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Let's admit it, no matter who wins today...

spanky

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...we're pretty much screwed either way. People have delusions about how much control the Prez OR Congress has in controlling the economy. They can give it nudge at best but they borrow hundreds of billions to do so (which has to be paid back later) and much of it goes to cronies and special interests. Even that which they give directly to the states is mostly squandered or used to pay last weeks bills.
 
...we're pretty much screwed either way. People have delusions about how much control the Prez OR Congress has in controlling the economy. They can give it nudge at best but they borrow hundreds of billions to do so (which has to be paid back later) and much of it goes to cronies and special interests. Even that which they give directly to the states is mostly squandered or used to pay last weeks bills.

There are other very important concerns besides the economy, Spanky.

Student Loan Debt
Public Pension Underfunding
Immigration

Just to name a few. As long as there's no majority in Congress, no matter who's elected, look for more gridlock. Harry Reid has already stepped up and made it very clear he will not work with Romney. And I'm sure the Republicans plan on returning the favor. Reid says he can't work with Romney - Washington Times
 
There are other very important concerns besides the economy, Spanky.

Student Loan Debt
Public Pension Underfunding
Immigration

Just to name a few. As long as there's no majority in Congress, no matter who's elected, look for more gridlock. Harry Reid has already stepped up and made it very clear he will not work with Romney. And I'm sure the Republicans plan on returning the favor. Reid says he can't work with Romney - Washington Times

Unfortunately, that's most likely correct.

The goal of the Republicans in Congress was to make Obama a one term president, and screw trying to solve any real problems. If they have succeeded, then we can count on the Democrats to return the favor. If they failed, then we can count on them to continue to keep the partisan rancor going.

Either way, we'll have a dysfunctional Congress working for the good of the party rather than the good of the nation.
 
There are other very important concerns besides the economy, Spanky.
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LOL, and thus, why you should never choose the name "Spanky" on a message board.

(I'm just having some fun with ya, Spank.)
 
Either way, we'll have a dysfunctional Congress working for the good of the party rather than the good of the nation.

That's nothing new. From the time a senator or representative enters the chamber, their only concern is, "How can I make sure I get re-elected? How can I raise the most money for my re-election bid?"

They are all whores.
 
Actually I would say just the opposite conclusion is justified: No matter who wins today, the country will be fine. Neither Obama nor Romney is going to destroy America. If the guy I like doesn't win, the country will survive and my life won't be affected much at all. The country has survived far worse things than a mediocre president.
 
Fire them all. You can't work together, get rid of them.
 
Unfortunately, that's most likely correct.

The goal of the Republicans in Congress was to make Obama a one term president, and screw trying to solve any real problems. If they have succeeded, then we can count on the Democrats to return the favor. If they failed, then we can count on them to continue to keep the partisan rancor going.

Either way, we'll have a dysfunctional Congress working for the good of the party rather than the good of the nation.

You summed this up perfectly!!
 
One way or another the sun will still rise tomorrow and the sky will not fall in on top of us if our guy doesn't win.....life will go on in America.....and in 4 years we'll do this all over again.
 
Actually I would say just the opposite conclusion is justified: No matter who wins today, the country will be fine. Neither Obama nor Romney is going to destroy America. If the guy I like doesn't win, the country will survive and my life won't be affected much at all. The country has survived far worse things than a mediocre president.

This is correct, IMO. While many Republicans refuse to admit it, the truth is that the economy is improving and has been for three years. There is good reason to believe that it will continue on its upwards path now that the real estate market is showing signs of life and both banks and consumers have deleveraged significantly. We should see GDP growth in a healthy 4% range in the next two or three years. As GDP grows and employment increases it will help us reduce deficits. Add in a modest revenue hike and mid/long term spending restraints and we will be just fine.
 
That's nothing new. From the time a senator or representative enters the chamber, their only concern is, "How can I make sure I get re-elected? How can I raise the most money for my re-election bid?"

They are all whores.

If we keep electing them, does that make us johns?
 
Realistically what is the answer. The "fire the bums" movement of the 90's did not work because too many people are locked into the idea of a two party system and the EC. They either see no alternative or are too scared to go outside their comfort zone.

It is very true that the two parties will continue to hack at each other no matter which one is in power and I see no end to that.

i do not see them as whores. I see them as pimps. They cut their deals, shuck the system and screw us or find other ways to do us. We are the whores because we are high on our own poltical fixes or on the idea that voting actually will do something. If we try and get away they come around and beat the **** out of us with thier politics, lies, gridlock, and other various methods. So we sit in the dark corner and wait for the next time.
 
There are other very important concerns besides the economy, Spanky.

Student Loan Debt
Public Pension Underfunding
Immigration

Just to name a few. As long as there's no majority in Congress, no matter who's elected, look for more gridlock. Harry Reid has already stepped up and made it very clear he will not work with Romney. And I'm sure the Republicans plan on returning the favor. Reid says he can't work with Romney - Washington Times

I don't see a problem with student loans, students need to pay them back, if the don't then default procedures come into play. Why should student loans be treated any differently then mortgages where hundreds of thousands of people have lost their homes to foreclosures and short sales? Why should they be treated any differently than car loans or credit card debt?

For years politicians have been larding the budgets and rewarding public employee union support with increasingly lavish pension plans and additions. If the cities and states can't fund them I say they go the way of a couple of them, BK and renegotiate them to what the public can afford.

There is no problem with immigration.
 
I don't see a problem with student loans, students need to pay them back, if the don't then default procedures come into play. Why should student loans be treated any differently then mortgages where hundreds of thousands of people have lost their homes to foreclosures and short sales? Why should they be treated any differently than car loans or credit card debt?

Perhaps they shouldn't be treated differently, but they are. For one, you can't deal with student loans in bankruptcy anymore and the student loan issuers have powers to collect that match the IRS (unlike mortgage and credit card issuers).

For years politicians have been larding the budgets and rewarding public employee union support with increasingly lavish pension plans and additions. If the cities and states can't fund them I say they go the way of a couple of them, BK and renegotiate them to what the public can afford.

A whole lot of this happens at the county level, and between state and federal legislation, they don't always have the room to move as you suggest. California is a good example of this. Lot of CA counties stuck between a rock and a hard place.

There is no problem with immigration.

Agreed, the problem is in illegal immigration.
 
Perhaps they shouldn't be treated differently, but they are. For one, you can't deal with student loans in bankruptcy anymore and the student loan issuers have powers to collect that match the IRS (unlike mortgage and credit card issuers).

From what I understand student loans could never be liquidated in a BK. But those taking the loans knew that when they signed the loan docs. Now they want to change the terms because they want to get out of paying them altogether.
 
From what I understand student loans could never be liquidated in a BK. But those taking the loans knew that when they signed the loan docs. Now they want to change the terms because they want to get out of paying them altogether.

Nope, used to be (before bankruptcy reform and new student loan regs) they could be written off in bankruptcy, just as you could mortgage and credit card debt.
 
Nope, used to be (before bankruptcy reform and new student loan regs) they could be written off in bankruptcy, just as you could mortgage and credit card debt.

True. And the reason they did that was because students were taking out loans in excess of a hundred thousand or more and when they graduated and before getting a job they declared BK and left the taxpayers holding the bag.

Quite a scam.
 
True. And the reason they did that was because students were taking out loans in excess of a hundred thousand or more and when they graduated and before getting a job they declared BK and left the taxpayers holding the bag.

Quite a scam.

Almost, but not quite. Bankrupcy isn't that easy a process nor is the judge bound to allow all the write offs you choose to list, and creditors get a say. If it's demontrated you didn't make a legitimate effort the judge can dismiss that line item from the bankrupcy consideration. This happens often.

However, students were (and are still) graduating with large student loans debts and never getting work, going un/underemployed for years afterwards.

It's a bit of a scam on the other side of the issue as well. Generally when a loan is issued, the ability to repay is at least considered. How the hell is an English major going to pay back 200k they borrowed to get a graduate degree? I'd call that a bad loan, and the bank should have to eat part of it when the default comes.
 
There are other very important concerns besides the economy, Spanky.

Student Loan Debt
Public Pension Underfunding
Immigration


Racial Equality
Social mobility by equal access to higher education
Right to self-defense
Right to choose health care provider or none
Right to die
Right to choose life partner without regard to gender
Right to speak freely and critically of any Religion including Islam...


There are allot more important things than the Economy, but the Economy will touch in some way on ALL of them.
 
True. And the reason they did that was because students were taking out loans in excess of a hundred thousand or more and when they graduated and before getting a job they declared BK and left the taxpayers holding the bag.

Quite a scam.


The Univeristies and Tuition inflation combined with turning higher education into high end entertainment resorts is far from faultless in this scam.
 
Almost, but not quite. Bankrupcy isn't that easy a process nor is the judge bound to allow all the write offs you choose to list, and creditors get a say. If it's demontrated you didn't make a legitimate effort the judge can dismiss that line item from the bankrupcy consideration. This happens often.

However, students were (and are still) graduating with large student loans debts and never getting work, going un/underemployed for years afterwards.

It's a bit of a scam on the other side of the issue as well. Generally when a loan is issued, the ability to repay is at least considered. How the hell is an English major going to pay back 200k they borrowed to get a graduate degree? I'd call that a bad loan, and the bank should have to eat part of it when the default comes.

But that isn't the way it works, is it. Student loans are backed by the US Gubmint. If the bank had to eat a bad loan most of those loans wouldn't be made because first of all they're based on future income, something the loan process can't monetize. They know the student will just go BK as soon as they get out of school and totter around for a year or so getting high and playing BeerPong.

Andas far as I'm concerned if a student wants to spend 200k getting a graduate degree in English they or their parents should pay for it themselves.

Not me.
 
The Univeristies and Tuition inflation combined with turning higher education into high end entertainment resorts is far from faultless in this scam.


Next to Defense Dept. contracting the next biggest scam in America is the cost of a high end university education.
 
...we're pretty much screwed either way. People have delusions about how much control the Prez OR Congress has in controlling the economy. They can give it nudge at best but they borrow hundreds of billions to do so (which has to be paid back later) and much of it goes to cronies and special interests. Even that which they give directly to the states is mostly squandered or used to pay last weeks bills.

I agree with that.As long as people continue to vote for the two party monopoly we will pretty much get the same crap no matter who wins.
 
I agree with that.As long as people continue to vote for the two party monopoly we will pretty much get the same crap no matter who wins.

There are pluses and minus's to the 2 party system, but no matter how many parties we have most people will still always vote for the candidate that promises them the most stuff. And it doesn't matter whose pocket it comes out of.
 
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