• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Republicans Go Extinct in California

head of joaquin

head of joaquin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
12,029
Reaction score
3,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
In the state with the largest economy, most exports, most vibrant hi-tech industry, and brightest future for Pacific trade, Republicans have gone extinct as an influence in state government. Democrats won a supermajority in the Assembly and as the final count is done, will win a supermajority in the Senate. The GOP and its discredited, tired rhetorica about tax cuts for the rich and scapegoating immigrants is officially irrelevant to state politics.

This is a harbinger of what will happen to the GOP nationally as it is taken over by the Tea Party and its nativist, knownothing followers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...permajoritybre8a617h-20121107,0,5634205.story
 
Last edited:
If you're talking about California, they're also bankrupt. If I were a politico I wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sinking ship. Businesses and people leaving the state in droves.
 
clownboy said:
If you're talking about California, they're also bankrupt. If I were a politico I wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sinking ship. Businesses and people leaving the state in droves.
Click to expand...

Yes the GOP has been saying that for a while... they also said that the polls were wrong, that they would win in a landslide and many other things that they were wrong on.
 
clownboy said:
If you're talking about California, they're also bankrupt. If I were a politico I wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sinking ship. Businesses and people leaving the state in droves.
Click to expand...

Predictable tea party talking points. California's economy dwarfs any red state. As the recovery sets in, California's future is bright. Alabama, however, not so much.
 
clownboy said:
If you're talking about California, they're also bankrupt. If I were a politico I wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sinking ship. Businesses and people leaving the state in droves.
Click to expand...

Not really so much any more. Our unemployment rate is lower than it was a year ago, housing prices are up, most industries are adding new jobs at a slow but steady pace. Perhaps most tellingly, the strongest region in the state is also the most liberal (that would be the SF Bay Area). Hell, Silicon Valley alone is a larger economy than most states and some nations.
 
With all the hundreds of billions spent to get republicans the presidency, the majority in the Senate, they not only are EXTINCT...if they don't playball and help the working people of this nation, the young, the poor, and tax the rich, they will be BURIED as a party in 2014.
 
head of joaquin said:
In the state with the largest economy, most exports, most vibrant hi-tech industry, and brightest future for Pacific trade, Republicans have gone extinct as an influence in state government. Democrats won a supermajority in the Assembly and as the final count is done, will win a supermajority in the Senate. The GOP and its discredited, tired rhetorica about tax cuts for the rich and scapegoating immigrants is officially irrelevant to state politics.

This is a harbinger of what will happen to the GOP nationally as it is taken over by the Tea Party and its nativist, knownothing followers.

California Democrats headed for state legislature supermajority - chicagotribune.com
Click to expand...

California has always been the nation's trend setter.
 
How many candidates running for the legislature can you actually point to who were running on Tea Party rhetoric? Neither of the candidates on my ballot fit the label, I'd bet more on campaign money than anything else as the casual factor. In any case, the democrats now have nigh-absolute power in California, they will either fix the states problems or accept full responsibility for failure.
 
Aderleth said:
Not really so much any more. Our unemployment rate is lower than it was a year ago, housing prices are up, most industries are adding new jobs at a slow but steady pace. Perhaps most tellingly, the strongest region in the state is also the most liberal (that would be the SF Bay Area). Hell, Silicon Valley alone is a larger economy than most states and some nations.
Click to expand...

Except none of that is true. The bulk of my family lives in California, I was raised there. Silicon Valley has been emptying for years now and most of the tech companies have moved north where the water and consistent clean electricity are. The home prices have not rebounded, you're just not hemorraging quite as badly. Many of my relatives work for or with the state (mostly law enforcement, but some in benefit and pension dispersal), and the state is still actively laying off workers.

There's another huge budget shorfall coming again this year and taxes (all of them) are once again on the rise.
 
clownboy said:
Except none of that is true. The bulk of my family lives in California, I was raised there. Silicon Valley has been emptying for years now and most of the tech companies have moved north where the water and consistent clean electricity are. The home prices have not rebounded, you're just not hemorraging quite as badly. Many of my relatives work for or with the state (mostly law enforcement, but some in benefit and pension dispersal), and the state is still actively laying off workers.

There's another huge budget shorfall coming again this year and taxes (all of them) are once again on the rise.
Click to expand...

