IMPORTANT: A message for those who support 3rd party candidates

First, it's pains me to say this, but it's the unfortunate reality of politics in America... Barring the winner of the next election dying before being sworn in, the absolute reality is, that on inauguration day this January there are only 2 possible outcomes.. Either Barack Obama will be sworn in for a second term as President of the United States, or Mitt Romney will be sworn in and become America's 45th President. That's it folks... There is nothing anyone can say or do to change that reality... NOTHING.

On election day, I know from experience that there is nothing more righteous, or more honorable, than going to the polls and casting a vote of principal and conscience, for the candidate you truly believe in your heart, is the best and most qualified person to be President of the United States. I admire those who stand by their principals by voting for the person they truly believe in. It's a noble thing to do.

Unfortunately though, for a small but growing segment of Americans that do this in support of a 3rd party candidate, it comes at a cost. In doing so, a person surrenders their influence and effectively has no say in who will lead the country. In reality, it means that their votes truly won't count, and their efforts end up contributing absolutely nothing to the process of electing a president. Understandably, that's a price they are more than willing to pay for standing by their convictions and beliefs, but there's another very important cost that I hope you all will give serious consideration to before you vote... It's what it could cost the country and every single one of us, if the wrong person wins the election.

In a perfect world, a person should always cast their vote for the person they feel is best for the job without exception... But the world, including this country, are far from perfect and given how close we find ourselves to the edge of that ever looming financial cliff that we're currently on, it wouldn't take many steps in the wrong direction for us to go over the edge. I truly believe for the first time in my life, that a real potential exists, that the American economy could collapse due to mistakes, errors in judgment, or incorrect actions possibly taken by our president in the coming 4 years.

Understand, I'm not saying this will happen, nor do I believe it's likely to happen, I just believe that the possibility of the economy tanking due to presidential mis-steps now exists, which for me raises the importance of who we elect. If you believe as I do, that the country is in trouble, and how the economy is handled over the next 4 years is of great importance, I strongly urge you to take part in deciding which candidate would serve the country's best interests, by casting a vote that's capable of effecting the outcome of the coming election.

Even if you can't stand Barack Obama or Mitt Romney and believe that electing either would be a disaster, for the sake of the country, I hope you will hold your nose and cast your vote for the one you believe to be the better choice of the two... Because casting a vote for anyone else, is no different than if you had just stayed home, and this election is far to important to do that.

There's a lot riding on this election, so I really hope that those of you who had planned to vote for a 3rd party candidate, would please reconsider that decision... There's just too much to lose here.

Thanks.

The only votes wasted are by those who do not vote.

Those voting 3rd party may not have a prayer in getting their guy elected but who are we to say because of this they should vote Romney or Obama.....if one of those guys are unable to win without the 3rd party voters then they don't deserve the win.

I smell desperation!

Seriously, if people want third parties to become relevant, they have to vote for those candidates. I understand why you want people to sell out their values, but it still is pretty ****ty to ask them to do it.

Redress said:

I smell desperation!

Seriously, if people want third parties to become relevant, they have to vote for those candidates. I understand why you want people to sell out their values, but it still is pretty ****ty to ask them to do it.

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I live in louisiana. If i want to vote third party, it won't make a difference. Romney will still win it. That's why I most likely am going to just to give them an extra vote.

My 3rd party vote is an important message to the establishment chosen winner. Maybe it will be heard, maybe it won't but I feel that speaking up is the ONLY way to be heard.

This is the first time I've held both candidates in equal disrespect albeit for different reasons. Whoever wins the prize, the rest of us will lose.

Grim17 said:

First, it's pains me to say this, but it's the unfortunate reality of politics in America... Barring the winner of the next election dying before being sworn in, the absolute reality is, that on inauguration day this January there are only 2 possible outcomes.. Either Barack Obama will be sworn in for a second term as President of the United States, or Mitt Romney will be sworn in and become America's 45th President. That's it folks... There is nothing anyone can say or do to change that reality... NOTHING.

