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Why Obama is likely to blow the second debate too

haymarket said:
Here is a list of Obama accomplishments

The Washington Monthly - The Magazine - Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments

and more can be found here

A LONG List of President Obama’s Accomplishments – With Citations | Addicting Info

and this also

Daily Kos: President Obama's Accomplishments So Far

What policies have failed?

The economy is making a comeback - slow but steady to be sure.

We are ending our foreign wars.

We have domestic peace.

He was able to get through a health care reform that no president has been able to do for 80 years.

He has reformed many government procedures and agencies.

He has a decent enough record.
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The sad part, is that you post the messionic accomplishments with a straight face.
 
CedarBear said:
Really? You sure about that?

What progressive reforms do you fear losing?
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I would be happy to examine any information you would like to present which demonstrtes that Social Security has added one cent to our annual deficits or to the total national debt.

What progressive reforms to I fear losing?

Social Security.

Progressive taxation based on ability to pay.

Womens rights over their own lives and bodies.

Government regulation of many many things in our nation. You could write a book filling it with the details.

The right to vote as it now exists without restriction, infringement or restriction.

Public education for all.

Rights of workers to organize in labor unions and negotiate for wages, hours and working conditions.

Consumer protection laws and government programs to implement consumer protections.

that is just for starters and I would hope it is enough to send a ice cold chill down the spine of any caring American.
 
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apdst said:
The sad part, is that you post the messionic accomplishments with a straight face.
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Actually the really sad part is you condemning Obama but then are woefully impotent to actually negate any of his accomplishments when presented with them.
 
apdst said:
The sad part, is that you post the messionic accomplishments with a straight face.
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Personally, I find it sad that people cannot get over their partisanship and look at this contest objectively. If you take your own emotions out of it for a minute it is obvious to see that Obama will win.
 
Exhaustive, head-scratching, tense meetings are taking place in conference rooms of the MSM all over devising a the spin and talking points for tonight's expected disaster.

Gallup has women split now between Romney and Obama. If he can't win the women's vote by a good margin, Obama is cooked.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Personally, I find it sad that people cannot get over their partisanship and look at this contest objectively. If you take your own emotions out of it for a minute it is obvious to see that Obama will win.
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Hello pot, I'm kettle.
 
Guy Incognito said:
The performance of the first debate was part of the rope a dope strategy and mitt played right into it. Biden did his part in slowing the republican momentum. Tonight Romney is going to take a pummeling from Obama ( the town hall format particularly plays to BHO's strengths), and in round three Obama will deliver the knockout blow. This thing has been over for Romney for weeks, it just doesn't seem like it since Romney supporters are just so loud. But volume does not win elections, strategy does.
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Well said. I think this is the case. No matter how loudly they scream, they can't accept it.
 
Bobcat said:
The polls are still moving pro Romney.
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'fraid not.

polls_debate%20and%20after.JPG



Tonight will probably decide the election. If obama pulls a Biden, he is toast. If he repeats his first debate, he is toast. If he tries to defend his terrible record, he is toast.

The only way Romney can lose is if he falls asleep during one of obama's rants. Obama's problem is that he has no record to run on, and no plans to do anything different if he gets another term. why would anyone want 4 more years like the last 4? His whole campaign has been to paint Romney as some kind of evil corporatist who hates poor people. When the people see and hear the real Romney, they realize that the Obama campaign is nothing but lies and distortion---typical Axelrod Chicago dirty politics.
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Yep, Democrats appreciate your setting the bar so low. I'm sure we'll see a better performance from Obama. Whether Romney can maintain the high level he achieved in the first debate remains to be seen.
 
Random observations going into Round 2:

Axlerod reminds me too much of Dr. Phil so my sanity-protection shield automatically goes up the second I see him on TV no matter what he is saying so I suspect that other may feel the same. Obama really needs a better talking head for the press.

It appears that women are more interested in the economy this time than abortion, so I guess people are more worried about feeding the kids they got. I've had several nurses tell me that labor & delivery is WAY down and it always is when the economy blows which I found interesting.

I saw someone on CNN (I think) who is a body language expert who said Romney will struggle this time because of his chicken mannerisms which I thought was hilarious since I had already noted that sometimes he moves his head around like a chicken. He really needs to look people in the face and not be constantly scanning the room with erratic head movements (I assume he has a bad back or neck from the way he moves).
 
AdamT said:
I seem to recall a lot of Righties who were absolutely confident that Ryan would destroy Biden. :lamo
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As it turned out he didn't have to, Biden did that all by himself with his wild childish antics.
 
Guy Incognito said:
The performance of the first debate was part of the rope a dope strategy and mitt played right into it. Biden did his part in slowing the republican momentum. Tonight Romney is going to take a pummeling from Obama ( the town hall format particularly plays to BHO's strengths), and in round three Obama will deliver the knockout blow. This thing has been over for Romney for weeks, it just doesn't seem like it since Romney supporters are just so loud. But volume does not win elections, strategy does.
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The problem with this assessment is that there has to be something to pummel Romney with and I don't think that 47% stuff can get Obama anywhere near where he needs to be. Obama's record is like a treasure trove of heavy blunt instruments just waiting to be used against him and Romney is a very capable opponent. I don't think Romney is going to blow him out the way he did the first time but there is really nothing Obama can do to turn the tables, either. His record is always going to be there like an albatross around his neck. It's like Romney gets spotted a 10 point lead before the thing even starts.(maybe 15 with the Libya stuff now in play)

At this point all Romney has to do is just hammer Obama's record, avoid putting his foot in his mouth, and start working on his acceptance speech.
 
Bobcat said:
OBL is dead because of Bush era intel and a great Seal team, all Barry did was reluctantly give the OK

GM is in terrible financial condition, the taxpayers will never get their money back

Net jobs have been lost every month, do you know the meaning of the word "net"

More americans have died in Afghanistan under obama than under bush

obama stole 716 billion from medicare, obamacare will destroy the medical industry and the insurance industry, it is a terrible bill

a temporary cut in the FICA withholding rate for political purposes does nothing but make the SS weaker

DADT---who cares?

investments like Solyndra? Woo Hooo!
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Someone actually defending Bush intel? Wow, that is baffling.

What Bush Knew Before Sept. 11 - CBS News
Bush Administration Ignored 9/11 Warnings -- Daily Intel

In case you forgot. Saying Bush's (or Cheney's to be precise) intel found OBL is a blatant lie.

GM Posts Record $7.6-Billion Profit - ABC News GM has paid back almost half of the bailout already, taxpayers still own 30% of the stock, and GM made $7.6 billion in 2011.

Obamacare cuts Medicare spending, but keeps Medicare benefits, it's not stealing. Don't believe everything you hear in a VP debate.

More lower paying jobs are being created because he's trying to get the manufacturing base back in America. You have to create the foundation (lower paying jobs), before you can build a house (management). Usually how it works.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
The problem with this assessment is that there has to be something to pummel Romney with and I don't think that 47% stuff can get Obama anywhere near where he needs to be. Obama's record is like a treasure trove of heavy blunt instruments just waiting to be used against him and Romney is a very capable opponent. I don't think Romney is going to blow him out the way he did the first time but there is really nothing Obama can do to turn the tables, either. His record is always going to be there like an albatross around his neck. It's like Romney gets spotted a 10 point lead before the thing even starts.(maybe 15 with the Libya stuff now in play)

At this point all Romney has to do is just hammer Obama's record, avoid putting his foot in his mouth, and start working on his acceptance speech.
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Obama has plenty of ammo against Romney after the first debate. Romney is the biggest flip flopper since Kerry. The minute Romney says something all Obama has to do is point out that Romney has contradicted himself earlier in his campaign. Romney's entire campaign platform is based on a lack of specifics and self contradiction on any specifics he has offered. Obama will easily pummel him with this huge weakness.
 
AdamT said:
Substantively Ryan, like Romney, was making it up as he was going along, and thus he sure didn't win.

If people didn't expect Romney to win the first debate then they weren't paying attention to history. The challenger almost always wins the first presidential debate. Granted, Romney won it more convincingly than most expected.

Tonights debate will be interesting. It's akin to a football game where one team dominates the first half. Was it because that team was more talented? Or did that team do something to catch the other team by surprise -- something that can be countered by halftime adjustments? We'll see.

As far as which debate had a bigger impact, it was again predictable that the presidential debate would have the bigger impact. That is almost always the case. But it's worth noting that since the VP debate the polls have stopped moving in Romney's direction and are coming back a little towards Obama -- just about what I predicted.
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The thing is T your guy lost the first half, if he loses again tonight it's over. If your guy win it's a tied ballgame. It then goes into overtime, and according to your football analogy the winner then takes all. The problem for your guy he has to win both the second half and the overtime. Meaning your guy is at a huge disadvantage.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Obama has plenty of ammo against Romney after the first debate. Romney is the biggest flip flopper since Kerry. The minute Romney says something all Obama has to do is point out that Romney has contradicted himself earlier in his campaign. Romney's entire campaign platform is based on a lack of specifics and self contradiction on any specifics he has offered. Obama will easily pummel him with this huge weakness.
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Obama has plenty of ammo, are you kidding me. Obama has a failed record and a coverup in Libya, Romney was a successful in business, successful in running the Olympics, and a successful government. So what you have is failure against success. I never bet on failure.
 
Born Free said:
Obama has plenty of ammo, are you kidding me. Obama has a failed record and a coverup in Libya, Romney was a successful in business, successful in running the Olympics, and a successful government. So what you have is failure against success. I never bet on failure.
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You're not looking at this objectively. That stuff might convince you, but you are in the tank for the GOP no matter what. How is Romney going to be able to use any of that to his advantage? You can try to stir the pot about "benghazigate" but you just end up looking like a troofer conspiracy theorist. That's just not persuasive to independents.
 
Obama did the same strategy I would have taken in the first debate. Allow my opponent to open mouth, insert foot, and give me all the ammo I need for the next debate. Then let my opponent to continue doing what he does best before the next debate and get my strategy finalized. The polls do not decide the election, the people who vote decide the election. I'd have more faith in polls if I knew where they were done and the people used in them.

I'm patiently waiting for 9pm to roll around...
 
Guy Incognito said:
Obama has plenty of ammo against Romney after the first debate. Romney is the biggest flip flopper since Kerry. The minute Romney says something all Obama has to do is point out that Romney has contradicted himself earlier in his campaign. Romney's entire campaign platform is based on a lack of specifics and self contradiction on any specifics he has offered. Obama will easily pummel him with this huge weakness.
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If Obama tries this strategy then he will drive the final nail into his own coffin.

The accusations of Romney's "flip-flopping" have been greatly exaggerated and Romney is quite slick enough to put Obama in the position of spending way to much time "splitting hairs" over subtleties while Romney himself can just spend his time hammering away on Obama's record. If Obama chooses this path the end result will be that(in the eyes of the viewer) he spent all of his time attacking Romney's character while Romney stayed focused on the issues. This plays right into the narrative that the Republicans have been floating since day one and that is when you have no record to run on all you can do is attack and demean your opponent. It would be clear confirmation and I am sure that the adds are already in the works in anticipation.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Obama has plenty of ammo against Romney after the first debate. Romney is the biggest flip flopper since Kerry. The minute Romney says something all Obama has to do is point out that Romney has contradicted himself earlier in his campaign. Romney's entire campaign platform is based on a lack of specifics and self contradiction on any specifics he has offered. Obama will easily pummel him with this huge weakness.
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That would be a HUGE mistake in a townhall meeting. People in the audience will be asking questions that are of concern to them and they will want the candidates spending time answering THEIR questions not bashing the other guy's record or agenda. If either side spends any significant time talking about the other when that was not specifically part of the question, then they will be perceived as disrespecting the regular citizen standing there wanting their concern addressed. Obama needs to save that for the last debate or his ads. This is not the format for tattle-telling responses.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
If Obama tries this strategy then he will drive the final nail into his own coffin.

The accusations of Romney's "flip-flopping" have been greatly exaggerated and Romney is quite slick enough to put Obama in the position of spending way to much time "splitting hairs" over subtleties while Romney himself can just spend his time hammering away on Obama's record. If Obama chooses this path the end result will be that(in the eyes of the viewer) he spent all of his time attacking Romney's character while Romney stayed focused on the issues. This plays right into the narrative that the Republicans have been floating since day one and that is when you have no record to run on all you can do is attack and demean your opponent. It would be clear confirmation and I am sure that the adds are already in the works in anticipation.
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I guess there is some danger of splitting hairs, but if you think the accusations of Romney as a flip flopper are exaggerated you must not have watched the first debate.

I appreciate you well reasoned argument but I think we are at a stalemate that won be resolved until we see the debate. You don get a chance to clearly resolve things very often. So we've both made our points, you going to be around the forum tonight or tomorrow? We can actually see who is right.
 
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Fisher said:
That would be a HUGE mistake in a townhall meeting. People in the audience will be asking questions that are of concern to them and they will want the candidates spending time answering THEIR questions not bashing the other guy's record or agenda. If either side spends any significant time talking about the other when that was not specifically part of the question, then they will be perceived as disrespecting the regular citizen standing there wanting their concern addressed. Obama needs to save that for the last debate or his ads. This is not the format for tattle-telling responses.
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I tend to agree, it will probably be brought out in debate three. I am not the master strategist, Obama is.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I guess there is some danger of splitting hairs, but if you think the accusations of Romney as a flip cooler are exaggerated you must not have watched the first debate.

I appreciate you well reasoned argument but I think we are at a stalemate that won be resolved until we see the debate. You don get a chance to clearly resolve things very often. So we've both made our points, you going to be around the forum tonight or tomorrow? We can actually see who is right.
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I'll be here. It's going to be fun to watch, if nothing else...
 
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