The housing market certainly hasn't rebounded to pre-bubble days if that's what you mean, but no, it's no longer hemmoraging. Nor is the job market anything like what you're suggesting. Take a look:

More Jobs, Falling Unemployment Point to Strong Economic Growth Across Bay Area | Bay Area Real Estate Market Blog | Pacific Union International

San Francisco housing market booms bigger than ever | Dan Schreiber | Local | San Francisco Examiner

Note that the first sentence in the second article references a "new wave of tech workers." While you may or may not be right about some tech companies leaving (I've heard nothing about this, personally) it's certainly the case that new ones pop up all the damn time, and the big boys (e.g. Apple, Google) are constantly expanding.

I agree with you that the state budget is ****ed, but the general economic conditions in the Bay Area are substantially better than most of the rest of the country. And yes, Silicon Valley is a larger economy than most states.
 
clownboy said:
If you're talking about California, they're also bankrupt. If I were a politico I wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sinking ship. Businesses and people leaving the state in droves.
Click to expand...

AdamT said:
California has always been the nation's trend setter.
Click to expand...

I am very much afraid that this may be correct. California's economy is imploding, due, in very large part, to exactly the same sort of policies that Obama's administration has been, and can be expected to continue to be, promoting at the national level. What is happening here in California may very well indeed be what we can expect to see happen to the entire nation.

How many of those of you who claim that the economy in California is doing well, actually live here under this economy, and are experiencing the effects thereof? I suspect that the answer is somewhere between zero and zero.
 
Last edited:
Aderleth said:
The housing market certainly hasn't rebounded to pre-bubble days if that's what you mean, but no, it's no longer hemmoraging. Nor is the job market anything like what you're suggesting. Take a look:

More Jobs, Falling Unemployment Point to Strong Economic Growth Across Bay Area | Bay Area Real Estate Market Blog | Pacific Union International

San Francisco housing market booms bigger than ever | Dan Schreiber | Local | San Francisco Examiner

Note that the first sentence in the second article references a "new wave of tech workers." While you may or may not be right about some tech companies leaving (I've heard nothing about this, personally) it's certainly the case that new ones pop up all the damn time, and the big boys (e.g. Apple, Google) are constantly expanding.

I agree with you that the state budget is ****ed, but the general economic conditions in the Bay Area are substantially better than most of the rest of the country. And yes, Silicon Valley is a larger economy than most states.
Click to expand...

The PacUnion and the Examiner will be happy to know pumping sunshine up your skirt is working. And neither Apple nor Google manufacture or assemble anything in California anymore. Yeah, Intel keeps it's corporate offices in Santa Clara, but all the fab plants have moved north and to Ireland.

The entire state is now hurting for water and that doesn't set them up for a rosey future recovery. Taxes continue to climb unabated and state and county workers (the ones who haven't been laid off) suffer budget shortfall and paycheck delays every year now. This year will be no different.

SF is a financial center. You know those rapists the left loves to hate. Only thing giving the city a good profile right now. California survives largely due to cheap illegal labor in the fields, the huge mega-corp agribusiness and the financial centers.
 
clownboy said:
If you're talking about California, they're also bankrupt. If I were a politico I wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sinking ship. Businesses and people leaving the state in droves.
Click to expand...

The fiscal situation stems much from the fact that the republicans a bit back put through a law that any new tax increase takes a supermajority to be approved. Something like that... not too sure about the details.

But the issue is that they kept spending. I'm wondering if they will now repeal that so that they can match revenue to spending. That would heal the budget rather fast.
 
poweRob said:
The fiscal situation stems much from the fact that the republicans a bit back put through a law that any new tax increase takes a supermajority to be approved. Something like that... not too sure about the details.
Click to expand...

That was Proposition 13, passed a very long time ago. Unfortunately, we passed a new initiative a few elections ago that gutted it. In spite of Proposition 13, California has long been one of the most overtaxed states in the nation; and our economy is suffering greatly because of it.


poweRob said:
But the issue is that they kept spending. I'm wondering if they will now repeal that so that they can match revenue to spending. That would heal the budget rather fast.
Click to expand...

The issue is spending. Way too much spending. I do not think that it is in any way possible for our economy to continue to support the level for government spending that currently exists. The economy is contracting, and spending is growing. Any further taxation will only contract the economy even faster.

