• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Fall On Your Sword, Libertarians, And Vote For Romney

David Watson said:
Libertarians take more votes from Obama than they do from Romney. Most "Libertarians" don't vote.
Click to expand...

If true, it's something for which we should all be greatful.
 
Velvet Elvis said:
Actually...the question should be: Are you happy with Obama having another four years?
.
Click to expand...

I'm not happy with either Obama or Romney. If I vote for Romney when I don't want him to be President either, where does that put us?

What kind of libertarian votes for Tweedle-Dee instead of Tweedle-Dum? They both have almost identical policies in many important areas. It makes no difference.
 
rocket88 said:
What kind of libertarian votes for Tweedle-Dee instead of Tweedle-Dum?
Click to expand...
As I've said before....I'd much rather vote for the potential failure than the proven failure. ...or to dethrone the proven failure.
 
Bigfoot 88 said:
How so?

I'd like to make a principled vote, but since there isn't a principled candidate I'll vote strategically instead.
Click to expand...

What's your complaint about Johnson?
 
AdamT said:
What's your complaint about Johnson?
Click to expand...

Here is an example: Romney was more harsh on FEMA than Johnson was in the wake of Sandy.

Don't get me wrong, he is great on most every issue, but its pragmatic and not ideological.
 
Paschendale said:
And you'd think that the religious fundamentalism and social control would turn libertarians off from Republicans. But apparently the (false) promise of a tax cut means more than personal liberty.

Republicans want to tell you with whom and how you can have sex. Of the two major parties, which one do you think is more likely to support legal marijuana? Democrats support abortion rights. Democrats support marriage equality. Republicans are much more likely to impose rules based on their Christian morality... even on those of us who aren't Christian.

All that means less than whether or a candidate staunchly or only kind of supports supply-side economics?
Click to expand...
I just don't pay attention to the religious nuts on the republican side, I think they will be their own downfall... most people that are religious are fine. In my view social conservatism will never have any realistic chance in the future, and I choose not to worry about it that much because to me there are much better things to worry about. Liberals gathering the masses to complain about such things is now just being used as a tool to have left wing government philosophy hitch a ride and sneak along with the end of social conservatism.

I've never had a republican tell me who I can have sex with. (I'm sure you can reference some random dudes quote I don't care about, but do you honestly believe that this country is at risk of such a thing if Romeny is elected?).

I don't give a s*** about marijuana. Principally, I think it should be legalized, but I don't do it and the smell of it is disgusting so I could just care less for now and be more concerned about better things.(this isn't me being a hypocrite, it's me knowing there are better things to be fighting for/against.)

Im libertarian and I don't support abortion. This because I consider the fetus at the moment of conception as a human being and should being given the same rights as any other human being. I am a Theist/Deist... If I was an Atheist I wouldn't give a s***, kill as many babies as you want they won't care or feel it! But since I believe we all must carry some kind of soul/spirit/force(whatever), that soul doesn't just fly in their the second the baby is born, if it is there... it was there at the very beginning. BUT since much of the culture is already desensitized, emotional, and selfish about abortion, I don't choose my politics around it... but I do voice my opinion on it whenever anyone asks.

Socialist policies are extremely difficult to undo once they are in place. And the state and philosophy of the economy, I feel, is the most important issue there is right now. So I very well may be voting for Romeny, but I won't know for sure until Im at the booth haha.
 
Velvet Elvis said:
As I've said before....I'd much rather vote for the potential failure than the proven failure. ...or to dethrone the proven failure.
Click to expand...

I'd rather not replace one failure with another. I'd rather not votr for a failure either way.

You can go on claiming to be a libertarian, but a vote for Romney is a vote to continue with big government and surrveillance of Americans citizens. It is a vote that you are OK giving up your personal freedom because Obama sucked. If that's what you want, a big government guy, then Romney's the right choice for you.
 
Ontologuy said:
As election eve draws nigh, it is clear that this neck-and-neck race is leaning just a hair toward Obama.

If Obama gets reelected, a whole lot more libertarians are going to be upset than happy.

Indeed, if Obama gets four more years, he may indeed do the things he's openly promised in his campaign that will greatly harm America and American citizens, all in the name of his idealized one-world U.N. borderless, nationless government fantasy. His continuing dismantling of America will economically cripple our country.

So, what can be done at this point to save America from certain economic devastation under four more years of Obama?

Simple: Libertarian Party voters need to fall on their sword .. and vote for Romney.

Yes, the election is that close, and Johnson of the Libertarian Party is projected to take just enough votes away from Romney to cost Romney the election.

Thus if all those who would vote Libertarian were to instead vote for Romney, Romney would likely win the election instead.

So, clearly, the choice is obvious for Libertarians: vote for Romney and thus win the election for the economic right .. or vote for Johnson, and guarantee Obama victory complete with sentencing America to four more years of left-wing socialist economics.

