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The cost of ObamaCare

Boo Radley said:
If it did now, it wasn't due to reform. There is no logical reason for that. So, while I doubt it went up $300/month, if it did, you may want to consider if they merely saw a sucker. :coffeepap
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I have my wife's insurance( she works for a non-profit hospital here in Ohio). The insurance plan had been running us $80/mo until this year, when its going to be $140/mo. I can't really complain since its cheap to begin with, but that's a 75% increase.

Additionally, the hospital was bleeding money due to Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement rates. With the expansion of those programs in the ACA, they are very worried about their future sustainability.
 
Samhain said:
I have my wife's insurance( she works for a non-profit hospital here in Ohio). The insurance plan had been running us $80/mo until this year, when its going to be $140/mo. I can't really complain since its cheap to begin with, but that's a 75% increase.

Additionally, the hospital was bleeding money due to Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement rates. With the expansion of those programs in the ACA, they are very worried about their future sustainability.
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Four years ago, mine went from $85 a month to $235 a month. Who do I blame?

There is no logical reason for it to go up. We can compare polices all we want, but the fact remains, there is nothing in reform that should make it go up.
 
Boo Radley said:
If it did now, it wasn't due to reform. There is no logical reason for that. So, while I doubt it went up $300/month, if it did, you may want to consider if they merely saw a sucker. :coffeepap
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I've already, multiple times, shown it will. Purely due to PPACA and absolutely no other reason.

My insurance is ~$600/mo. Oregon's exchange will cost over $900. For a larger deductible and larger out of pocket max.

Indeed they saw a sucker. The 'they' is Obama.

You're an Obama guy. No manner of proof will do. I almost hope he gets elected so the exchanges do get implemented so the people see exactly what will happen.

$300/mo is going to destroy the middle class.
 
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Aberration said:
I've already, multiple times, shown it will. Purely due to PPACA and absolutely no other reason.

My insurance is ~$600/mo. Oregon's exchange will cost over $900. For a larger deductible and larger out of pocket max.

Indeed they saw a sucker. The 'they' is Obama.

You're an Obama guy. No manner of proof will do. I almost hope he gets elected so the exchanges do get implemented so the people see exactly what will happen.

$300/mo is going to destroy the middle class.
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I'm unconvinced, with good reason. But try again and I'll go over it later when I return.
 
Boo Radley said:
Four years ago, mine went from $85 a month to $235 a month. Who do I blame?

There is no logical reason for it to go up. We can compare polices all we want, but the fact remains, there is nothing in reform that should make it go up.
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No logical reason? 25 Million additional people to cover. 400% and under 'poverty' gets a subsidy.

Which is why I will have today $300 more a month. And I am not even close to Obama millionaires ($250K).
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm unconvinced, with good reason. But try again and I'll go over it later when I return.
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I don't need to convince you of it anymore than you need to convinced the Sun comes up. It's all there to see. I have provided the links, my exact coverage my income and what the Oregon exchange itself says they will charge me.

As I said. Nothing will do for you. Your only good reason is you support Obama. No other logical reason for you to immediately dismiss it.
 
Aberration said:
No logical reason? 25 Million additional people to cover. 400% and under 'poverty' gets a subsidy.

Which is why I will have today $300 more a month. And I am not even close to Obama millionaires ($250K).
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Yes, with premiums from all of them. So, no, more business means they should lower rates, especially as most those will be healthy people. .
 
Aberration said:
I don't need to convince you of it anymore than you need to convinced the Sun comes up. It's all there to see. I have provided the links, my exact coverage my income and what the Oregon exchange itself says they will charge me.

As I said. Nothing will do for you. Your only good reason is you support Obama. No other logical reason for you to immediately dismiss it.
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Frankly, I haven't seen your links. I suspect they are from questionable sources, but I'm open to looking at them.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, with premiums from all of them. So, no, more business means they should lower rates, especially as most those will be healthy people. .
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They aren't paying the full premium. Most of the 25M are poor so the majority of the premium is being subsidized.
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, those don't begin to help you. The argument here the reasons for it. Try again.
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Exactly as I said. A link to the plan I have, and the cost and the coverage. A link to the Oregon exchange, what it will cost and all. But still no good.

Shocking.
 
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Aberration said:
Exactly as I said. A link to the plan I have, and the cost and the coverage. A link to the Oregon exchange, what it will cost and all. But still no good.

Shocking.
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NO, it's not. Try to understand the argument. It is that there is not reason for it to go up. None. They get more money with new customers, and most of them are people who are not ill. As such, they make more profit.
 
