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Romney lie - Jeep moving all production to China

MaggieD said:
Verax. I'm waiting. Were you LYING or did you make a mistake??

Edit: I'm beginning to like these "Gotcha' Games!"
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theres a big difference between expressing oneself spontaneously on the internet and holding a speech, a product of miniscule micro-management by rhetorical experts and researchers as part of a massive campaign in a final bid for one of the most powerful jobs in the known universe.
 
Panopticon said:
theres a big difference between expressing oneself spontaneously on the internet and holding a speech, a product of miniscule micro-management by rhetorical experts and researchers as part of a massive campaign in a final bid for one of the most powerful jobs in the known universe.
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Please link me to his saying this "a number of times" and putting together an ad about it. It was clear, even to Chrysler, that the Bloomberg article was misleading. This is just one more "gotcha moment" in a series of supposed gotcha moments that's permeated this campaign. Worst election cycle I ever remember.
 
MaggieD said:
Please link me to his saying this "a number of times" and putting together an ad about it. It was clear, even to Chrysler, that the Bloomberg article was misleading. This is just one more "gotcha moment" in a series of supposed gotcha moments that's permeated this campaign. Worst election cycle I ever remember.
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I havent made that claim. Note which claim I was replying to. Of COURSE there is a BIG difference. Or should be...
 
MaggieD said:
Mithros, I've asked several times on this thread to link me to the more than one time he supposedly said this. And now you say he made an ad around it. Could you please link me to these things? Chrysler said the Bloomberg article was misleading. I posted their letter earlier in this thread. I'm willing to admit that Romney LIED if anyone can show me that, after he was corrected, he kept on saying it. (Blogs all over the internet were also saying Chrysler was moving out their Jeep production; that, combined with the confusing Bloomberg story, sure makes this seem like a mistake. Got any links to support your assertions?
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He's running a misleading ad on the claim.

Romney under fire for ad claim that Jeep brand moving to China - The Hill's Transportation Report
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney is facing criticism for an ad his campaign in running in Ohio that repeats a disputed claim that Chrysler is moving production of its Jeep brand to China.

The ad, called “Who Will Do More,” is intended to counter Democratic attacks on Romney’s opposition to the $80 billion bailout that was given to Chrysler and General Motors in 2008 and 2009.

But the ad references a report that Chrysler is outsourcing its U.S. Jeep production, despite a statement from the company that it is considering opening a plant in China to build cars for Chinese consumers.
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They will build Jeeps in China, but not at the loss of American jobs. In fact they are adding 1100 jobs.
 
Panopticon said:
I havent made that claim. Note which claim I was replying to. Of COURSE ther is a BIG difference. Or should be...
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Yes, sorry, I'd just replied to the poster above and had that subject on my brain. ;)

Part of my reply applies to yours though: Even Chrysler blamed the Bloomberg article saying it was confusing. This wasn't done intentionally. It was a monumental gaff. Why can't we just admit those things? Seems to me both sides have ample things to complain about without accusing someone of doing something intentionally, on purpose and with evil intent when it is nothing more than a mistake.
 
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Gina said:
He's running a misleading ad on the claim.

Romney under fire for ad claim that Jeep brand moving to China - The Hill's Transportation Report


They will build Jeeps in China, but not at the loss of American jobs. In fact they are adding 1100 jobs.
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Well, Gina! Thank you very much. I was even hoping it was a SUPERPAC ad, but it's not. This ad should be pulled. There's no question about it. Intentional? I still don't think so; but he's my guy, so I'm not as quick to place blame. I can see why others would seize on it, though.

Thank you again. FINALLY someone posts "the story behind the story."

Edit: That ad should have been pulled as soon as Chrysler came out with their letter of denial. If it wasn't, it was deceitful.
 
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AdamT said:
Oh please, it was a bald-faced lie, and he's repeated it more than once. Romney has absolutely no conscience. The same day he told the lie Chrysler announced that it was adding 1,100 workers in the US to build Jeeps.
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I read that he is even running ads in Ohio on this lie... pathetic.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, Gina! Thank you very much. I was even hoping it was a SUPERPAC ad, but it's not. This ad should be pulled. There's no question about it. Intentional? I still don't think so; but he's my guy, so I'm not as quick to place blame. I can see why others would seize on it, though.

Thank you again. FINALLY someone posts "the story behind the story."

Edit: That ad should have been pulled as soon as Chrysler came out with their letter of denial. If it wasn't, it was deceitful.
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You are welcome Maggie. I was willing to give Romney slack since the article was confusing, but that is clearly not the case.
 