Now I realize that Libertarians want to make a "statement". They want to show people that one day the Libertarian Party will be a player, that one day a Libertarian candidate could win the White House.

But that day isn't tomorrow. And until that day is truly here, the only real statement on election day that voting Libertarian will make is that it really isn't very smart to cut off your nose to spite your face.

Just look back at 1992. Perot supporters defected from the Republicans rather than accept that their perfect idealized world did not exist. In anger, they seceded from their party, from the Republicans .. and thereby instantly guarateed Clinton the victory. They quickly came to rue their decision, and in their quiet reflective moments, they knew their mistake. So, where is Ross Perot and his party today? Nowhere to be found, because they simply were not a player.

And in 2000, it was Nader and the Green Party, composed of those defecting Democrats seceding from their party that cost Gore the election .. and don't you know how much guilt they endured in their quiet moments for not falling on their sword. And today, where are the Greens? Oh, they still exist on paper .. but are they a player? No. Not at all. They pose no threat to Obama, not even close to the huge election-costing threat The Libertarian Party poses to Romney.

So a word to the wise, to all of you Libertarians who think voting for Johnson will mean something of value: if you cost Romney the election, when you suddenly realize what you've done, and then for each and every liberal socialist dagger Obama thrusts into the economic heart of America thereafter, causing wage scales to plummet, American citizen income to drop, taxes and business regulations to rise .. and libertarian business owners to thus close shop ...

... Well, you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

So I implore you, to look deep within, way past any superficial ideological idealism .. and realize what you must do, for the good of the country, for the good of all your fellow American citizens: fall on your sword, and vote for Romney.
Click to expand...

A vote for Johnson would be a waste.

I view my vote for Romney - not as a vote for Romney - but as a vote against Obama.

Tomorrow I will be proud to vote against Obama (and other progressives)...
 
Ontologuy said:
As election eve draws nigh, it is clear that this neck-and-neck race is leaning just a hair toward Obama.

If Obama gets reelected, a whole lot more libertarians are going to be upset than happy.

Indeed, if Obama gets four more years, he may indeed do the things he's openly promised in his campaign that will greatly harm America and American citizens, all in the name of his idealized one-world U.N. borderless, nationless government fantasy. His continuing dismantling of America will economically cripple our country.

So, what can be done at this point to save America from certain economic devastation under four more years of Obama?

Simple: Libertarian Party voters need to fall on their sword .. and vote for Romney.

Yes, the election is that close, and Johnson of the Libertarian Party is projected to take just enough votes away from Romney to cost Romney the election.

Thus if all those who would vote Libertarian were to instead vote for Romney, Romney would likely win the election instead.

So, clearly, the choice is obvious for Libertarians: vote for Romney and thus win the election for the economic right .. or vote for Johnson, and guarantee Obama victory complete with sentencing America to four more years of left-wing socialist economics.

Now I realize that Libertarians want to make a "statement". They want to show people that one day the Libertarian Party will be a player, that one day a Libertarian candidate could win the White House.

But that day isn't tomorrow. And until that day is truly here, the only real statement on election day that voting Libertarian will make is that it really isn't very smart to cut off your nose to spite your face.

Just look back at 1992. Perot supporters defected from the Republicans rather than accept that their perfect idealized world did not exist. In anger, they seceded from their party, from the Republicans .. and thereby instantly guarateed Clinton the victory. They quickly came to rue their decision, and in their quiet reflective moments, they knew their mistake. So, where is Ross Perot and his party today? Nowhere to be found, because they simply were not a player.

And in 2000, it was Nader and the Green Party, composed of those defecting Democrats seceding from their party that cost Gore the election .. and don't you know how much guilt they endured in their quiet moments for not falling on their sword. And today, where are the Greens? Oh, they still exist on paper .. but are they a player? No. Not at all. They pose no threat to Obama, not even close to the huge election-costing threat The Libertarian Party poses to Romney.

So a word to the wise, to all of you Libertarians who think voting for Johnson will mean something of value: if you cost Romney the election, when you suddenly realize what you've done, and then for each and every liberal socialist dagger Obama thrusts into the economic heart of America thereafter, causing wage scales to plummet, American citizen income to drop, taxes and business regulations to rise .. and libertarian business owners to thus close shop ...

... Well, you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

So I implore you, to look deep within, way past any superficial ideological idealism .. and realize what you must do, for the good of the country, for the good of all your fellow American citizens: fall on your sword, and vote for Romney.
Click to expand...

No problem for me. As a libertarian I've always regarded the Libertarian Party as a SILLY WASTE OF TIME. When it comes time to vote I choose which of the two major parties fit my preferences best. No contest this year. Romney wants to cut taxes and regulations. That's smaller government, the polar opposite of what Obama wants to do.
 