On election day, I know from experience that there is nothing more righteous, or more honorable, than going to the polls and casting a vote of principal and conscience, for the candidate you truly believe in your heart, is the best and most qualified person to be President of the United States. I admire those who stand by their principals by voting for the person they truly believe in. It's a noble thing to do.

Unfortunately though, for a small but growing segment of Americans that do this in support of a 3rd party candidate, it comes at a cost. In doing so, a person surrenders their influence and effectively has no say in who will lead the country. In reality, it means that their votes truly won't count, and their efforts end up contributing absolutely nothing to the process of electing a president. Understandably, that's a price they are more than willing to pay for standing by their convictions and beliefs, but there's another very important cost that I hope you all will give serious consideration to before you vote... It's what it could cost the country and every single one of us, if the wrong person wins the election.

In a perfect world, a person should always cast their vote for the person they feel is best for the job without exception... But the world, including this country, are far from perfect and given how close we find ourselves to the edge of that ever looming financial cliff that we're currently on, it wouldn't take many steps in the wrong direction for us to go over the edge. I truly believe for the first time in my life, that a real potential exists, that the American economy could collapse due to mistakes, errors in judgment, or incorrect actions possibly taken by our president in the coming 4 years.

Understand, I'm not saying this will happen, nor do I believe it's likely to happen, I just believe that the possibility of the economy tanking due to presidential mis-steps now exists, which for me raises the importance of who we elect. If you believe as I do, that the country is in trouble, and how the economy is handled over the next 4 years is of great importance, I strongly urge you to take part in deciding which candidate would serve the country's best interests, by casting a vote that's capable of effecting the outcome of the coming election.

Even if you can't stand Barack Obama or Mitt Romney and believe that electing either would be a disaster, for the sake of the country, I hope you will hold your nose and cast your vote for the one you believe to be the better choice of the two... Because casting a vote for anyone else, is no different than if you had just stayed home, and this election is far to important to do that.

There's a lot riding on this election, so I really hope that those of you who had planned to vote for a 3rd party candidate, would please reconsider that decision... There's just too much to lose here.

Thanks.

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In other words folks, vote for the candidates that Grim has prechosen for you.

poweRob said:

In other words folks, vote for the candidates that Grim has prechosen for you.

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Yup, that's what he said. :roll:

American said:

Yup, that's what he said. :roll:

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He sure did.

The only way for a third party to ever win is to destroy the electoral system as it exists.

Good luck with that. I'm with ya in spirit.

Many years ago back in Canada I chastised one of my sisters for voting 3rd party and said it was a wasted voted on a party that had no chance to win over the 2 primary parties....that 3rd party is now one of the major political parties in Canada......chances are this will never happen here in the US but all it would take is enough people fed up with the Dems and Reps to make a 3 party electable.

redress said:

i smell desperation!

Seriously, if people want third parties to become relevant, they have to vote for those candidates. I understand why you want people to sell out their values, but it still is pretty ****ty to ask them to do it.

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that must be the trail of desperation the president is leaving behind as he continually devalues the office by doing the late night talk show circuit, and hops around on air force one to as many states as he can at the moment, since he smells defeat...

Helix's important message for those who support third party candidates :

vote for the candidate that you support even if that candidate is not a member of the duopoly.

thanks, and happy voting.

I will allow others to speak for me, and my 3rd party vote;

Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death. ... smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. - Thomas Paine

An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot. - Thomas Paine

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A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Important principles may, and must, be inflexible. - Abraham Lincoln

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Hi Grim. I'm one of the independent voters you referred to. Interestingly enough, I wrote an opinion editorial to my newspaper about this very subject:

I'm writing this letter to address a falsehood that has been indoctrinated into our political culture which must be corrected. This is the preposterous claim that voting independent is “throwing your vote away”, or to an even greater extreme that “a vote for an independent is a vote for Barak Obama”.
As an independent conservative voter, I'm constantly shocked to see the disrespectful attacks on my political views for not voting for a major party, and the reason for this treatment is as obvious as it is immature. In this election, we have a Democrat incumbent and a Republican nominee. Thus, many Republicans are trumpeting the aforementioned lines (if the roles were reversed, the same claims and disrespect would be occurring by the Democrats). In this 2012 election, the specific Republicans who so adamantly attack us independent conservatives are merely pouting because they can't have every single conservative vote. Their tantrums reveal they have no respect for diversity in viewing issues. Here are the problems with this all too prevalent mindset.