MaggieD said:
Mithros, I've asked several times on this thread to link me to the more than one time he supposedly said this. And now you say he made an ad around it. Could you please link me to these things? Chrysler said the Bloomberg article was misleading. I posted their letter earlier in this thread. I'm willing to admit that Romney LIED if anyone can show me that, after he was corrected, he kept on saying it. (Blogs all over the internet were also saying Chrysler was moving out their Jeep production; that, combined with the confusing Bloomberg story, sure makes this seem like a mistake. Got any links to support your assertions?
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Here ya go.

Romney's Initial Claim: 10/25 ABC Toledo: Auto Workers Slam Romney's False Jeep Claim - YouTube
Romney's Ad 10/27: Romney's False New Ad's A Sure Sign He Knows He's In Trouble In Ohio - YouTube

Romney's campaign response.
Romney Camp Defends Auto Bailout Ad
 
Mithros said:
Here ya go.

Romney's Initial Claim: 10/25 ABC Toledo: Auto Workers Slam Romney's False Jeep Claim - YouTube
Romney's Ad 10/27: Romney's False New Ad's A Sure Sign He Knows He's In Trouble In Ohio - YouTube

Romney's campaign response.
Romney Camp Defends Auto Bailout Ad
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The campaign's defense: The ad is literally true, whatever its implications.
"What's in there that's false? Are they building Jeeps in China or not?" an aide asked BuzzFeed, breaking the campaign's silence on the ad. "I think a lot of Ohioans are wondering why we can't make Jeeps here and ship them to China, just like they are wondering why we can't make — insert product here — in this country and export them to China."
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Why can't politicians just say, "Yes, we misinterpretted the article. We're going to pull the ad." Deceitful.
 
Is this ringing bells with anyone else? Romney seems to have the belief that it's perfectly okay to be absolutely deceptive, just so long as you couch your misleading claims in terms that aren't absolute lies. I'm getting sickening flasbacks to the Bush administration's constant attempts to tie Saddam to 911. They were clever enough to never come straight out and say it, but as a result of their propoganda campaign a huge number of Americans came to believe that 911 was perpetrated by the Iraqis.
 
MaggieD said:
Why can't politicians just say, "Yes, we misinterpretted the article. We're going to pull the ad." Deceitful.
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I think most would. Especially when you read this article:
Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises - Bloomberg

It clearly says that Jeep output for China is being moved to china, but the rest of the article is kind of unclear and poorly written. It's an easy mistake to make.

But Romney's not that type of guy. Romney may be a lot of good things, generous, good family man etc... but he's not the type of person to admit a mistake..ever. Instead he'll say that he was right all along and that you should stop lying about that position he says he took. That's pretty bipartisan criticism.
 
Mithros said:
I think most would. Especially when you read this article:
Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises - Bloomberg

It clearly says that Jeep output for China is being moved to china, but the rest of the article is kind of unclear and poorly written. It's an easy mistake to make.

But Romney's not that type of guy. Romney may be a lot of good things, generous, good family man etc... but he's not the type of person to admit a mistake..ever. Instead he'll say that he was right all along and that you should stop lying about that position he says he took. That's pretty bipartisan criticism.
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I don't believe for a minute that Romney believed what he was saying. He isn't stupid and he's more than capable of parsing a business article that frankly isn't all that confusing.
 
AdamT said:
I don't believe for a minute that Romney believed what he was saying. He isn't stupid and he's more than capable of parsing a business article that frankly isn't all that confusing.
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Let me ask you a question and if you can, set aside your clownery for 2 seconds and see if you can answer

Even if demand was up in China, why would Jeep need to build factories over there to cover that demand? Why can't they build those factories here and build those cars to be shipped off to China? Think of all the economic activity surrounding those cars that are going to built, from auto part manufacturing to shipping, ect.

What is stopping them?

Here's an Obama Campaign ad:

Since When - Obama for America TV Ad - YouTube

Obama is the one who bailed out the Car Companies. 7 out of 10 GM cars are made in China now. And it turns out there is a new rumor. Jeep may move all it's manufacturing to Italy. FIAT owns Jeep now. An Italian Company so this wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.

Instead of trying to run around objectifying people as objects, try and use some critical thinking skills for 2 seconds and tell me the benefit to US auto workers and parts manufacturers who employ people here to build those parts get when Jeep builds factories over in China? Auto Part manufacturing jobs are down 40% over the last decade.
 
AdamT said:
I don't believe for a minute that Romney believed what he was saying. He isn't stupid and he's more than capable of parsing a business article that frankly isn't all that confusing.
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Oh, I totally agree. I'm just saying that given the article, it would be pretty easy to pull back the statement and say that it was a simple mistake. But that's not the way Romney works.
 
Bronson said:
Let me ask you a question and if you can, set aside your clownery for 2 seconds and see if you can answer

Even if demand was up in China, why would Jeep need to build factories over there to cover that demand?
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Obviously the answer is that it's cheaper to build them there for the Chinese market. It won't benefit Chrysler's US workers if the company does stupid **** that causes it to fail again.
 