Republicans think they are close to libertarian, but simply they are not even cloae at all. Don't let the hijacked tea party fool you. The tea party might have been close to libertarian for a time but now it is clearly more right than the republicans ever were. The problem is that deaspite all their lip service republicans do not believe in smaller government or less military dominance of the world. In fact they believe in larger government as long as it is government they want. They are also an enemy of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and general social freedoms true libertarians believe in. They are not even for states rights, they are just for passing off the bills to states to free up federal money for their big business friends Just because you want to dump the expe3nse of FEMA onto the states does not mean you are pro-states rights. Just because you want to give the states the ability to be prejudiced and take away the rights of the people without any federal interference does not mean you are for smaller government or liberty at all.

Sorry republicans, but you would hate a true libertarian president just as much as any dem president. And no Glen Beck and everyone on Fix noise is not libertarian in the slightest. About the only thing i can see republicans and libertarians share is gun rights. That does not make republicans libertarians by any sane rational conclusion. it is good that sane and rational are also not near the republican party line. This way they can pretend they are moral, honest, freedom loving people when they clearly have none of those qualities.

It is too bad too because i would actually love to see a true libertarian party become a competing third party. i think they are so different from both the dems and republicans that they would make great competition and real choice for those bothered with both parties. Hell, if we got some real libertarians in election I might just feel like I was voting for a candidate that i believe in instead of voting for the best of two bad opponents.
 
samsmart said:
I don't see why libertarians should vote for Romney over Obama when there's no difference between the two.
Click to expand...

OBAMAKARE
DEBT
ENERGY
BUSINESS

All huge differences.

We don't need just Romney... we need both chambers.
 
LowDown said:
No problem for me. As a libertarian I've always regarded the Libertarian Party as a SILLY WASTE OF TIME. When it comes time to vote I choose which of the two major parties fit my preferences best. No contest this year. Romney wants to cut taxes and regulations. That's smaller government, the polar opposite of what Obama wants to do.
Click to expand...

Seriously, you think Romney is going to free up the market? Give me a break, the guy is monopoly material all day long. His regulations will be to keep out competition rather than open things up for competition. There are markets you cannot get into simply because you cannot get the licensing to compete because the big boys have passed regulations to keep the little guy out, and that is Romneyland for you. You thin a worthless inherited millionaire like him is going to rely on the ability and innovation he never had to keep him on top? They guy does not have the ability his father had. What he does have is money and friends to protect his weak intellect from competition by regulating them out.

If you want to vote for romney for a lot of reasons go ahead. if you want to vote for him because he protects american business and wants to lower regulations so you have a chance you are really voting for the wrong guy. Obama is not the right guy either, but neither of them are good on that aspect at all.
 
rocket88 said:
I'd rather not replace one failure with another. I'd rather not votr for a failure either way.

You can go on claiming to be a libertarian, but a vote for Romney is a vote to continue with big government and surrveillance of Americans citizens. It is a vote that you are OK giving up your personal freedom because Obama sucked. If that's what you want, a big government guy, then Romney's the right choice for you.
Click to expand...

You think Democrats are for Liberty?
OBAMAKARE. That's a control freak's dream. With that they've got you by the balls.

We've got debt up to our eyeballs, 4-years of unemployment at 8%, business has no confidence in this guy... and Obama is your guy?

Because of what??? The Patriot Act??? Something signed into law with Democrats???

egg-on-your-face.jpg
 
Dissent said:
Nope. Voting for Johnson. I hope Obama gets re elected and destroys the country so we can start anew.
Click to expand...

This, this right here is why neither side should ever vote for a Libertarian. They are for the most part - extremists with no new ideas. Yeah son, you keep thinking that. The best way to fix a leaky sink is to the demolish the house.
 
zimmer said:
OBAMAKARE
DEBT
ENERGY
BUSINESS

All huge differences.

We don't need just Romney... we need both chambers.
Click to expand...

Oh look, you spelled Obamacare with a K. I bet you feel so very clever over that...
 
I've heard that falling on your sword can be like a gateway drug, leading to other bad habits... like tripping over your dick. :mrgreen:
 
tererun said:
Seriously, you think Romney is going to free up the market? Give me a break, the guy is monopoly material all day long. His regulations will be to keep out competition rather than open things up for competition. There are markets you cannot get into simply because you cannot get the licensing to compete because the big boys have passed regulations to keep the little guy out, and that is Romneyland for you. You thin a worthless inherited millionaire like him is going to rely on the ability and innovation he never had to keep him on top? They guy does not have the ability his father had. What he does have is money and friends to protect his weak intellect from competition by regulating them out.

