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A Question for the Bluers

Ray410 said:
Man, what a liberal elitist nonsense thread. What makes you think Conservatives want anything to do with you Godless loons? In a country of over 300 million people, Obama won by only 3 million votes and you feel so superior and entitled that you start such a silly, condescending thread.

The loons won by importing 80 million poverty stricken, uneducated, permanent dependency class Mexicans to vote for Obama so the government can steal for them and you think you have some sort of power or mandate? Are you silly enough to actually believe that intelligent, reasonable people in the United States leisurely considered the candidates and then cast their vote for the one that would be best for the United States?

What happens when all the foreigners you imported to vote for Obama discover there will NEVER be enough menial jobs for them and their huge families? What happens when the blacks start fighting back against the Mexicans that are driving them out of their homes and neighborhoods, often by hunting them down and killing them?

Rather than discuss nonsense, consider the fact that the ball is entirely in your court now. The election is over, but everything is the same. Now what? American loons are now under scrutiny from the entire world. Do something.
Click to expand...

Are you really that butt hurt?:lamo
 
spanky said:
This question is directed at democrats, middle of the road left leaners, liberals and left wing nut jobs :)lol:);

If the GOP were to combine it's basic principles of small gubmint, low taxes, fiscal sanity and a strong defense along with traditional dem issues like abortion, gay rights and realistic immigration policies, would you consider voting for a GOP candidate in the future?
Click to expand...

What we have to understand is that taxes are already low. Screaming for even lower taxes, as some are doing, is just being insane.

Here is my problem. You can not argue, as some are doing, that all tax increases are bad, that all tax cuts are good, that cutting government is good in all scenarios etc.

What we need isn't a tiny government, but a smart government. We need for our officials to root out when money is wasted and set examples of people. If you give out government contracts to your brother in law though he was the highest bidder, you should be in jail and not allowed to ever run for public office again. If money is set aside for one thing and spent on another, those responsible should be pointed out and if it's grievous, voted out. We should rules in place stating that any and all spending increases, except in case of war, natural disaster, or dire economic stimulus, should be offset by matching spending cuts equal in nature, meaning that if you want to spend a billion extra this year, you have to cut a billion dollars in the budget, from this year, not a billion from next year, or 1/10 of a billion over the next ten years. That method does not work. If you want to spend an extra billion over ten years, then we have to cut a billion over the next ten years. Just common sense.

It is much easier for the government to set in place regulations than it is for them to get rid of silly ones, because no one looks at the regulations already in place, they are looking for where we need new ones. I think we should have a congressional group or a new government department, or a new department in each existing government department that makes regulations, that does nothing but take complaints from business owners and people in whatever industry we are discussing, and looks at what regulations are over reaching, what regulations are not needed, what regulations had an impact that was not intended etc. It could even be a system to where you file a complaint, state your name and the way this regulation is affecting you, and once a year we go through them and decide if any of the complaints have merit. of course we'll ignore the people that complain that they can't argue that they should be able to pollute as much as they want, but there will be some regulations, such as the one the president talks about where milk was classified as a hazardous substance, and we can fix those regulations. The argument that we have to slash regulations or that we need a ton of new regulations is wrong. We need to make smart regulations, weight the pro's and cons, and make smart choices.

If a Republican came out with these issues, and wasn't the most socially conservative person on earth, I'd vote for them.
 
spanky said:
This question is directed at democrats, middle of the road left leaners, liberals and left wing nut jobs :)lol:);

If the GOP were to combine it's basic principles of small gubmint, low taxes, fiscal sanity and a strong defense along with traditional dem issues like abortion, gay rights and realistic immigration policies, would you consider voting for a GOP candidate in the future?
Click to expand...

Fat chance.
 
roflpublican said:
we tried, that was said during the argument for the iraq war, but then the oil companies sold all iraqs oil to china. :confused:
Click to expand...

Well, you actually have to sell it someone before you can realize a profit.
 
roughdraft274 said:
What we have to understand is that taxes are already low. Screaming for even lower taxes, as some are doing, is just being insane.

Here is my problem. You can not argue, as some are doing, that all tax increases are bad, that all tax cuts are good, that cutting government is good in all scenarios etc.