Bronson said:
Let me ask you a question and if you can, set aside your clownery for 2 seconds and see if you can answer

Even if demand was up in China, why would Jeep need to build factories over there to cover that demand? Why can't they build those factories here and build those cars to be shipped off to China? Think of all the economic activity surrounding those cars that are going to built, from auto part manufacturing to shipping, ect.

What is stopping them?

Here's an Obama Campaign ad:

Since When - Obama for America TV Ad - YouTube

Obama is the one who bailed out the Car Companies. 7 out of 10 GM cars are made in China now. And it turns out there is a new rumor. Jeep may move all it's manufacturing to Italy. FIAT owns Jeep now. An Italian Company so this wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.

Instead of trying to run around objectifying people as objects, try and use some critical thinking skills for 2 seconds and tell me the benefit to US auto workers and parts manufacturers who employ people here to build those parts get when Jeep builds factories over in China? Auto Part manufacturing jobs are down 40% over the last decade.
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Deflect! Deflect!
 
Mithros said:
I think most would. Especially when you read this article:
Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises - Bloomberg

It clearly says that Jeep output for China is being moved to china, but the rest of the article is kind of unclear and poorly written. It's an easy mistake to make.

But Romney's not that type of guy. Romney may be a lot of good things, generous, good family man etc... but he's not the type of person to admit a mistake..ever. Instead he'll say that he was right all along and that you should stop lying about that position he says he took. That's pretty bipartisan criticism.
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I am sorry, but when has Obama ever done this? Has the DNC ever apologized or corrected themselves for all the Bain-related claims that have been lobbed when Romney was off saving the Olympics full-time and supporting his very sick wife when a lot of those transactions took place? This is politics.
 
Fisher said:
I am sorry, but when has Obama ever done this? Has the DNC ever apologized or corrected themselves for all the Bain-related claims that have been lobbed when Romney was off saving the Olympics full-time and supporting his very sick wife when a lot of those transactions took place? This is politics.
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and how is this (wrong) claim relevant to this thread?

on topic
Detroit Free Press
Mitt Romney's campaign has released an ad in Ohio ... In the ad, the Romney campaign also says that Jeep, now owned by Italian automaker Fiat after going through a structured bankruptcy in 2009, is going to make cars in China.

Not only was the story wrong, Romney took criticism for not knowing better and repeating it without questioning it.

On Thursday, the Free Press reported that 1,100 new workers will begin making the Jeep Grand Cherokee in Detroit this week to boost production. In addition, Chrysler is in the process of investing $500 million at a Jeep plant in Toledo and will hire an additional 1,105 workers there. It was not known whether the new ad was an attempt to capitalize on the incorrect story, or when and where the ad might run again.
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National Journal
Republican nominee Mitt Romney is running a new TV ad that implies Chrysler is planning to move U.S. auto jobs to China, though that is not the case.

Romney provoked an outcry after he told a crowd in Defiance, Ohio on Thursday: “I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China. I will fight for every good job in America.”

The story, by Bloomberg News, starts out in a confusing manner by saying that Fiat, the majority owner of Chrysler, "plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country."

The piece goes on to say, however, that Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio, and any production sites in China would be new ones making cars for Chinese buyers.
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Chrysler corporate blog
Let’s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China. It’s simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world’s largest auto market. U.S. Jeep assembly lines will continue to stay in operation. A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments.
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MaggieD said:
This wasn't a lie. It was a monumental gaff.
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If it was a gaff, then the ROmney camp would have come out with a retraction. They didn't This leads me to believe Romney intended to misrepresent the information.
 
Somerville said:
and how is this (wrong) claim relevant to this thread?
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I can see how truth might be off-topic to this thread. Responding to a post is as "relevant" to the 50 million posts on this site where you folks flood the Benghazi threads with race/obamacare crap. If you own the site, ban me, otherwise, bite me. :2wave:
 
Chrysler may not be going to China, but it looks like Fiat is considering moving production to Italy.

"To counter the severe slump in European sales, (Fiat CEO Sergio) Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said."

AUTO BAILOUT BOMBSHELL: Fiat Says Chrysler, Jeep Production May Move to Italy | National Legal and Policy Center


Marchionne Seen Missing Fiat Sales Target by $19 Billion - Businessweek
 
wolfman24 said:
It is another example whether lie or gaff of Romney or his people not checking the facts or their sources to verify the story and going ahead and letting more crap come out of their mouths. I just don't understand why the general public isn't getting this. Maybe its because they don't care or don't want to know. Very sad state of affairs
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Compare this to the LIbya story......is there really a comparison?

But of course, you liberals are all up in arms over a "gaffe" like this, but say nothing about the proven "lies" the Obama administration has told about Libya.....

What is a sad state of affairs is how both sides ignore things because of partisanship. Especially on important issues that should matter to ALL Americans.
 
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