First off, it's an established fact that voting independent isn't throwing your vote away because numbers matter. Third party candidates use these numbers to decide if they will run again the future. The goal of voting should be giving honest feedback to the government which best represents our views, not conforming as a union just to get results. If you are one who complains about the political culture in Washington, (personal agendas, corruption, and money trumping the will of the people) but still vote major party, you have no right to expect anything to change in those areas, and they won't.

A common theme I notice among Republicans is the “lesser of two evils” argument. These people usually have a laundry list of concerns about Mitt Romney, but feel they must conform to vote against Barak Obama. The problem is, voting is an all-in situation. Regardless of your issues with Romney or the Republican Party, this laundry list will never be seen. Do you know what will be seen? Your vote for Mitt Romney, and your 100% support for him. To them, your vote is saying “You guys are doing a great job, keep it up!” Trust me, I know there is no perfect candidate, and we all compromise at some levels, but the question is, to what extent? To these folk I ask, how can you admit both parties are severely corrupt and then go and vote for one of them?

Oddly enough, independent conservatives are constantly charged with not being conservatives at all. A major contributor to this anomaly is that somehow, the term “conservative” has become interchangeable with the term “Republican”, when in fact, Republicans aren't nearly conservative enough for myself and many others. Romney won't come close to balancing the budget, he won't take drastic enough steps to cut bloated government programs, and he won't significantly bolster the idea of state's rights. Republicans will say that Romney is better than Obama in spending, and while that may technically be true, what good is being merely a tad bit better than Obama? We need drastic changes, ones that are outside of the comfortable political realm. That's why folks like Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are ostracized in the major media. They make the current political universe, now dominated by two major parties, uncomfortable. With everyone so willing to admit the culture of corruption in Washington these days, you would think that a shake-up would be welcomed with open arms, but instead its maliciously attacked.

We independent conservatives are also peer pressured with fear tactics that our country is doomed if Obama is reelected. However, the story of the boy who cried wolf certainly applies here. Even if the Democrat candidate were extremely moderate, we would be told the same story of how we conservatives must conform “just this one time” with Republicans to save our country (and no doubt the Democrats would do the same against a Republican incumbent). So why should we independents bother to believe it? We shouldn't, and I certainly don't.

I can say, as an independent conservative, that I would prefer Mitt Romney over Barak Obama in the upcoming election, but voting for Mitt Romney would compromise my values far too much. As a Christian, I can't support Romney's support of torture policies or his fragile abortion stance, and his economic policies aren't nearly conservative enough. Therefore, I'm proud to say I vote independent, and I encourage all of you fellow independents to not be persuaded by the tactics of the major parties. I also respectfully ask those out there who feel they must vote Republican for the lesser of two evils to simply ask themselves what the purpose of voting is. It's a sad state of affairs when we must completely compromise ourselves just to vote against someone. I say be proud of your values and stand up for yourself.

Grim17 said:

Even if you can't stand Barack Obama or Mitt Romney and believe that electing either would be a disaster, for the sake of the country, I hope you will hold your nose and cast your vote for the one you believe to be the better choice of the two... Because casting a vote for anyone else, is no different than if you had just stayed home, and this election is far to important to do that.

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lol - I have integrity and character and wish to remain that way. Judge me all you want.

There's a lot riding on this election, so I really hope that those of you who had planned to vote for a 3rd party candidate, would please reconsider that decision... There's just too much to lose here.

Thanks.

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Like what? Who will get us to complete socialism first? Who will start or sustain more wars? Who will increase taxes on all of us? Who will continue or increase drones and monitor us like dogs? Who will continue to ignore our 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendments?

Nah, I believe you are in denial my friend if you think *anything* will change January of next year regardless who 'wins'. At least I am practicing what I preach.
I'll have the bumper sticker saying not to blame me.

