Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help [W:84]

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

marsden said:

Your Messiah has no way out of this and you are still covering his lying third world loving ass. You will cry and moan on Nov. 7th.when you awake and find him out of a job. Then, you will whine and twist as he is made to pay for this outrage. Then, for a looong time afterwards you'll be remembered as one of those silly sycophants who defended the indefensible.

Stand down, AdamT.

Stand down.

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Did you order the code red? Did you?

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Fisher said:

Point to me a single incident where the Secretary of Defense or George W. Bush or Dick Cheney directly ordered the military to not undertake a mission to assist or rescue soldiers under fire when they were ready to do so. Shouldn't be hard since you allege that happens all the time. Unless something is seriously backwards in this Administration, the Secretary of State doesn't give the military orders because it is not her chain of command.

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Point me to a single credible piece of evidence where the Secretary of Defense or Barack Obama or Joe Biden directly ordered the military not to undertake a mission to assist the facilities in Benghazi, and I'll take you up on your offer.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

marsden said:

Your Messiah....

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Stopped reading there.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Taylor said:

You can always tell when Obama has done something indefensible by how quickly "Bush" enters the conversation.

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Interesting point. I feel that you can always tell when conservatives have said something hypocritical by how quickly Bush enters the conversation. And almost always, the response is "oh yes, blame Bush," when in fact, there was no "blaming" being done at all, just comparison.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

AdamT said:

Hah, that's funny. That's what we Democrats were told if we didn't support Bush on Iraq -- the war he mislead the country into that cost the lives of 4,000 Americans and tens of thousands of casualties.

Conservatives truly have no shame.

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The typical strategy of redirecting people to past faults and screw ups to hide the current ones. How many of these things can happen Adam before you at least admit that the Obama administration is not trustworthy? Look at all of the things he and his administration have done in 4 years. Or better yet. Lets compare his screw ups and shady actions to President W Bush's screw ups and shady actions.

9/11/01- Bush continues to read to children after he is told America is under attack
9/11/12- Obama decides to fly to Vegas despite the fact that he is told there is a major attack underway in Libya that has resulted in the death of the Ambassador. In addition, he is told other attacks are imminent.
IMO, and I'm no Dubya fan as you well know, President Obama's actions are much more despicable. President Bush did what he did so he wouldn't frighten children. He was probably in shock as well. EVERY American was when they heard that. No one can say what they would do if they would have heard that as POTUS. No POTUS had ever dealt with something like that. President Obama, on the other hand, made a calculated and selfish decision to continue campaigning. He could have contacted Mitt Romney and asked him to cease his campaign so he could deal with the attacks. Whatever Romney did would have worked in President Obama's favor. Result A) If Gov Romney decided to continue campaigning, Pres Obama could have called him out on it and made him look insensitive. Result B) If Gov Romney suspended his campaign as requested, it would have put the POTUS front and center without competition for airwaves while he dealt with the attack. Instead, Pres Obama chose the worst possible course of action. To leave Hillary Clinton to deal with it.....again.

Valeria Plame Affair- Bush Administration leaks covert operatives name to the press in an alleged attempt at retribution towards her husband who wrote a scathing op-ed against the Bush Administration. Yeah, this is bad. It's a leak revealing a covert CIA operative who is under cover at the time. I'm not defending this at all. However.......
OBL Operation details/Al Qaeda double agents/Al Qaeda kill or capture lists and how they're made/Stuxnet cyberweapon-Yeah, lose one operative, it hurts her particular operations. When you give away broad, sweeping details and tactics such as the ones given away in all of the cases above, you're putting a lot of people in danger. I'm not alleging this was done for political gain. I don't know that. What I do know is that all of this stuff made it to the press and Pres Obama has even acknowledged it's a problem.

So called torture of detainees: We all know this story
Personally approving of UAV strikes: Is this really better? At least you get info from waterboarding guys. UAV strikes on alleged Al Qaeda operatives in the midst of civilians is far worse IMO. It has been published that there is an "acceptable level" of civilian deaths when these strikes are being considered.

I could keep going and going. For every controversy or scandal Pres Bush had in his 8 years, there is an equally disturbing one in the 4 years of Pres Obama.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Jonsa said:

Could that be because its yet another fox "exclusive" not naming names with no ability to actually verify that they are reporting facts. And we all know they always get it right.

for instance, who gave the standdown order? why was it given? In standing down, does that mean get in the safe room and lay low?
Bits an pieces of a story do not the whole tale tell. But its more than enough for political accusations and muckracking.

I wonder why this info is not being uncovered in the investigations taking place? Or if they are,

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According to military protocol, because this was a Flash Cable about a "missing" US Ambassador, the POTUS would have to make the call. Understand something, a US Ambassador has a priority equal to 4 stars. Meaning, that if a Flash Cable comes to the White House situation room about a "missing" US Ambassador, a LIVE PERSON must WALK the information to the highest person nearest the President, and verify delivery. So there's no way Obama didn't know about this attack right away.

Also, records show that Obama had an Oval Office meeting just 50 minutes into the attack with Leon Panetta and Hillary Clinton. The decision would have been made, or in this case, not made, in that meeting. You have the 3 Principles in the room. You have the POTUS, you have the Sec. of State, and you have the Sec. of Defense all in the same room together just 50 minutes after the attack started in Benghazi.

Now, what do you think they were discussing? Halloween costumes?

Flash Cables aren't emails. They are like IM's directly to the situation room in the White House and relating Operation Posts for the geographical area. There's no way to argue that Obama didn't know what was happening, because it involved a 4 star level US Ambassador. The Cables, by protocol, must be WALKED IN PERSON to the POTUS directly, or the highest person nearest the POTUS, and a confirmation of delivery MUST be posted. In short, there is a system in place for situations like this to ensure that the POTUS is informed as quickly as possible.

The story being advanced by many in the administration, including Joe Biden himself, is that Obama wasn't told anything. Remember when Biden said in the VP debate, "we weren't told anything", and "we didn't know anything"? Remember when he said that? That's a lie outright.

Time to face the music liberals, your boy is cooked.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

AdamT said:

Point me to a single credible piece of evidence where the Secretary of Defense or Barack Obama or Joe Biden directly ordered the military not to undertake a mission to assist the facilities in Benghazi, and I'll take you up on your offer.

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Open your damn eyes. The military told Wood's father that they were ordered not to help. You are backtracking out of your partisan lies but this time I am holding your feet to the fire. This has nothing to do with democrat v. republican or left v. right or liberal v. conservative or protests v. AQ. People DIED and the military is pointing fingers at the WH to the next of kin of the relatives saying they let it happen. You simply cannot play politics with the lives of people under fire and then hide.

You are the one who brought Bush into this so either put up or lose all credibility on this issue. The Secretary of State cannot give that order. It had to come down through the military chain of command to either authorize or deny the request to assist and the military is telling the families they were denied. Little disgruntled people whose ranks begin with a E are not going to be the ones telling the families this. I don't care if it was the President, the SecDef, or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, but somebody gave the order not to assist and surviving Nov 6 isn't going to make this go away. Someone's head is going to roll over this because it is not about partisan politics--it is about politicians abandoning Americans to die without even trying to help when that should have been something anyone who calls themselves a leader would have greenlit in a blink of an eye regardless of what party they belong to Anyone who cannot see that is so twisted in politics that the are completely F'ed in the head.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

AdamT said:

Stopped reading there.

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No need to state the obvious Adam.....we've known for quite some time you are no fan of reading.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

AdamT said:

Point me to a single credible piece of evidence where the Secretary of Defense or Barack Obama or Joe Biden directly ordered the military not to undertake a mission to assist the facilities in Benghazi, and I'll take you up on your offer.

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Read my second to last post Adam.....learn something.....