What we need isn't a tiny government, but a smart government. We need for our officials to root out when money is wasted and set examples of people. If you give out government contracts to your brother in law though he was the highest bidder, you should be in jail and not allowed to ever run for public office again. If money is set aside for one thing and spent on another, those responsible should be pointed out and if it's grievous, voted out. We should rules in place stating that any and all spending increases, except in case of war, natural disaster, or dire economic stimulus, should be offset by matching spending cuts equal in nature, meaning that if you want to spend a billion extra this year, you have to cut a billion dollars in the budget, from this year, not a billion from next year, or 1/10 of a billion over the next ten years. That method does not work. If you want to spend an extra billion over ten years, then we have to cut a billion over the next ten years. Just common sense.

It is much easier for the government to set in place regulations than it is for them to get rid of silly ones, because no one looks at the regulations already in place, they are looking for where we need new ones. I think we should have a congressional group or a new government department, or a new department in each existing government department that makes regulations, that does nothing but take complaints from business owners and people in whatever industry we are discussing, and looks at what regulations are over reaching, what regulations are not needed, what regulations had an impact that was not intended etc. It could even be a system to where you file a complaint, state your name and the way this regulation is affecting you, and once a year we go through them and decide if any of the complaints have merit. of course we'll ignore the people that complain that they can't argue that they should be able to pollute as much as they want, but there will be some regulations, such as the one the president talks about where milk was classified as a hazardous substance, and we can fix those regulations. The argument that we have to slash regulations or that we need a ton of new regulations is wrong. We need to make smart regulations, weight the pro's and cons, and make smart choices.

If a Republican came out with these issues, and wasn't the most socially conservative person on earth, I'd vote for them.
Click to expand...

What makes you think that?
 
Ray410 said:
Man, what a liberal elitist nonsense thread. What makes you think Conservatives want anything to do with you Godless loons? In a country of over 300 million people, Obama won by only 3 million votes and you feel so superior and entitled that you start such a silly, condescending thread.

The loons won by importing 80 million poverty stricken, uneducated, permanent dependency class Mexicans to vote for Obama so the government can steal for them and you think you have some sort of power or mandate? Are you silly enough to actually believe that intelligent, reasonable people in the United States leisurely considered the candidates and then cast their vote for the one that would be best for the United States?

What happens when all the foreigners you imported to vote for Obama discover there will NEVER be enough menial jobs for them and their huge families? What happens when the blacks start fighting back against the Mexicans that are driving them out of their homes and neighborhoods, often by hunting them down and killing them?

Rather than discuss nonsense, consider the fact that the ball is entirely in your court now. The election is over, but everything is the same. Now what? American loons are now under scrutiny from the entire world. Do something.
Click to expand...

What makes you think I'm an elitist liberal?
 
spanky said:
What makes you think that?
Click to expand...

They're at their lowest point in decades. Payroll tax breaks, the Bush tax cuts etc... What makes you think they aren't?
 
spanky said:
This question is directed at democrats, middle of the road left leaners, liberals and left wing nut jobs :)lol:);

If the GOP were to combine it's basic principles of small gubmint, low taxes, fiscal sanity and a strong defense along with traditional dem issues like abortion, gay rights and realistic immigration policies, would you consider voting for a GOP candidate in the future?
Click to expand...

Small government means corporate control. Low taxes mean misallocation of capital and recession as the rich "invest" in bubbles. Fiscal sanity means cutting investment in productivity.

So the answer is no. Conservatives' creepy social policies are nothing compared to the lunacy of their failed economic policies.
 
KopeAcetic said:
They're at their lowest point in decades. Payroll tax breaks, the Bush tax cuts etc... What makes you think they aren't?
Click to expand...

They're at their lowest point in decades due to the crappy economy. No jobs, no payroll taxes. Real estate tanks, lower property taxes. No money, can't pay sales taxes.
 
spanky said:
This question is directed at democrats, middle of the road left leaners, liberals and left wing nut jobs :)lol:);

If the GOP were to combine it's basic principles of small gubmint, low taxes, fiscal sanity and a strong defense along with traditional dem issues like abortion, gay rights and realistic immigration policies, would you consider voting for a GOP candidate in the future?
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

But that's more or less where the Democratic party is sitting.
 
spanky said:
They're at their lowest point in decades due to the crappy economy. No jobs, no payroll taxes. Real estate tanks, lower property taxes. No money, can't pay sales taxes.
Click to expand...

You might be confusing tax rates with tax income.
 
spanky said:
They're at their lowest point in decades due to the crappy economy. No jobs, no payroll taxes. Real estate tanks, lower property taxes. No money, can't pay sales taxes.
Click to expand...

So first you deny they're low then you say they're low because of the recession.

Yes, tax income is low because people are out of work and we definitley need to get that back up, but the rates themselves are very low.
 
head of joaquin said:
Small government means corporate control.
Click to expand...

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Low taxes mean misallocation of capital and recession as the rich "invest" in bubbles.
Click to expand...

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Fiscal sanity means cutting investment in productivity.
Click to expand...

What productivity? The growth of gubmint and food stamps?

You're just making stuff up as you go along.
 
KopeAcetic said:
So first you deny they're low then you say they're low because of the recession.

Yes, tax income is low because people are out of work and we definitley need to get that back up, but the rates themselves are very low.
Click to expand...

I never denied they were low. But we could have a debate on what the definition is of "low".
 
Ray410 said:
Man, what a liberal elitist nonsense thread. What makes you think Conservatives bible thumpers want anything to do with you Godless loons? In a country of over 300 million people, Obama won by only 3 million votes and you feel so superior and entitled that you start such a silly, condescending thread.

The loons won by importing 80 million poverty stricken, uneducated, permanent dependency class Mexicans to vote for Obama so the government can steal for them and you think you have some sort of power or mandate? Are you silly enough to actually believe that intelligent, reasonable people in the United States leisurely considered the candidates and then cast their vote for the one that would be best for the United States?

What happens when all the foreigners you imported to vote for Obama discover there will NEVER be enough menial jobs for them and their huge families? What happens when the blacks start fighting back against the Mexicans that are driving them out of their homes and neighborhoods, often by hunting them down and killing them?

Rather than discuss nonsense, consider the fact that the ball is entirely in your court now. The election is over, but everything is the same. Now what? American loons are now under scrutiny from the entire world. Do something.
Click to expand...

Fixed it. Now it makes sense.
 
spanky said:
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Click to expand...

I guess you missed the rise of corpoate capitalism.


Assumes facts not in evidence.
Click to expand...

I guess you missed 60 years of economists' analysis of the Great Depression and every subsequent recession.

What productivity? The growth of gubmint and food stamps?
Click to expand...
I guess you don't understand how infrastruction (not to mention people who aren't starving) increased productivity. But then you're a conservative and into crank economic theory. How's that Bush tax cut thingie working for ya.

You're just making stuff up as you go along.
Click to expand...
Yeah, me and economists who study the sources of productivity.
 
head of joaquin said:
I guess you missed the rise of corpoate capitalism.




I guess you missed 60 years of economists' analysis of the Great Depression and every subsequent recession.

I guess you don't understand how infrastruction (not to mention people who aren't starving) increased productivity. But then you're a conservative and into crank economic theory. How's that Bush tax cut thingie working for ya.

Yeah, me and economists who study the sources of productivity.
Click to expand...

What I'm thinking is your economists are not the same as my economists.
 
spanky said:
What I'm thinking is your economists are not the same as my economists.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the ones I refer to actually have Ph.Ds. and don't think the gold standard is the next big thing.

But your OP's attempt to link conservative with sound economic policy is rebutted. Conservatived crank economic policies are vast failures. Remember that Bush meltdown thingie?
 
Total taxation as % of GDP statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation


Total taxation as % of GDP (most recent) by country

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 Sweden: 54.2 % of GDP
# 2 Denmark: 48.8 % of GDP
# 3 Finland: 46.9 % of GDP
# 4 Belgium: 45.6 % of GDP
# 5 France: 45.3 % of GDP
# 6 Austria: 43.7 % of GDP
# 7 Italy: 42 % of GDP
# 8 Netherlands: 41.4 % of GDP
# 9 Norway: 40.3 % of GDP
# 10 Germany: 37.9 % of GDP
# 11 United Kingdom: 37.4 % of GDP
# 12 Canada: 35.8 % of GDP
# 13 Switzerland: 35.7 % of GDP
# 14 New Zealand: 35.1 % of GDP
# 15 Australia: 31.5 % of GDP
# 16 Ireland: 31.1 % of GDP
# 17 United States: 29.6 % of GDP
# 18 Japan: 27.1 % of GDP
Weighted average: 39.4 % of GDP
Click to expand...

I'm thinking those who claim US taxes are too low are comparing them to these wonderful economies around the world.

Funny, all that increased revenue didn't do squat for protecting their nations wealth. Most are worse off then we are.

Where's Greece?
 
spanky said:
This question is directed at democrats, middle of the road left leaners, liberals and left wing nut jobs :)lol:);

If the GOP were to combine it's basic principles of small gubmint, low taxes, fiscal sanity and a strong defense along with traditional dem issues like abortion, gay rights and realistic immigration policies, would you consider voting for a GOP candidate in the future?
Click to expand...
Your list of the GOP's "basic principles" is a load of delusional nonsense.

"small gubmint" - LOLOLOLOL....the only parts of government that the GOP wants to be smaller are the parts that regulate corporations and keep them from poisoning the environment and killing people with unsafe work conditions. The GOP would outlaw abortion and the size of the '*****-patrol' police force that would be needed to enforce just that one would double the size of government.

"low taxes" - again LOLOLOLOLO....the only taxes the GOP wants to lower are the taxes on the very rich. They would be happy to shift the tax burden to the middle class and they even talk about "broadening the base" to include poor people who can barely afford to live now.

"fiscal sanity" - disgusting mislabeling of a heartless, uncompasssionate policy of greed coupled with disdain for the poor, elderly and disabled. To the GOP, this phrase means cutting all social programs in order to further cut the taxes on the super rich.

"strong defense" - this is not a GOP policy, this is our national policy supported by both parties.

The U.S. spent more on defense in 2011 than did the countries with the next 13 highest defense budgets combined
 
head of joaquin said:
Yeah, the ones I refer to actually have Ph.Ds. and don't think the gold standard is the next big thing.

But your OP's attempt to link conservative with sound economic policy is rebutted. Conservatived crank economic policies are vast failures. Remember that Bush meltdown thingie?
Click to expand...

Our recession is due to the collapse of the real estate bubble that was facilitated by an interventionist Gubmint who decided everyone should get a home loan including many who could not afford one. It created a false demand, increased prices exponentially and finally busted when the chickens came home to roost.

In Iceland, those responsible for incredibly ignorant and disastrous policies are in jail, including politicians and bankers. Here in the US those responsible are given million dollar bonuses, billions in bail outs and "stimulus" funds and in the case of politicians, re-elected.

Iceland is on the mend, we won't see any daylight for 10-20 years.
 
American said:
Rules of liberal politics:

#1 Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever compromise
#2 If you're asked to compromise, see Rule #1.
Click to expand...


This also applies to Conservatives.....compromise is lacking on both sides...specifically the far right and far left.
 
spanky said:
Our recession is due to the collapse of the real estate bubble that was facilitated by an interventionist Gubmint who decided everyone should get a home loan including many who could not afford one. It created a false demand, increased prices exponentially and finally busted when the chickens came home to roost.

In Iceland, those responsible for incredibly ignorant and disastrous policies are in jail, including politicians and bankers. Here in the US those responsible are given million dollar bonuses, billions in bail outs and "stimulus" funds and in the case of politicians, re-elected.

Iceland is on the mend, we won't see any daylight for 10-20 years.
Click to expand...

We have liftoff: government caused the housing bubble, even though all the facts show it was Bush's deregulation and tax cuts that did it.

Tell us, how many of the new loans during Bush's misrule were refis versus first time buyers, and how many of those were converted to CDSs and tranfered into REITS?

I know you've studied this, right?

By the way, I've noticed a difference between Iceland's economy -- one of the smallest and least diversified in the world -- and America's -- being the largest and most diversified on the planet. Have you noticed that?
 
spanky said:
If the GOP were to combine it's basic principles of small gubmint, low taxes, fiscal sanity and a strong defense
Click to expand...

Those are actually the platforms of the Democratic party, too. Where we differ is which things we want the small government to do (our current government is basically doing both), whose taxes it is more important to keep low, which items it is important to be fiscally sane about, and exactly how much defense we need in order to be strong.
 
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