Gipper said:

The only way for a third party to ever win is to destroy the electoral system as it exists.

Good luck with that. I'm with ya in spirit.

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You don't have to win the whitehouse to win as a third party. Third party folk are generally more policy oriented than that partisan voters of the two major parties. THis is shown in how many policies get adopted due to third party runs. Women's Suffrage is one. Abolition was another. Labor rights. These were all third party policies that the two major had to adopt to pick up third party voter support.

When Nader ran in 2004 he wrote an open letter to Kerry on how to win. He said, PLEASE take my votes away. Pick up and talk about these policies, which he listed out, and he said he would pick up votes from Nader's base. This is how third parties work.

powerob said:

When Nader ran in 2004 he wrote an open letter to Kerry on how to win. He said, PLEASE take my votes away.

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Clearly it worked.

Gipper said:

Clearly it worked.

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And Kerry blew him off as well. So... what's ur point?

See Grim, I have made it clear more than once what I think of the third parties here in America. They range from slightly amusing to bat**** insane. I got no use for any of them. None of them represent my values nearly as well as the Democratic party, which I am proud to be a member of.

With that said, I can respect some one who votes their values and not just for some one who might win. Those people are building towards a future in America. Not a future I want, but one I can respectfully disagree with. What I cannot respect is some one who would sell out that future for a short term minor gain. I can respect those people, even if their vote for a third party candidate hurts the chances of my chosen candidate. I am not going to ask people to sell out their vision of America, I am not going to ask people to sell short their values for my gain.

This thread makes me sad, that some one would casually ask people to sell themselves and their vision short, just for a transitory increase for themselves.

I don't think Grim17 was at all disrespectful or unreasonable in his post. He stated his beliefs just as some of your are stating your beliefs that the rest of us are wrong or stupid to vote for Obama or Romney because both suck. I don't know Grim17 and don't recall ever seeing a post of his before today, but I happen to agree with him.

I don't ask anybody to love either Romney or Obama. I fully agree that in many areas the GOP has been just as destructive as the Democrats, but I don't agree that it has been destructive to the same degree. Yes, an unreformed GOP will take us over the cliff the same as the Democrats are doing, but the fact that they are doing it more slowly merits some consideration. At least more slowly gives us time to change courses before everything completely crashes. If you think the GOP is the better choice when the choice is between those two, that is how you should vote. Or if you like the results of the Obama Administration for the past four years, then that is how you should vote.

To throw both lollipops in the dirt because you didn't get the flavor you wanted is not constructive. To choose the better of the two choices you have ensures that you get at least something you want.

I wish we had the choice of a superman with the ability to fix everything. But since we don't, I hope people will vote for the person who has the better instincts, temperament, and motives, plus a chance to win, and therefore is the best chance to help make things better.

poweRob said:

In other words folks, vote for the candidates that Grim has prechosen for you.

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I encourage all democrats to vote their third party candidate. Write in Micky Mouse if you want.

Every time this argument is thrown out there my desire to vote for a 3rd party candidate increases, not decreases.

You cast your vote based on what's important to you, I'll cast mine based on what's important to me, and go from there.

Zyphlin said:

Every time this argument is thrown out there my desire to vote for a 3rd party candidate increases, not decreases.

You cast your vote based on what's important to you, I'll cast mine based on what's important to me, and go from there.

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Ironically, the reason many of us 3rd party voters vote the way we do, is because we feel who we are voting for will not serve us best, but the country as a whole.
No more apparent is this than the effect the top tier candidates have had in the past 50 years on our society.

Born Free said:

I encourage all democrats to vote their third party candidate. Write in Micky Mouse if you want.

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Well, I had great hope for the hope and change Obama campaigned on in 2007 and 2008. That hope has been completely dashed and I share the opinion of millions that another four years of what we have just had would be disastrous.

So, I would encourage all Democrats and third party candidate supporters to at least vote on November 8 when the polls will be much less crowded.

I'm voting 5th party this time. At least I'll have something to kill the pain.