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

I'm reposting for Adam, in a daring attempt to educate him:

According to military protocol, because this was a Flash Cable about a "missing" US Ambassador, the POTUS would have to make the call. Understand something, a US Ambassador has a priority equal to 4 stars. Meaning, that if a Flash Cable comes to the White House situation room about a "missing" US Ambassador, a LIVE PERSON must WALK the information to the highest person nearest the President, and verify delivery. So there's no way Obama didn't know about this attack right away.

Also, records show that Obama had an Oval Office meeting just 50 minutes into the attack with Leon Panetta and Hillary Clinton. The decision would have been made, or in this case, not made, in that meeting. You have the 3 Principles in the room. You have the POTUS, you have the Sec. of State, and you have the Sec. of Defense all in the same room together just 50 minutes after the attack started in Benghazi.

Now, what do you think they were discussing? Halloween costumes?

Flash Cables aren't emails. They are like IM's directly to the situation room in the White House and relating Operation Posts for the geographical area. There's no way to argue that Obama didn't know what was happening, because it involved a 4 star level US Ambassador. The Cables, by protocol, must be WALKED IN PERSON to the POTUS directly, or the highest person nearest the POTUS, and a confirmation of delivery MUST be posted. In short, there is a system in place for situations like this to ensure that the POTUS is informed as quickly as possible.

The story being advanced by many in the administration, including Joe Biden himself, is that Obama wasn't told anything. Remember when Biden said in the VP debate, "we weren't told anything", and "we didn't know anything"? Remember when he said that? That's a lie outright.

Time to face the music liberals, your boy is cooked.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

The usual unnamed sources attack by Fox News and people on the right.... pathetic.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Lutherf said:

When it came out that the circumstances of Pat Tillman's death had been manipulated the media couldn't get enough of it yet in this circumstance....

When a soldier is killed by friendly fire and the story is manipulated to make him out to be a hero for political reasons that's a bad thing. When 4 Americans are killed and the story is that not only did they not receive timely assistance but that the requests for assistance were denied for political reasons that's treason.

This refusal to act in the interests of our people should be a great big wake up call for all Americans. Who else is this administration willing to let die for the sole purpose of advancing their ideology? Will they let Americans die in the street so that they have a political martyr to hang their ideology on?

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This is the reality that the left doesn't want to cope with. I don't think the left can get away with killin Americans in the streets though. But this is the kind of pansy overseas game playing that has given people the impression that America is gutless and weak.

You are so very right about Pat Tillman. Regardless of being killed by friendly fire, he was a hero. Stepping away from a pro-career for military service is incredible in terms of character. That alone makes him a great man. I can understand why the media would be all over the cover up too. The cover up is ALWAYS worse.

Of course the left doesn't understand how ridiculous our media is when they totally avoid this issue. The Bengazi incident is a TRAVESTY. ALLOWING an American Consolate to be stormed and having people killed on September 11th of ALL dates...is a bad joke. Denying assistance to American citizens is a horrific.

This isn't about denying help on a tough call. It is possible that these men were unsavable. I would certainly understand that kind of call. But I don't think I believe that. That would have been some of the first words out about the incident. At least it should have been if that were the case. And if it WAS the case:

I think this could have been prevented had we had a detachment of Marines at the Consolate like we are supposed too. Sure 2 were shot in route....but a small well armed MSG force on the inside with Automatic weapons? PLEASE. "Protestors" can't hold up to accurate automatic weapons fire from trained soldiers. This was a botched scheme all the way around. You PROTECT your people overseas. It doesn't matter if you trust the country in. You still provide adequate in-house security for your people. I thought we learned this during the Carter Adminstration?

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Adam, I just explained the protocol to you and how it works. I hope you read it, because it exposes the truth.