Boo Radley said:
NO, it's not. Try to understand the argument. It is that there is not reason for it to go up. None. They get more money with new customers, and most of them are people who are not ill. As such, they make more profit.
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They do not need to be ill. Any treatment is more demand. More demand without more supply drives costs up. Unless you can explain where the supply for 25M additional demanding patients is going to come from. Preventive care takes more money and resources than immediate care.

And they aren't paying close to the full premium to get that coverage. While I and the rest of the middle class pay higher premiums that you can't reason out.
 
The most eye popping criticism I have heard to date about Obamacare is that it provides for 25 million new "patients" but does provide for 1 new doctor. This is a harsh reality that must be considered. Today the uninsured generally don't require anything accept emergency care. Give them all insurance which makes routine doctor visits essentially free for them and the system is going to get overwhelmed.
 
Aberration said:
They do not need to be ill. Any treatment is more demand. More demand without more supply drives costs up. Unless you can explain where the supply for 25M additional demanding patients is going to come from. Preventive care takes more money and resources than immediate care.

And they aren't paying close to the full premium to get that coverage. While I and the rest of the middle class pay higher premiums that you can't reason out.
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Try to understand. Well people use less than sick people. Insurance is based on the permise that well people will pay for sick people. If you're right, insurance can never be profitable, which is why you're worng. And yes, the full premium is being paid.
 
Boo Radley said:
Try to understand. Well people use less than sick people. Insurance is based on the permise that well people will pay for sick people. If you're right, insurance can never be profitable, which is why you're worng. And yes, the full premium is being paid.
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Try to understand. I can get better coverage for significantly less right now than the exchange will offer.
 
Oh, anyone can have fun with numbers.
The Republicans fought tooth and nail to get the Public Option removed
from the Health Care debate----when they debated at all.
Then they whine about costs going up. Which they also did BEFORE Obamacare.

The story regarding the "extra taxes" don't take into account the "extra customers"
that insurance companies are getting due to Obama care.

The newly insured will be needing checkups and other insurance-covered services.
An X-ray technician, for example, can be trained relatively quickly (months) so Obamacare will be stimulatory.

Even Mitt-A-Sketch says that he likes parts of Obamacare. Although he could change his mind.

As the population gets older, I would rather see a tweaked Obamacare rather than relying on EmergencyRoomCare.
 
Aberration said:
Try to understand. I can get better coverage for significantly less right now than the exchange will offer.
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Stay focused. There is no logical reason for insurance companies to raise premiums. If they do, then they are merely doing so because they want to. having more business is a boom for them, not a burden.
 
Boo Radley said:
Stay focused. There is no logical reason for insurance companies to raise premiums. If they do, then they are merely doing so because they want to. having more business is a boom for them, not a burden.
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Whether you can find a logical reason or not, premiums are going up. They have increased sharply already and you can bet that they aren't ever going to go down. Have insurance rates EVER decreased from the previous year? Your argument seems to be that because you can't seem to find a logical reason for the increase there isn't really a problem. The fact is that the threat of rising premiums was an issue raised by many prior to the passage of Obamacare. It was, of course, dismissed at the time by the supporters of the bill as "fear mongering" and part of a disinformation campaign by right wing loonies.

Well, here we are two years later and guess what? Obamacare passed and premiums have gone up. Surprise, surprise...
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Whether you can find a logical reason or not, premiums are going up. They have increased sharply already and you can bet that they aren't ever going to go down. Have insurance rates EVER decreased from the previous year? Your argument seems to be that because you can't seem to find a logical reason for the increase there isn't really a problem. The fact is that the threat of rising premiums was an issue raised by many prior to the passage of Obamacare. It was, of course, dismissed at the time by the supporters of the bill as "fear mongering" and part of a disinformation campaign by right wing loonies.

Well, here we are two years later and guess what? Obamacare passed and premiums have gone up. Surprise, surprise...
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No you are missing my argument. I'm arguing health care reform is not the reason for the increase. Insurance was increasing long before reform. And as I recall, and as I have always argued, the big thing was not that this would lower premiums, but that more people would be covered. That this would allow people to better manage their health. Now, as long is medicine is seen a a market commodity, a widget, it will always out price a good number of people. And while I don't seek everything for everyone, I do argue that adequate care can be provided cheaper and even better for most than we do now. I believe a two tiered Single payer system would work better here.

But, the argument I am having is that the claim health care reform caused premiums to rise is false.
 
Boo Radley said:
Stay focused. There is no logical reason for insurance companies to raise premiums. If they do, then they are merely doing so because they want to. having more business is a boom for them, not a burden.
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Hmm. I could give you a few lessons on focus.

If I can get a policy now for $300 cheaper, and only on the exchange will it cost more... Hmm.
 
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