The only thing that could save California's economy would be for our state government to reduce spending, at least in accordance with the shrinking of the economy.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
That was Proposition 13, passed a very long time ago. Unfortunately, we passed a new initiative a few elections ago that gutted it. In spite of Proposition 13, California has long been one of the most overtaxed states in the nation; and our economy is suffering greatly because of it.




The issue is spending. Way too much spending. I do not think that it is in any way possible for our economy to continue to support the level for government spending that currently exists. The economy is contracting, and spending is growing. Any further taxation will only contract the economy even faster.

The only thing that could save California's economy would be for our state government to reduce spending, at least in accordance with the shrinking of the economy.
Click to expand...


Well I'm a big fan of Jerry Brown. You like him? From what I've read he's been cutting hard into spending all over that state.
 
poweRob said:
The fiscal situation stems much from the fact that the republicans a bit back put through a law that any new tax increase takes a supermajority to be approved. Something like that... not too sure about the details.

But the issue is that they kept spending. I'm wondering if they will now repeal that so that they can match revenue to spending. That would heal the budget rather fast.
Click to expand...

As mentioned Prop 13 was decades ago. The truly damaging change was put forth by democrats. It placed nearly 85% of the California budget as required by state constitution. That's why liberal or conservative governors have gone nutso trying to find where to cut. Also why the children's programs that didn't get the constitutional treatment take the brunt of cuts.

It's an exceptionally stupid way to run a state, and why they cannot react to budget shortfalls.
 
poweRob said:
The fiscal situation stems much from the fact that the republicans a bit back put through a law that any new tax increase takes a supermajority to be approved. Something like that... not too sure about the details.

But the issue is that they kept spending. I'm wondering if they will now repeal that so that they can match revenue to spending. That would heal the budget rather fast.
Click to expand...

The Republicans did not put that in but the people of California for better or worse put that in. The Democrats tried and could not repeal it because it takes a constitutional ammendment and they did not have the votes in the legislature. They attempted to repeal through ballot initiative but failed. It will not likely be repealed. The good news is that now with a super-majority in both houses the government won't be handcuffed by one or two windbags.

All arguements aside from partisan politics the CA economy was in bad shape prior to economic collapse of '08. Mainly due to the marketization of electricity, downturn in defense contracting and downturn in the tech markets. Add to this the economic collapse of '08 and CA took it in the shorts. Compiling the problem was a few individuals deciding they new better than the vast majority of CA held the state's budget hostage. In order to get a budget the state had to make steep cuts in the Govt sector.

The result was CA not only took it in the shorts in the private sector but also in the public sector. Many companies were fleeing CA not because of taxes or regulation but because 1. they had no stability in government due to the afore mentioned hostage taking. 2. they could not count on cheap energy. 3. they could not count on attracting the talent they needed to come or stay in CA because of the housing bubble collapse.

The good news is that the govt will no longer be held hostage. The housing market is making a comeback. Through the clean energy initiative we should be able to return to a stable energy market. Apple is taking beating over their foreign factories and China is looking less appealing for manufacturing by the day. All in all I don't think CA future could be any brighter.

P.S. as far as the water shortage goes it is pretty much solving itself we are doing less and less farming in the desert.
 
clownboy said:
The PacUnion and the Examiner will be happy to know pumping sunshine up your skirt is working.
Click to expand...

Pointing out relevant facts is "pumping sunshine"?

clownboy said:
And neither Apple nor Google manufacture or assemble anything in California anymore. Yeah, Intel keeps it's corporate offices in Santa Clara, but all the fab plants have moved north and to Ireland.
Click to expand...

Apple, Google and Intel don't need to manufacture anything here. They create craploads of jobs for high paid, skilled tech workers. As do tons of other tech companies.

clownboy said:
The entire state is now hurting for water and that doesn't set them up for a rosey future recovery. Taxes continue to climb unabated and state and county workers (the ones who haven't been laid off) suffer budget shortfall and paycheck delays every year now. This year will be no different.
Click to expand...

That is true. Economic recovery is a slow and imperfect process.

clownboy said:
SF is a financial center. You know those rapists the left loves to hate.
Click to expand...

I'm a lawyer who works in the financial district, primarily on white collar civil cases. So yes, I'm quite familiar with the financial community in San Francisco.

clownboy said:
Only thing giving the city a good profile right now.
Click to expand...

Not true. SF is also a locus for the tech industry, has a thriving artistic community, and brings in tourism dollars like practically nowhere else in the US.

clownboy said:
California survives largely due to cheap illegal labor in the fields, the huge mega-corp agribusiness and the financial centers.
Click to expand...

Also by having an unusually smart, well-educated technical workforce that continues to push for innovations that impact the entire planet. Oh, and the film/television/video game industries.
 
clownboy said:
As mentioned Prop 13 was decades ago. The truly damaging change was put forth by democrats. It placed nearly 85% of the California budget as required by state constitution. That's why liberal or conservative governors have gone nutso trying to find where to cut. Also why the children's programs that didn't get the constitutional treatment take the brunt of cuts.

It's an exceptionally stupid way to run a state, and why they cannot react to budget shortfalls.
Click to expand...

Prop 13 was a trojan horse promoted by the odious Jarvis anti-tax fetishists. They claimed that the purpose was to prevent widows from losing their homes as values increased. But they cleverly included corporations as the beneficiaries of Prop 13 limitation -- and they are hardly struggling widows.

Essentially Prop 13 lets some of the largest corporations on the planet own some of the most expensive real estate on the planet and pay almost no property tax (or at least pay property taxes not commensurate with value).

Studies shows that if Prop 13 had not included the trojan horse of corporate tax limitations, California wouldn't have a deficit at all.

Prop 13 should be amended to exclude corporate property. Problem solved. Budget solved.
 
clownboy said:
Except none of that is true. The bulk of my family lives in California, I was raised there. Silicon Valley has been emptying for years now and most of the tech companies have moved north where the water and consistent clean electricity are. The home prices have not rebounded, you're just not hemorraging quite as badly. Many of my relatives work for or with the state (mostly law enforcement, but some in benefit and pension dispersal), and the state is still actively laying off workers.

There's another huge budget shorfall coming again this year and taxes (all of them) are once again on the rise.
Click to expand...

Home prices in California's major markets have increased from their lows: S&P | August 2012 | Americas

California's unemployment rate has fallen from 11.7% to 10.2% over the past 12 months: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/laus_10192012.pdf
 
head of joaquin said:
Prop 13 was a trojan horse promoted by the odious Jarvis anti-tax fetishists. They claimed that the purpose was to prevent widows from losing their homes as values increased. But they cleverly included corporations as the beneficiaries of Prop 13 limitation -- and they are hardly struggling widows.

Essentially Prop 13 lets some of the largest corporations on the planet own some of the most expensive real estate on the planet and pay almost no property tax (or at least pay property taxes not commensurate with value).

Studies shows that if Prop 13 had not included the trojan horse of corporate tax limitations, California wouldn't have a deficit at all.

Prop 13 should be amended to exclude corporate property. Problem solved. Budget solved.
Click to expand...

You are presuming that California's problems can be solved or mitigated my increasing taxation. California is, in spite of Proposition 13, one of the most heavily overtaxed states in the nation. Any increase in taxation, on any segment, would only further damage our economy.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
You are presuming that California's problems can be solved or mitigated my increasing taxation. California is, in spite of Proposition 13, one of the most heavily overtaxed states in the nation. Any increase in taxation, on any segment, would only further damage our economy.
Click to expand...

The problem is Prop 13 exempted some of the richest corporations in the world owning the some of the most valuable property in the world. Which of course was Jarvis' real agenda. He didn't give a damn about putative widows.

Now that's pretty stupid. Generally you should tax people with lots of money. So if California had exempted corporations from Prop 13 protection, it wouldn't now have to have such a high tax rate.
 
head of joaquin said:
The problem is Prop 13 exempted some of the richest corporations in the world owning the some of the most valuable property in the world. Which of course was Jarvis' real agenda. He didn't give a damn about putative widows.

Now that's pretty stupid. Generally you should tax people with lots of money. So if California had exempted corporations from Prop 13 protection, it wouldn't now have to have such a high tax rate.
Click to expand...

The only thing that would accomplish is to increase the rate at which large corporations are pulling their operations out of the state, and moving to other states with more business-friendly policies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom