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Tired of the Excuses

rcart76 said:
What and vote for Romney ???? He said himself that he doesn't give a damn about the 47%. You give me a good reason why I would vote republican?

As for the "letting our kids go down the crapper". Apparently you don't visit the inner city at all. There are multiple outreach programs gear towards inner city kids right now. Many of them my mom and brother participate in now. Oh and by the way, a lot of the job training programs that the inner city has for these kids were being threaten to be cancelled by your boys in Washington.
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I grew up, part of my childhood, in Baltimore. While you claim there are multiple programs, the results speak for themselves. The minority community does not sufficiently emphasize academic performance to their children, excluding most Asians. My wife recently quit a teaching position because of the hoodlum behavior in the classroom. If you look at the unemployment ratings by ethnicity, the ordering is precisely the same as the GPA by ethnicity. I anticipate the excuse of blaming the quality of the schools. In order to counter that in advance, I'll argue that Asians don't go to better schools than whites, yet they have the highest GPA. Therefore, from the perspective of an educator, I think minorities need to re-evaluate their efforts. Namely, ask why Detroit kids care more about bathroom brawls than education for their future
 
Paschendale said:
X, many props. Hopefully that spirit can lead us all to actually get some compromise done in the next four years. There certainly wasn't enough in the previous four.

To everyone who engaged in this "why do blacks vote Democrat" bit, congratulations, that's why you come off racist. Because you characterize a whole big group of people as a homogeneous mass. You don't see people, you just see "the other". That's racism. Don't do it. If you even entertain the idea that "blacks" vote as a group, or do so because of a single idea, then you are engaging in racism. You are degrading people to a state that is less than human.
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That's not racism. It's merely the applied statistics. My goal is to analyze statistics to determine the cause of issues such as poverty. It's a reasonable hypothesis that wanting handouts is a cause of the lack of progress for minorities getting out of poverty. A simple analogy is how a kid will take longer learning to wipe their own butt if you keep doing it for them. You have to teach how to accomplish something, but make them do it themselves. I'll argue all day that the minorities in areas such as Detroit are perfectly capable of achieving your average graduation rate. The obvious issue is lack of effort on their part.
 
FluffyNinja said:
I'm certainly not. I was giving you a possible reason as to why some people feel that way regarding entitlements. :shrug:

How is this any different from you labeling all Republicans as "racists"?
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The girl in your video said nothing about entitlements or receiving entitlements. I thought it was rather clear that she was happy that our economic security was in place. You just jumped to far flung assumptions she was saying Obama was going to pay her mortgage. She said nothing even remotely close to that.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Maybe you are correct, but what I read was:
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Of course I don't think that all republicans are racist. A lot of my friends are white republicans. What I was trying to imply (and I maybe did a bad job of it) is blacks and hispanics as a whole pay attention to media. And when you have pundits like Rush, Glen Beck, Ann Coultier and republican officials on record saying negative things about your race, it will build up in your mind and you will have general view of that party. But you know what made it even worse in our view as a whole? No one from the right had the balls to stand up and say that this type of talk does not represent the core beliefs of our party. Instead most people double down on it because this type of hard talk was popular to the far right wing of your party.

Look I know that racism exists on both sides, but it is less tolerated on the democratic side then it is on the republican side. If a democrat says something remotely racist, their political career would be in jepardy. I can't say the same on the republican side. Can you?
 
MaggieD said:
Respectfully, Rcart, I'm not going to go back and look at Romney's platform, since it's moot. But the Republican difference, as always, is that the individual states should be given Federal $$ to solve their own unique problems rather than the solutions coming down from massive Federal programs that leave money at the top instead of in the hands of individual states -- where it can more easily create jobs, set standards, and tailor programs to specific need.

If you knew me here on DP, RCart, you'd know that I'm not racist. I am disappointed in myself that I gave you that impression.
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Except this election Obama opted to put the the welfare to work back to the states' initiative and the GOP trashed him for it.
 
poweRob said:
Except this election Obama opted to put the the welfare to work back to the states' initiative and the GOP trashed him for it.
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He bent the rules to suit his paradygm.
 
MaggieD said:
He bent the rules to suit his paradygm.
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He told the states they could implement their own welfare to work criterea as long as it was stronger but didn't weaken the welfare to work program at the federal level. He put it on the states... at the behest of Republican requests to do so.... then the GOP lied and trashed him for doing it.
 
MaggieD said:
Okey-Dokey.
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The original poster and others have told you so. That Obamaphone bull**** almost made me vote for Obama. Not too mention many of the idiots in the right wing media have spread this false narrative that minority borrowers were the real reason for the crisis when it is clear that it was widespread malfeasance on the part of lenders. I know white conservatives who defaulted and buy into that narrative. The racist propaganda is costing you votes and turning to it now to make excuses for your parties failure is nothing but pathetic whining.

Mitch Danies called this before the primaries started. Nobody listened to him and the GOP blew an easy win.
 
Mathematician said:
I grew up, part of my childhood, in Baltimore. While you claim there are multiple programs, the results speak for themselves. The minority community does not sufficiently emphasize academic performance to their children, excluding most Asians. My wife recently quit a teaching position because of the hoodlum behavior in the classroom. If you look at the unemployment ratings by ethnicity, the ordering is precisely the same as the GPA by ethnicity. I anticipate the excuse of blaming the quality of the schools. In order to counter that in advance, I'll argue that Asians don't go to better schools than whites, yet they have the highest GPA. Therefore, from the perspective of an educator, I think minorities need to re-evaluate their efforts. Namely, ask why Detroit kids care more about bathroom brawls than education for their future
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Again, I do not deny that we do have problems in our schools and communities. We all recognize that. I grew up in Compton, CA and you do you know who was very popular to minorities in our community? A white democrat name Kenneth Hahn. He saw the problems and he work tirelessly with community organizer. Minorities do not see republicans in their community trying to work with community leaders like they see democrats, but we do see republicans on TV sitting on their high chair talking down on us. That wouldn't play well with any race.

If republicans really want the minority vote, they have to come and talk to the community and express their ideas on how to fix the failed school system. They can do what Kenneth Hahn did. Partner with community organizers to get stuff done.

Look at Jeb Bush for example. Did you see what he did at the RNC convention? He express concern about the school system in florida. He work with local communities on the problems. Look at Chris Christie, he is always working with Corey Booker in New Jersey in the inner city. And guess what? These two white republicans have very high approval ratings with minorities.
 
rcart76 said:
Again, I do not deny that we do have problems in our schools and communities. We all recognize that. I grew up in Compton, CA and you do you know who was very popular to minorities in our community? A white democrat name Kenneth Hahn. He saw the problems and he work tirelessly with community organizer. Minorities do not see republicans in their community trying to work with community leaders like they see democrats, but we do see republicans on TV sitting on their high chair talking down on us. That wouldn't play well with any race.

If republicans really want the minority vote, they have to come and talk to the community and express their ideas on how to fix the failed school system. They can do what Kenneth Hahn did. Partner with community organizers to get stuff done.

Look at Jeb Bush for example. Did you see what he did at the RNC convention? He express concern about the school system in florida. He work with local communities on the problems. Look at Chris Christie, he is always working with Corey Booker in New Jersey in the inner city. And guess what? These two white republicans have very high approval ratings with minorities.
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This is a great post, RCart.
 
MaggieD said:
This is a great post, RCart.
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Thanks Maggie

Again if more republicans do what Bush and Christie are doing then the democrats will be in deep trouble. Think about it, blacks are very conservative in faith so you already have us there on the social level. You guys just have to change to tone of your rhetoric. Do you honestly believe that blacks and hispanics are happy with the job the democrats are doing in the communities? I would challenge any republican to go meet with the communities. Tell them that the democrats have failed them. And then lay out your plan on how to right the ship.

The Nation Of Islam do not bite their tongue when they talk to black men. They will give us the hard truth. But you know what, they will also present their plan on how to improve our lives and they work hard with black men. Not trying to compare the GOP to The Nation, but I was just trying to say that there is a great opportunity for you guys and you need to take advantage of it.
 
rcart76 said:
Thanks Maggie

Again if more republicans do what Bush and Christie are doing then the democrats will be in deep trouble. Think about it, blacks are very conservative in faith so you already have us there on the social level. You guys just have to change to tone of your rhetoric. Do you honestly believe that blacks and hispanics are happy with the job the democrats are doing in the communities? I would challenge any republican to go meet with the communities. Tell them that the democrats have failed them. And then lay out your plan on how to right the ship.

The Nation Of Islam do not bite their tongue when they talk to black men. They will give us the hard truth. But you know what, they will also present their plan on how to improve our lives and they work hard with black men. Not trying to compare the GOP to The Nation, but I was just trying to say that there is a great opportunity for you guys and you need to take advantage of it.
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Your mission should you choose to accept it: (Ha!!!!!)

I hope you will put your thoughts together and send it as a Letter to the Editor to major newspapers throughout the country. (You've just about got it written here.) Your voice needs to be heard. Really.

Edit: You've made me realize that, though the Democrats hold the City of Chicago in a never-ending vice grip*, Republicans can do outreach and come up with ideas to help them even so. I've really learned something in our exchange.

*A vice grip that, in my opinion, is a model for the failure in our inner cities...
 
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X Factor said:
I haven't posted much in this forum. I admit to being disappointed in the results of the election, but some of the right wing excuses I'm hearing/seeing are making me cringe and making an already tough to swallow pill twice as big. It's Chris Christie's fault. It's Sandy's fault. It's the media's fault. Obama played the race card. Minorities stole the election by actually being involved and voting (that one was just embarrassing :3oops:). I could go on ad nauseaum.

My fellow, conservatives, aren't we the party of personal responsibility? Instead of looking for others, that we have zero control over, to blame, maybe we need to look inward. Are we not successfully conveying what we believe? Are we failing at actually exemplifying what we believe? Are there compromises we can (and should) make that don't violate our core principles? I don't know the answers to these questions, and there are far more question than just these, but I think the answers are worth persuing. Actually, I think it vital we do. I don't even know what the final election numbers are but we cannot claim that every one of the tens of millions of people who voted for Obama are stupid or out to destroy the country or whatever. On the contrary, I'd hazard to say that the massive majority of both "sides" share a lot of common ground. We have a choice, we can decide we're victims of circumstances we can't control, or we can decide to actully practice what we preach.
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Now thats the proper attitude and it needs to be saluted as the true spirit of America. Suck it up, do what you can and try and move forward.

My hats off.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm not as with you on their last sentence. There's some of that on all sides. But most think they voted what's best for the county.

The rest is fine.
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In the end EVERYONE votes their best interest. do say otherwise is fooling yourself. the important thing is to help work out this mess and get us back to a constructive dialogue if possible.

Go Boo
 
The Giant Noodle said:
:bravo:
I say lets compromise. If not we (United States) is screwed. Im VERRRRRY happy to see what you said! Mature and correct in this cloud of confusion and despair. Lets get things DONE! :2wave:
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God save the United States of America and ALL OF ITS PEOPLE.

Message recieved and understood.
 
rcart76 said:
I'm sorry but as a black man I am really getting sick and tired of all the racist comments coming from republicans after this election. Put yourself in our shoes. Where I am from there are a lot of good hard working brothers and sisters trying to get by every day. My father worked 2 jobs just to make sure me and brother had a hot meal every night. I had to work my way through college because I didn't have a rich mommy and daddy to pay for my tuition. I am just as american as you and it is insulting to my father when I hear conservatives say all black want is a handout.

Maybe we just vote democrat because we think that republicans are racist a*******...
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Which conservatives?

What has the Republican Party done that is racist? Maybe you think it because you listen to loud mouths.
 
FluffyNinja said:
I'm saying that you ARE defending a bigoted statement made by rcart76. That is EXACTLY what I am saying. :shrug:
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Can we please stop both of you. grow up. Its over lets move on ok? What the point your trying to prove anyhow? that my mouth is bigger than yours. OK you've both done it. move on
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Great post, X. The problem I see is not only with conservatives... though I think it's more apparent, currently, because of the Obama win; if roles were reversed we would see the problem with liberals, more. The issue is what I have been saying at DP for years. The extremists of each party. The moderates MUST shut them down and shout them down. It is not enough for me, as a liberal, to call extreme conservatives out on their stupidity; nor is it enough for you, as a conservative, to call extreme liberals out on their stupidity. We must manage our own. Further, the problem with most of these people is that they do not care ONE IOTA about this country. All they care about is beating the other guy. When I hear anyone say, "I hope the President fails"... regardless of whether the President is Obama or Bush, I know that person doesn't care about the US. They are a hack and only care about beating the other guys. People like that need to be shouted down by the sane member of their own political affiliation. If anything comes from all this, I would hope that the more sane liberals and conservatives can agree to do this.
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Yeah brother Yeah
 
Aberration said:
Which conservatives?

What has the Republican Party done that is racist? Maybe you think it because you listen to loud mouths.
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The loud mouths will always be there. It is up to the individual to call out that type of ignorance because you don't want them speaking for you. If I don't want you speaking for me, then I have no problem calling you out. I have done it time after time on other sites where I do not agree with a black poster opinion on a issue.
 
Paschendale said:
X, many props. Hopefully that spirit can lead us all to actually get some compromise done in the next four years. There certainly wasn't enough in the previous four.

To everyone who engaged in this "why do blacks vote Democrat" bit, congratulations, that's why you come off racist. Because you characterize a whole big group of people as a homogeneous mass. You don't see people, you just see "the other". That's racism. Don't do it. If you even entertain the idea that "blacks" vote as a group, or do so because of a single idea, then you are engaging in racism. You are degrading people to a state that is less than human.
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I agree with you, Pasch but that has to include everyone regardless of party that "characterize(s) a whole big group of people as a homogeneous mass." In the same way it would be very wrong to say that minorities vote Democratic to get government hand outs (or for any one particular reason), it's also wrong to bash conservative minorities as being some sort of sell outs or traitors.
 
FluffyNinja said:
I'm certainly not. I was giving you a possible reason as to why some people feel that way regarding entitlements. :shrug:

How is this any different from you labeling all Republicans as "racists"?
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And Fluffy, I think he was just trying to illustrate why some minorities might think the GOP is racist. I don't think he meant that he thinks all Republicans are. Believe me, I understand the sensitivity to being accused of being racist but I think his comment is exaclty the kind of thing we need to listen to if we want to correct the misperceptions. We have to know where the problem is before we can hope to fix it.
 
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MaggieD said:
I completely agree with you.

I've been a good sport. I'm not happy, but that's the will of the people. I'm disgusted. I'm disillusioned. But I won't be blaming anything other than the American people have come to the realization that they can vote themselves the treasury.

Our country votes on "what's in it for me" now. It's sad, but true. Public sector unions vote Democratic because Democrats have voted them "the treasury" in their salaries, pensions and other benefits. Blacks vote Democratic because they see Democrats giving them free Obama Phones and paying their mortgages. Never mind that their kids are left in the dust by Democratic policies. That doesn't matter. "It's all about me." Many of the 47% who pay no Federal income tax vote Democratic because "Everybody who makes more than me should pay more taxes!"

I blame the American people. Most of them aren't looking at "What's good for our country." Most of them are looking at "What's in it for me?"
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as if promising voters lower taxes for votes isnt all about "ME! ME!"
 
X Factor said:
I haven't posted much in this forum. I admit to being disappointed in the results of the election, but some of the right wing excuses I'm hearing/seeing are making me cringe and making an already tough to swallow pill twice as big. It's Chris Christie's fault. It's Sandy's fault. It's the media's fault. Obama played the race card. Minorities stole the election by actually being involved and voting (that one was just embarrassing :3oops:). I could go on ad nauseaum.

My fellow, conservatives, aren't we the party of personal responsibility? Instead of looking for others, that we have zero control over, to blame, maybe we need to look inward. Are we not successfully conveying what we believe? Are we failing at actually exemplifying what we believe? Are there compromises we can (and should) make that don't violate our core principles? I don't know the answers to these questions, and there are far more question than just these, but I think the answers are worth persuing. Actually, I think it vital we do. I don't even know what the final election numbers are but we cannot claim that every one of the tens of millions of people who voted for Obama are stupid or out to destroy the country or whatever. On the contrary, I'd hazard to say that the massive majority of both "sides" share a lot of common ground. We have a choice, we can decide we're victims of circumstances we can't control, or we can decide to actully practice what we preach.
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I come from a Republican family. My granddaddy ran for state senate in SC as a Republican twice. You have reminded me there are still Republicans out there that have their wits about them. The way it is now is why I switched parties in 2005. They are just to much on several levels.

When there are people here for example that say I should lose my job so I can go on the welfare I crave how do you respond to that? There is no response.

How do I respond to a member that believes my opinion doesn't matter because he pays more taxes than me and that I owe him something? There is no response.

What about being called a Marxist, communist etc because they have no understanding of the terms and believe name calling is better? I'm an American and I love my country. You could definately label me a jingoist but there still is no response.

Reach out to them Obiwan you're our only hope.
 
X Factor said:
I agree with you, Pasch but that has to include everyone regardless of party that "characterize(s) a whole big group of people as a homogeneous mass." In the same way it would be very wrong to say that minorities vote Democratic to get government hand outs (or for any one particular reason), it's also wrong to bash conservative minorities as being some sort of sell outs or traitors.
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I agree. A black voter who is deeply concerned with religion and votes more based on that than other issues is not a traitor or anything like that. That person simply has a specific set of priorities. And we are free to disagree, loudly, about those priorities. But every person is entitled to make that decision for themselves. Just as every person is entitled to criticize that decision, in the hopes that continued criticism will distill the best choices out of public discourse.
 
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