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A case for the President.

James D Hill said:
In the 80's this country took a turn for the worse as far as the power of labor being deminished and the power of corporations and the very wealthy increasing. It became fashionable to drug test,lay off by the thousands to protect the bottom line and treat workers like the robber barons of the late 1800's did before the anti trust laws.American business had declaired was on the American worker and Barac Obama is the first President to fight that trend thus his unpopularity with the 1%.
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Well, your entitled to your opinion but let me ask you some things... What federal laws have been enacted since Reagan took office that have reduced the power of labor? And what laws did Obama pass that benefited labor? Those are serious questions, especially the first one, that I'm interested in knowing the answers to.

And I agree with you that in most cases, drug testing in the workplace is BS.


I must ask as far as the economy goes just how much better would a GOP president have done in the same situation that Obama inherited. I say not much better if at all...
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Well, I think a GOP president would have done at least somewhat better on the economy, because there wouldn't be any Obamacare. Whether you support a national health care system or not, the timing of it's passage had a negative effect on job growth and economic expansion, which continues today and will likely continue for some time to come no matter who's elected. It created uncertainty in the business community when we were in the middle of a major recession. Not a good combo.


...and nothing at all would have been done or tried to correct the power of corporate America and nobody would have said a word against the immoral outsourcing of American jobs.
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Every president has bitched about the outsourcing of jobs, but we live in a free country and a free market society and honestly, it's very hard to do anything about it. Obama's approach is to punish businesses by way of taxation, which will not bring the jobs back because it won't change the cost of labor or the cost of doing business here, and will likely only result in higher prices for their goods and services. Romney's got the right idea here, which is to diminish the financial burden of doing business in the US, so it's more attractive for companies... But there's still the issue of labor cost, so like I said...

At least Obama calls them out for it. You know the GOP and their hands off attitude towards business would have done nothing.
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We have corporate laws... The problem has been with the government either failing to properly enforce them, or choosing to ignore certain laws based on political considerations.

In spite of the fake outrages the conservative have tried to trump up against the President
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I don't participate in "fake" outrage and the criticism that's been leveled against him on his policies and governing, are completely legitimate. The birther crap, his personal associations and the other issues that fall outside his performance as president, are nothing but political noise at this point. Much in the same way "bindergate" and Romney's religion are.



and the fact the right has sabataged everything they could to prevent the President any victories the President indead has had several great accomplishments and would have had more if we did not have the GOP fighting everything even if they once supported it.
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Sadly, It would have been the same if McCain had won... That's just what our politics has evolved to over the last 8 or 10 years.


It is a wonder the President is still in this race but I think he deserves four more years
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If the economy wasn't so bad and his policies would have had a more positive effect on things, maybe... But things aren't looking too good now and as much as I hate to say it, I just don't see that light at the end of the tunnel... So in my opinion we just can't afford to stay on this path any longer.
 
s
James D Hill said:
I am not going to sit here and act like my side is winning the debate to get the President re-elected this year. I say to my conservative friends that your guess is as good as mine. I think the time for talking trash is over so here is my case for re-electing Barac Obama.

In the 80's this country took a turn for the worse as far as the power of labor being deminished and the power of corporations and the very wealthy increasing. It became fashionable to drug test,lay off by the thousands to protect the bottom line and treat workers like the robber barons of the late 1800's did before the anti trust laws.American business had declaired was on the American worker and Barac Obama is the first President to fight that trend thus his unpopularity with the 1%.

I must ask as far as the economy goes just how much better would a GOP president have done in the same situation that Obama inherited. I say not much better if at all and nothing at all would have been done or tried to correct the power of corporate America and nobody would have said a word against the immoral outsourcing of American jobs. At least Obama calls them out for it. You know the GOP and their hands off attitude towards business would have done nothing.

In spite of the fake outrages the conservative have tried to trump up against the President and the fact the right has sabataged everything they could to prevent the President any victories the President indead has had several great accomplishments and would have had more if we did not have the GOP fighting everything even if they once supported it. It is a wonder the President is still in this race but I think he deserves four more years.
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Your off quite a bit. In the 80's the economy took off. People weren't laid off by the thousands, they were hired by the millions. The outsourcing started in the 1990's. Ever hear of NAFTA? Ross Perot? NAFTA was signed into law by President Clinton.
 
jerry7 said:
s

Your off quite a bit. In the 80's the economy took off. People weren't laid off by the thousands, they were hired by the millions. The outsourcing started in the 1990's. Ever hear of NAFTA? Ross Perot? NAFTA was signed into law by President Clinton.
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There were a lot of layoffs in the 80's but they were usually short-term with slow seasons from what I can gather--a week here, a month there type stuff. Certainly not any of this 5 year unemployment crap.
 
Fisher said:
There were a lot of layoffs in the 80's but they were usually short-term with slow seasons from what I can gather--a week here, a month there type stuff. Certainly not any of this 5 year unemployment crap.
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In the early 80's. As Reagan's policies took effect everything started booming. BTW, I never heard Reagan blame Carter for anything. Once Carter was out of the White House the whole country forgot about him until years later when he resurfaced building houses for Habitat for Humanity. Nobody in the Reagan administration ever used him as a scapegoat. What a difference between that administration and Obama's.
 
jerry7 said:
In the early 80's. As Reagan's policies took effect everything started booming. BTW, I never heard Reagan blame Carter for anything. Once Carter was out of the White House the whole country forgot about him until years later when he resurfaced building houses for Habitat for Humanity. Nobody in the Reagan administration ever used him as a scapegoat. What a difference between that administration and Obama's.
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The D-R form difference is night and day, even with Bush. W. stays out of politics even though Clinton would talk smack about him; Obama drags the press corps out when bodies are coming home when Bush and his wife will not even talk much about their great many visits to the wounded warriors or families of the fallen because they think that is all off-limits from public consumption. Salvatore Giunta seemed extremely uncomfortable with being paraded out by the WH to become the first living Medal of Honor recipient since Vietnam and took some flak about whether or not he even deserved it. That said, I think that George H.W. Bush was the last world-caliber President we had. W. just was not well-equipped for what happened on 9/11 and since which prevented him from ever really doing anything on his original platform. Clinton and Obama were/are just reality stars more than leaders IMHO.
 
Bobcat said:
maybe, Maggie. But I have serious concerns about a second obama term during which he does not have to worry about anothe election or pleasing his base.

Here's my bet----If obama gets reelected, some time in 2014 he will call a press conference and say that he has been struggling with this for years and he has decided to return to his muslim roots and return to the practice of Islam. He will shortly thereafter introduce a bill making sharia law applicable in the US. The liberals will say "oh, its not big deal" until the women are told to put on abayas when leaving the house and that they can no longer drive or be seen in public without a husband or male member of their family.
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How could you seriously think this? I am not trying to be rude, just trying to understand why you would think a man who has been a practicing Christian for so long, and has raised his children as Christian, to suddenly convert to Islam?

Moreover the president would have absolutely zero power to enact Sharia law, especially in a Christian country with a Christian supermajority in all levels of government.

This is right up there with people saying Bush was gonna start martial law and enact a fascist dictatorship on his second term, it was all just silly FUD, with a few nuggets of truth being distorted to make the theory sound plausible.
 
James D Hill said:
..American business had declaired was on the American worker and Barac Obama is the first President to fight that trend thus his unpopularity with the 1%...
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"...wa[r] on the American worker..."? When did that happen? I missed that declaration. No more valid than the the Republican "war on women." It is all contrived to try and make the lemmings feel oppressed. If the lemmings are oppressed they will need a savior. If they need a savior they will vote for a socialist like Obama. "American business" drives our economy. If you are depending on the government to save you, I wish you luck. The government is fickle. If you don't like your job, get another one...oh sorry, Obama has put the kabash on that.

Plenty of the "1%" support Obama. How about those folks in Hollywood, Soros, Buffet, Moore, etc. I think the problem with these guys is that they have this guilt complex that they don't make an honest living in the first place. Or, they have so much money they would never notice if a few sheckles were deducted from their accounts. It is disingenuous of Obama to make villians out of these folks when he is accepting checks from them.

Obama has been successful in one thing - severely deviding this country. If you don't believe that, go back and read through a few of the threads in DP. I think we can do better. Obama's policy is devide and conquer. This is how you stay in power. He is making sure that the lemmings remain oppressed. Spend us into dept, destroy the economy, create more unemployment, create more lemmings...what a plan.
 
James D Hill said:
I am not going to sit here and act like my side is winning the debate to get the President re-elected this year. I say to my conservative friends that your guess is as good as mine. I think the time for talking trash is over so here is my case for re-electing Barac Obama.

In the 80's this country took a turn for the worse as far as the power of labor being deminished and the power of corporations and the very wealthy increasing. It became fashionable to drug test,lay off by the thousands to protect the bottom line and treat workers like the robber barons of the late 1800's did before the anti trust laws.American business had declaired was on the American worker and Barac Obama is the first President to fight that trend thus his unpopularity with the 1%.

I must ask as far as the economy goes just how much better would a GOP president have done in the same situation that Obama inherited. I say not much better if at all and nothing at all would have been done or tried to correct the power of corporate America and nobody would have said a word against the immoral outsourcing of American jobs. At least Obama calls them out for it. You know the GOP and their hands off attitude towards business would have done nothing.

In spite of the fake outrages the conservative have tried to trump up against the President and the fact the right has sabataged everything they could to prevent the President any victories the President indead has had several great accomplishments and would have had more if we did not have the GOP fighting everything even if they once supported it. It is a wonder the President is still in this race but I think he deserves four more years.
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sorry, but that was a pretty crappy case for the President.
 
Bobcat said:
you said that employers do not care about their workers. I would like to see some proof of your claim. Are the auto workers in the non-union factories in the south better or worse off than the union auto workers in Detroit? Do you have any idea? have you checked? If you do you will find that they have wages and benefits equal or better than the union guys, and they don't have to pay union dues.
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Detriot pays better than the auto makers in the south like Toyota,Hondor hundai who choce those those locations because they where right to work states. I live in Washington state but travel to right to work states like Oklahoma where my fathers family lives and Idaho. I can tell you first hand right to work states do not have the wealth anywhere, except the oil companies,that they do here in Washington.

The fact that employers can now drug test you,do background checks and any damn thing they want shows a lack of trust. It used to be companies valued their employee's but now all they value is the bottom line and all they do is look for reasons to lay off and cut cost no matter who it hurts even if it means outsourcing. This was not the way it was when I stared working in the 70,s. It seems the fat cats want to screw the American worker every way they can and that is fact.
 
Thrilla said:
sorry, but that was a pretty crappy case for the President.
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Details my friend. I think I am making good points and I did not even mention the fact that good old Mitt will appoint far right social conservatives to positions of power like GW Bush did after he was elected. We can not have social conservatives even near any power and you as a libertarian should fear that also because of your views on our right to privacy. Social conservatives are the enemy of civil liberties and libertarians should fear them as much as us hippies do.
 
Bobcat said:
How many of the house-passed budget bills has Reid allowed to be discussed or voted on in the senate? How many, Jimmy? put up or shut up because you are totally wrong on this.
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All the bills blocked by Harry have been redneck like defunding planned parenthood or rolling back gay rights. What comes around goes around and Harry is just giving the tea party nutjobs a tast of their own crap. The GOP has swung so far to the right there is nothing they have tried that is worth a crap. Oh by the way we are legalizing marijuana in Washington state next month. I will love to hear the moral crusaders scream and cry.
 
James D Hill said:
Details my friend. I think I am making good points and I did not even mention the fact that good old Mitt will appoint far right social conservatives to positions of power like GW Bush did after he was elected. We can not have social conservatives even near any power and you as a libertarian should fear that also because of your views on our right to privacy. Social conservatives are the enemy of civil liberties and libertarians should fear them as much as us hippies do.
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I couldn't agree more!!

We need courts that are much more mainstream! Like the 9th circuit in San Francisco, for instance...

<double face palm>
 
RenoCon said:
"...wa[r] on the American worker..."? When did that happen? I missed that declaration. No more valid than the the Republican "war on women." It is all contrived to try and make the lemmings feel oppressed. If the lemmings are oppressed they will need a savior. If they need a savior they will vote for a socialist like Obama. "American business" drives our economy. If you are depending on the government to save you, I wish you luck. The government is fickle. If you don't like your job, get another one...oh sorry, Obama has put the kabash on that.

Plenty of the "1%" support Obama. How about those folks in Hollywood, Soros, Buffet, Moore, etc. I think the problem with these guys is that they have this guilt complex that they don't make an honest living in the first place. Or, they have so much money they would never notice if a few sheckles were deducted from their accounts. It is disingenuous of Obama to make villians out of these folks when he is accepting checks from them.

Obama has been successful in one thing - severely deviding this country. If you don't believe that, go back and read through a few of the threads in DP. I think we can do better. Obama's policy is devide and conquer. This is how you stay in power. He is making sure that the lemmings remain oppressed. Spend us into dept, destroy the economy, create more unemployment, create more lemmings...what a plan.
Click to expand...

What about those right wing nutjobs who want to make abortion illegal,roll back gay rights,fight marijuana legalization and turn those on welfare to the streets in spite of this bad economy. Are those morons thrying to unite this country? I think not. The GOP uses class warfare all the time what do you think Romney was saying on his 47% remark? Class warfare my friend. The right has tried to hide the fact they are morons on the social issues but they will come out after thwe right wins that is why they cant.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
I couldn't agree more!!

We need courts that are much more mainstream! Like the 9th circuit in San Francisco, for instance...

<double face palm>
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That would be perfect. That way we could roll back all redneck ideas and make thios country free and fair.
 
Mr. Hill, I may be jumping the gun here and if so, I apologize, but I was wondering if you were going to address my response?

If you don't want to engage in a debate over what I posted, that's your choice and I'm cool with that... But I would however like for you to answer the questions I posed to you in the first paragraph of my response concerning the basis for your viewpoint. Those questions were:

What federal laws have been enacted since Reagan took office that have reduced the power of labor?

What laws did Obama pass that benefited labor?

Thanks.
 
Grim17 said:
Mr. Hill, I may be jumping the gun here and if so, I apologize, but I was wondering if you were going to address my response?

If you don't want to engage in a debate over what I posted, that's your choice and I'm cool with that... But I would however like for you to answer the questions I posed to you in the first paragraph of my response concerning the basis for your viewpoint. Those questions were:

What federal laws have been enacted since Reagan took office that have reduced the power of labor?

What laws did Obama pass that benefited labor?

Thanks.
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First of all he fired the air traffic controllers and set a standard that hurts labor to this day. He used the exutive order to random drug test federal employees that is still violating our personal freedoms to this day. His war on drugs was the nastiest attack on our personal freedoms ever. The fact that he cut mental health care and increased our homeless population 800% in one week.Mr Regean was a horrible president unless you where rich or a right wing wing nut.
 
Grim17 said:
Mr. Hill, I may be jumping the gun here and if so, I apologize, but I was wondering if you were going to address my response?

If you don't want to engage in a debate over what I posted, that's your choice and I'm cool with that... But I would however like for you to answer the questions I posed to you in the first paragraph of my response concerning the basis for your viewpoint. Those questions were:

What federal laws have been enacted since Reagan took office that have reduced the power of labor?

What laws did Obama pass that benefited labor?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Obama thried several pro labor ideas that where blocked by the right wingers in the house. He tried but the righties love big business and hate labor.
 
James D Hill said:
What about those right wing nutjobs who want to make abortion illegal,roll back gay rights,fight marijuana legalization and turn those on welfare to the streets in spite of this bad economy. Are those morons thrying to unite this country?
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You've been drinking the Koolaid.

"make abortion illegal" - No , return it back to the states where it belongs. Federal Government should not be involved in this.

"roll back gay rights" - No, just defending "marriage" as it has been defined for thousands of years.

"fight marijuana legalization" - I don't really have an opinion on this and I think there is considerable devision on both sides. I think most "right wing nutjobs" think the Federal Government shouldn't be involved in this either.

"turn those on welfare to the streets in spite of this bad economy" - No, just get them a job by improving the economy. I am conviced that people are happier when they have a chance to contribute in some way.

I am sure there are "right wing nutjobs" that have extreme positions on these issues (or perhaps exactly the same as you with regards to the MJ issue) but I don't think they will be in the majority and running the country after Romney is elected.
 
James D Hill said:
First of all he fired the air traffic controllers and set a standard that hurts labor to this day.
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Yes he did fire them, and he was correct in doing so... The controllers signed an agreement that legally prevented them from striking and walking off the job. Besides the fact that walking off the job created a serious threat to public safety.

It was the controllers fault and their union for being fired, not President Reagan's... Although he could have, Reagan didn't just fire them on the spot for violating their contract, he gave them 48 hours to return to work and honor the agreement they signed... Those who ended up losing their jobs, chose to lose them.



He used the exutive order to random drug test federal employees that is still violating our personal freedoms to this day.
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When it comes to publicly funded government employees that protect the public's safety, or their job performance can risk public safety (such as AT Controllers), I fully support drug testing.


His war on drugs was the nastiest attack on our personal freedoms ever. The fact that he cut mental health care and increased our homeless population 800% in one week.Mr Regean was a horrible president unless you where rich or a right wing wing nut.
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Those things have nothing to do with the questions I asked you... Both of which btw, you have not as of yet answered... So let me ask you again:

What federal laws have been enacted since Reagan took office that have reduced the power of labor?

What laws did Obama pass that benefited labor?
 
James D Hill said:
Obama thried several pro labor ideas that where blocked by the right wingers in the house. He tried but the righties love big business and hate labor.
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Is this about the American labor force in general, or about labor unions?

Either way, tell me about the pro-labor (union) bills in congress that were proposed by President Obama, that were blocked by those evil "right wingers?"
 
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