are you suppose to tell whether they voted or not? There is no way. Not without some type of system that identifies people. The simpleist way to do that is with an ID. The next part of that is to have it to where people that hand out the forms on election day cross reference the name with every other polling station to make sure that name, address etc, does not show up twice. (done via a state/local database, perferably state) And honestly I think that the registering to vote before an election should be mandatory. If you're not registered to vote then you don't get to vote. That way it gives people time to check to make sure those people are legally able to vote. Yeah, i'll admit that this is not ideal. But lets face it, people are not honest. They will lie to get what they want just as easily as they breathe.
 
So how are you suppose to tell whether they voted or not? There is no way. Not without some type of system that identifies people. The simpleist way to do that is with an ID. The next part of that is to have it to where people that hand out the forms on election day cross reference the name with every other polling station to make sure that name, address etc, does not show up twice. (done via a state/local database, perferably state) And honestly I think that the registering to vote before an election should be mandatory. If you're not registered to vote then you don't get to vote. That way it gives people time to check to make sure those people are legally able to vote. Yeah, i'll admit that this is not ideal. But lets face it, people are not honest. They will lie to get what they want just as easily as they breathe.

Voters check it. They do keep records. So, a cross check should not be that difficult. All states have a system, and all states keep stats that can be reviewed.
 
Voters check it. They do keep records. So, a cross check should not be that difficult. All states have a system, and all states keep stats that can be reviewed.

From what I've seen its all done by paper. Much easier to just hook up to the internet or even direct line and check it via a computer. Less mistakes are likely to be made also. When reading paper after paper after paper its not hard to miss a few lines when scanning a page for a name or address. Computers can cross reference far faster and more effeciently.
 
From what I've seen its all done by paper. Much easier to just hook up to the internet or even direct line and check it via a computer. Less mistakes are likely to be made also. When reading paper after paper after paper its not hard to miss a few lines when scanning a page for a name or address. Computers can cross reference far faster and more effeciently.

Opens up other problems, but the fact is there is a way to track and assure. And is checked after the election as well.
 
It was offered as an example of determining a potential threat and implementing procedures (laws/rules) to prevent it. One does not have to wait for a disaster to foresee its possibility and attempt to prevent it.
Again, risk analysis. Just because there is a “potential threat” doesn’t mean some given response to it is an improvement, or even actually mitigates the threat itself. That you brought up the TSA rules is ironic as they are under attack as well as ineffective, especially relative to costs. That they are a “look like you are doing something”, CYA move with either zero or negative net benefit.
The “discriminatory burden” of requiring indivdual identification has not been proven either, it is simply alleged.
Actually, the evidence of whether it is or not has been weighed and it was found to be so by a judge, thus there have indeed been proven to the satisfaction of the court of law. Not of ID in general but of the Texas law those yahoos here tried to implement.

There-in lies the problem. The State GOP could have crafted it in a manner to address the goals of improved security of the voting system without such an issue with the vote suppression side effects. That they didn’t suggests their either don’t care, aren’t particularly good administrators, or were cynically attempting to rig the system in their favor. After some of the things they tried to pull with the redistricting I think you can understand why suspicion of the third runs high. ;)
 
The issue with the integrity of the machines doing what they are supposed to do is different than what fraud may or may not have occurred. Something is off kilter with some of the machines that needs to be addressed going forward. Fraud will never be taken out of the system unless we have Canadians come in and run our elections for us.
 
The issue with the integrity of the machines doing what they are supposed to do is different than what fraud may or may not have occurred. Something is off kilter with some of the machines that needs to be addressed going forward.
Welcome to 2004! Diebold is among the most prevalent offenders of crap machines but hardly alone.
Fraud will never be taken out of the system unless we have Canadians come in and run our elections for us.
LOL, I am trying to picture Bubba’s reaction as he pulls up to the local polling station here to see a blue helmeted PPCLI standing watch outside. :)
 
Opens up other problems, but the fact is there is a way to track and assure. And is checked after the election as well.

No, it is not checked. There is no way with current techniques used by the officials to tell if a person that voted was legally allowed to vote or not.
 
No, it is not checked. There is no way with current techniques used by the officials to tell if a person that voted was legally allowed to vote or not.

Not what I'm told. But where there are records, there's a way to check. If there's a concern, just do the work.
 
Rush Limbaugh analyzed that data thoroughly and predicted a landslide victory by Romney.

Republicans will win in a landslide says Rush and Morris - St. Petersburg Political Buzz | Examiner.com

Was it voter fraud that turned the election the other way?

Voter Fraud Charges Begin in Ohio


Or did Obama rig the voting machines?

Did Obama Rig the Voting Machines?

Please keep your political porn to yourself. When you can produce an article from a real news site, bring it here and start a real discussion. Until then, you are but a purveyor of smut and nonsense.
 
Nonsense, while some voter fraud is happening (despite the left claiming that ballot fraud is either "rare" or non-existant), it can not possibly explain enough of the margin that Obama got to make it "the" cause of his victory. By zooming in on "strange" or "unprecedented" changes in some (but very, very few) district's voting trends makes it look "possible", but stand back for a minute and reverse/revise these "anomalies" back to the 2008 levels and Obama still wins, so my feeling is that, yes, voter/election official fraud still happens but fixing the system's problems (voter ID laws, better poll monitoring systems) is a better use of one's efforts than to try to reverse history (not possible) and rant about how "infair" political life has become.

explain this

NEVER BEFORE HAS THERE BEEN MORE VOTES FOR CONGRESSMEN
THAN FOR PRESIDENT IN ANY PREVIOUS ELECTION....EVER!!!!


Florida vote tally for congressional seats by party

(there were 2 uncontested districts, these vote totals will be added to the final tally)

republican 3,805,855

democrat 3,494,131

Florida votes for president in the same districts

Romney 3,502,413

Obama 3,532,998

Are we supposed to believe that 303,442 people voted for

republican congressmen and not Mitt Romney?

so lets say that these people did vote for Romney

(which i find very likely),the final tally is as follows

Romney 4,465,616

Obama 4,236,032

` ROMNEY WINS !!!!!!

This is more proof ...stolen election


I used the vote Tally Data from Politico.com

on November 11, 2012
 
Voter fraud is insignificant at best. Election fraud I think occurs quite frequently on both sides of the fence, but I think they pretty much negate eachother. Any election fraud perpetrated on behalf of Democrats would have been offset by voter suppression we know occurred on behalf of republicans in this election cycle.
 
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