Just 50 minutes into the attack, Obama had an Oval Office meeting with Panetta, and Clinton. The Flash Cable, which said the US Ambassador was "missing", would have, BY PROTOCOL, been hand delivered either to Obama personally, or to the highest official NEAREST Obama at the time. In addition, the person who delivers that Flash Cable, MUST, BY PROTOCOL, confirm the delivery of that Flash Cable. This is what we call a "system". There's a system in place to ensure that the POTUS knows what is going on as soon as possible, because he is the person who would make a quick decision concerning a 4 star level US Ambassador.

Understand Adam? Now you know why this is a big deal? People who know of these "systems" and "protocols" understand that there is no way Obama wasn't informed about the situation immediately. There's simply no way. That's why the systems are in place.

So, now you might start understanding just how deep the lies are running in this administration. It's deep Adam, and although I'm pretty political, this issue isn't political, it's about the derilection of duty as Commander in Chief.

There is a military STANDING ORDER, which is to aid and assist in the protection of lives. That's a STANDING ORDER Adam. Military commanders could have sent reinforcements into Benghazi without the approval of the President. But none were sent, which means that a "stand down" order would have to trump the STANDING order. Understand this Adam. A command from POTUS trumps a STANDING ORDER. We know what happened, no troops or reinforcements were sent, meaning ONE THING. A "stand down" order must have been issued by POTUS.

Your goose my friend......is cooked.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Fisher said:

Open your damn eyes. The military told Wood's father that they were ordered not to help. You are backtracking out of your partisan lies but this time I am holding your feet to the fire. This has nothing to do with democrat v. republican or left v. right or liberal v. conservative or protests v. AQ. People DIED and the military is pointing fingers at the WH to the next of kin of the relatives saying they let it happen. You simply cannot play politics with the lives of people under fire and then hide.

You are the one who brought Bush into this so either put up or lose all credibility on this issue. The Secretary of State cannot give that order. It had to come down through the military chain of command to either authorize or deny the request to assist and the military is telling the families they were denied. Little disgruntled people whose ranks begin with a E are not going to be the ones telling the families this. I don't care if it was the President, the SecDef, or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, but somebody gave the order not to assist and surviving Nov 6 isn't going to make this go away. Someone's head is going to roll over this because it is not about partisan politics--it is about politicians abandoning Americans to die without even trying to help when that should have been something anyone who calls themselves a leader would have greenlit in a blink of an eye regardless of what party they belong to Anyone who cannot see that is so twisted in politics that the are completely F'ed in the head.

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Exactly. I don't give a damn about the partisan stuff; this is about four Americans who died and whose country failed to protect them. Those two former SEALS are heroes: Despite being ordered to "stand down," they did the right thing.

Now let's see the President do the right thing too, even though it's too little/too late, because the buck stops with him. Let's learn all the facts and let the truth-chips fall where they may.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Fisher said:

Open your damn eyes. The military told Wood's father that they were ordered not to help. You are backtracking out of your partisan lies but this time I am holding your feet to the fire.

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Dude, you challenged me to come up with an example where the SecDef, Bush, or Biden gave the order, and now you're getting all pissy because I'm asking you to live up to your own standard? Get a grip.

Again, you are ASS * U * ming that whoever gave the order, assuming there was one, made the wrong call. You have no basis to make that judgment. Nor do I have any basis to defend it. But I think it's safe to say that they didn't make the decision just because they didn't like the ambassador, or because they were running guns to the Martians, or whatever the **** the wingnut conspiracy of the hour is.

It may turn out to have been the wrong decision, but I'm pretty sure that there must have been SOME reason for it. So stop going off half cocked and wait for the investigators to do their job. Or is it really just about the election?

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

AdamT said:

Dude, you challenged me to come up with an example where the SecDef, Bush, or Biden gave the order, and now you're getting all pissy because I'm asking you to live up to your own standard? Get a grip.

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Gotta say one thing about you Adam. You are resilient. You get swatted down like 50 times a day in here, and you continue to come on back. You are the poster child for "glutton for punishment".

If Obama said 2+2 was 5, Adam would be the lone liberal here defending it.....

kudos for that Adam

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Blue_State said:

There are other articles out there, but they are all citing fox.

Not sure I want CIA operatives named who are overseas...but I get what you are saying.

The amount of information is perfect for political accusations, if we had the whole picture, I am sure we would move on by now.

The info may in fact be in the act of uncovered, but we wont know until the investigation concludes and a report is released. We may not even know then.

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I think we can assume that somebody in the chain of command failed to make the gutsy call to send in a gunship to at least disperse the attackers. We can also assume that a circumstance such as this would have been seen by everyone in that chain of command as urgent and the news of the attack would have quickly reached the highest levels of the chain of command.

So, while we excoriate the administration for their failure to act in a timely and effective way to save those four souls, there is also blame to be shared by Generals or Admirals closer to the scene who put their careers ahead of these people's lives. SOMEBODY should have issued the order to try to assist them if that order wasn't forthcoming from Washington.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

AdamT said:

Dude, you challenged me to come up with an example where the SecDef, Bush, or Biden gave the order, and now you're getting all pissy because I'm asking you to live up to your own standard? Get a grip.

Again, you are ASS * U * ming that whoever gave the order, assuming there was one, made the wrong call. You have no basis to make that judgment. Nor do I have any basis to defend it. But I think it's safe to say that they didn't make the decision just because they didn't like the ambassador, or because they were running guns to the Martians, or whatever the **** the wingnut conspiracy of the hour is.

It may turn out to have been the wrong decision, but I'm pretty sure that there must have been SOME reason for it. So stop going off half cocked and wait for the investigators to do their job. Or is it really just about the election?

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It's not at all about the election for me; it's about an incomprehensible catastrophe that shouldn't have happened and that continues to be dissembled about.

And the buck does stop with the President. Not with the Sec/Def or Sec/State, with the President. I want the President, even though it's too little/too late, to tell the truth to the American people and to the families of those who died. I want to know why the Ambassador asked for help and was denied. I want to know why Ambassador Rice was sent out to five--count them, FIVE--Sunday political analysis shows to spin the facts.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

marsden said:

I think we can assume.... We can also assume....

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There you go.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Father of Slain Benghazi SEAL Blames Obama Adminstration: "They Murdered My Son" - YouTube

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

nota bene said:

It's not at all about the election for me; it's about an incomprehensible catastrophe that shouldn't have happened and that continues to be dissembled about.

And the buck does stop with the President. Not with the Sec/Def or Sec/State, with the President. I want the President, even though it's too little/too late, to tell the truth to the American people and to the families of those who died. I want to know why the Ambassador asked for help and was denied. I want to know why Ambassador Rice was sent out to five--count them, FIVE--Sunday political analysis shows to spin the facts.

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And I'm sure you get all that information, to the extent that it doesn't jeopardize intelligence assets, just as soon as they finish the investigation. Meanwhile, you are not entitled to be copied on DoD and CIA reports of the investigation. You do understand that, right?

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

Bronson said:

Obama lied to these families

Obama trotted out a private citizen who made a youtube video WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS in front of the world, arrested him, and blamed him at the UN General Assembly. He had more security than those Americans who were raped and murdered in Benghazi

If you still support Barack Obama after this you are not an American

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I've said all along that I will be voting for Obama, but I certainly agree that this story would seem to indicate that there were considerable mistakes made in Benghazi and the events from that day forth appear to indicate an attempted coverup. We have the right to make assumptions regarding the embassy attack, but portraying it as a litmus test for voters is absurd.

The premise of your argument is that letting Americans die is unacceptable. You conclude that any president who lets Americans die isn't worthy of our votes. Well, what about Americans who are dying because they don't have access to health care? Taking into consideration Romney's stance on health care (his current stance, not his old stance), does voting for him make you un-American?

The question in this election isn't whether or not the embassy in Benghazi could have been protected in time to save the lives of our ambassadors. The question is which administration will endorse the policies and programs that make this great nation greater? I am going to vote for Obama, thrown down on the ultra official party that will take place after Obama wins, and come the next morning I will drink my Powerade and stand with everybody else who wants to know why our ambassadors weren't protected, see what we could have done differently, and make sure it never happens again.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

nota bene said:

Exactly. I don't give a damn about the partisan stuff; this is about four Americans who died and whose country failed to protect them. Those two former SEALS are heroes: Despite being ordered to "stand down," they did the right thing.

Now let's see the President do the right thing too, even though it's too little/too late, because the buck stops with him. Let's learn all the facts and let the truth-chips fall where they may.

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They are, indeed, heroes. They disobeyed direct orders to stand down before deciding to try to save the Ambassador. They had to have known the odds were long against their getting out alive.

THAT is heroism.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

MarineTpartier said:

The typical strategy of redirecting people to past faults and screw ups to hide the current ones. How many of these things can happen Adam before you at least admit that the Obama administration is not trustworthy? Look at all of the things he and his administration have done in 4 years. Or better yet. Lets compare his screw ups and shady actions to President W Bush's screw ups and shady actions.

9/11/01- Bush continues to read to children after he is told America is under attack
9/11/12- Obama decides to fly to Vegas despite the fact that he is told there is a major attack underway in Libya that has resulted in the death of the Ambassador. In addition, he is told other attacks are imminent.
IMO, and I'm no Dubya fan as you well know, President Obama's actions are much more despicable. President Bush did what he did so he wouldn't frighten children. He was probably in shock as well. EVERY American was when they heard that. No one can say what they would do if they would have heard that as POTUS. No POTUS had ever dealt with something like that. President Obama, on the other hand, made a calculated and selfish decision to continue campaigning. He could have contacted Mitt Romney and asked him to cease his campaign so he could deal with the attacks. Whatever Romney did would have worked in President Obama's favor. Result A) If Gov Romney decided to continue campaigning, Pres Obama could have called him out on it and made him look insensitive. Result B) If Gov Romney suspended his campaign as requested, it would have put the POTUS front and center without competition for airwaves while he dealt with the attack. Instead, Pres Obama chose the worst possible course of action. To leave Hillary Clinton to deal with it.....again.

Valeria Plame Affair- Bush Administration leaks covert operatives name to the press in an alleged attempt at retribution towards her husband who wrote a scathing op-ed against the Bush Administration. Yeah, this is bad. It's a leak revealing a covert CIA operative who is under cover at the time. I'm not defending this at all. However.......
OBL Operation details/Al Qaeda double agents/Al Qaeda kill or capture lists and how they're made/Stuxnet cyberweapon-Yeah, lose one operative, it hurts her particular operations. When you give away broad, sweeping details and tactics such as the ones given away in all of the cases above, you're putting a lot of people in danger. I'm not alleging this was done for political gain. I don't know that. What I do know is that all of this stuff made it to the press and Pres Obama has even acknowledged it's a problem.

So called torture of detainees: We all know this story
Personally approving of UAV strikes: Is this really better? At least you get info from waterboarding guys. UAV strikes on alleged Al Qaeda operatives in the midst of civilians is far worse IMO. It has been published that there is an "acceptable level" of civilian deaths when these strikes are being considered.

I could keep going and going. For every controversy or scandal Pres Bush had in his 8 years, there is an equally disturbing one in the 4 years of Pres Obama.

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I don't see anything under Obama that matches Bush. While I didn't react much to your first Bush example, the rest are not even close to being equal. Bush not only sanctioned torture, but tried to excuse it and play word games. And while I don't support Such attacks, also done under Bush, torture cannot be excused.

Re: Obama Administration Watched Them Die And Denied Their Request For Help

marsden said:

They are, indeed, heroes. They disobeyed direct orders to stand down before deciding to try to save the Ambassador. They had to have known the odds were long against their getting out alive.

THAT is heroism.

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They are heroes and they are to be commended for their bravery. But they are dead and they didn't save the ambassodor.

I suspect that decisions that were made were made to avoid making more dead heroes.