If you want to vote for romney for a lot of reasons go ahead. if you want to vote for him because he protects american business and wants to lower regulations so you have a chance you are really voting for the wrong guy. Obama is not the right guy either, but neither of them are good on that aspect at all.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but there's no evidence that Romney wants to do any of that. You are projecting your own rot into the argument. Bain capital was not a big croney capitalism outfit, for example. They don't do a lot of special pleading with the government.
 
apdst said:
I can't imagine why a Libertarian would vote for Obama to begin with. Libertarians are Righties, anyway.
Click to expand...
haymarket said:
The OP in this thread confirms what I have always known - libertarians are just Republicans when you really get down to it.
Click to expand...

WRONG. The majority of Libertarians are, generally speaking, fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
This would mean a push towards a true free market system, and reduced taxation.
The flip side to this would be that issues like gay marriage, abortion rights, and welfare would be relegated to the states to handle.

The whole drug war argument from Libertarians is an issue of personal freedom first, and government waste second.
AP IMPACT: After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals

Bigfoot 88 said:
Well, you mix parties with ideologies.
Also, some are believers in the lesser of two evils.
And, many libertarians are trying to change the message of the Republican party.
Click to expand...

And look how well that worked for them;
GOP approves delegate rule changes over vocal objections

Paschendale said:
And you'd think that the religious fundamentalism and social control would turn libertarians off from Republicans. But apparently the (false) promise of a tax cut means more than personal liberty.
Republicans want to tell you with whom and how you can have sex. Of the two major parties, which one do you think is more likely to support legal marijuana? Democrats support abortion rights. Democrats support marriage equality. Republicans are much more likely to impose rules based on their Christian morality... even on those of us who aren't Christian.
All that means less than whether or a candidate staunchly or only kind of supports supply-side economics?
Click to expand...

Redress said:
Libertarians should voter on their core issue. Democrats are more likely to legalize marijuana, so I would suggest voting Obama.
Click to expand...

Many Republicans favor legalization as well;
Prominent Republicans Support Legalizing Marijuana - Health News - redOrbit
Paul Ryan On Medical Marijuana Legalization: 'Let The States Decide'


Velvet Elvis said:
Actually...the question should be: Are you happy with Obama having another four years?
...because any vote other than Romney puts him there. ...Right in a position where he doesn't have to worry about his reputation in another four years. He can drive a stake right in the heart of America without having to worry about being re-elected.
Click to expand...

Some of us are not content with being sodomized by a party that has told us to **** off, and will NOT give them our support, regardless of who their main opponents are.
GOP approves delegate rule changes over vocal objections
 
I absolutely LOVE how the faux-conservatives of this era have started to repeat the chants of "Democrats are the tax and spend party" and "Republicans are the party of small government and less taxes".


PLEASE - back this up with ANY evidence you can point to over the last decade or two that shows any Republican president that has not increased the size of the government, signed into law things that infringe on our rights, and increased the debt of this nation.

Please.

Go ahead. Show me.

The republican party is all about increased government size, more government intrusion on our rights and lives, and keeping the masses as dependent on government as any democrat ever.
 
Feel free not to support Romney Libertarians. Why give the GOP a reason to let your future candidates' electors count at the convention? I am sure the democrats will embrace you at theirs.
 
Fisher said:
Feel free not to support Romney Libertarians. Why give the GOP a reason to let your future candidates' electors count at the convention? I am sure the democrats will embrace you at theirs.
Click to expand...

If the republicans lose it's a direct reflection on how weak Romney is. That's an important lesson.

The last thing us third party voters want is any party thinking a "romney type" candidate is acceptable for this country.

We don't see Romney as an improvement. It's really that simple.
 
Dragonfly said:
If the republicans lose it's a direct reflection on how weak Romney is. That's an important lesson.

The last thing us third party voters want is any party thinking a "romney type" candidate is acceptable for this country.

We don't see Romney as an improvement. It's really that simple.
Click to expand...

I simply cannot like this thread enough times. We may disagree on other things, but this, THIS, I agree with 100%, more if it was mathematically possible.
 
Libertarians voting for Romney?

In other words - compromise your vote.

No thanks.

America has enough compromises in it's politics...that is entirely the problem.

It's not that there are not enough good people that would make fine POTUS's in America.

It's that Americans are so caught up in partisan politics - they see virtually no other party.

This thread is a good example of that.

Both Obama and Romney make/would make horrible POTUS's.

But since all America sees is these two people - it is the lesser of two evils.


Partisan politics is destroying America.
 
Falling on one's sword is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I mean, think about it. That's like shooting yourself with your own gun...by accident. Which is to say, only idiots tend to do it, with any regularity. Frankly, I just don't fancy this idea at all. Sorry. It just doesn't strike me as being a smart thing to do, by ANYONE'S measure, really. So, yeah, I guess what I'm saying is, I'm gonna go ahead and pass, and just vote on principles, rather than fear.


But hey, thanks for offering me the chance to consider my options, lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom