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For those of you that think Obama saved the car industry

Bobcat said:
it was none of the government's business. The government should not be bailing out any business, bank, or corporation. Thats the issue.
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I agree, however both Democrats and Republicans are committed to bail outs. Singling out Obama when they were all in it together is a joke.
 
Bobcat said:
Context is fine. GM is in financial trouble all over the world. Too big to fail? rather, too big to survive.
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No they are not, the Europe division has some problems directly related to the poor economics there, SA is middling while profits are up in Asia and the US.

But hey, being down on US manufacturing is in vogue with conservatives these days, whatever trips your trigger.
 
Bobcat said:
it was none of the government's business. The government should not be bailing out any business, bank, or corporation. Thats the issue.
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Lemme know when you start a thread about ALL subsidies to any industries, old, new or emerging.

PS...that isn't conservative....that is hardcore libertarianism.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Lemme know when you start a thread about ALL subsidies to any industries, old, new or emerging.

PS...that isn't conservative....that is hardcore libertarianism.
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all subsidies should be stopped, farm, green energy, ethanol. BTW, oil does not get subsidies---tax credits for exploration and developement are not subsidies.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No they are not, the Europe division has some problems directly related to the poor economics there, SA is middling while profits are up in Asia and the US.

But hey, being down on US manufacturing is in vogue with conservatives these days, whatever trips your trigger.
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No, I was merely pointing out the liberal hypocrisy of being anti-corporation except for GM and GE and others that are currently exporting jobs.

Why do you support companies that are sending US jobs to China and Mexico? Why do you hate american blue collar workers?
 
Verax said:
I agree, however both Democrats and Republicans are committed to bail outs. Singling out Obama when they were all in it together is a joke.
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Obama signed the GM and Chrysler bail out bills, they are his.
 
Bobcat said:
No, I was merely pointing out the liberal hypocrisy of being anti-corporation except for GM and GE and others that are currently exporting jobs.

Why do you support companies that are sending US jobs to China and Mexico? Why do you hate american blue collar workers?
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Why do you hate Mexicans?
 
Bobcat said:
No, I was merely pointing out the liberal hypocrisy of being anti-corporation ........
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I'm only "anti-corporate" as far as their gaining too much power, that does not mean I am against any and all. I try to avoid blanket, extremist statements...like this for instance:


all subsidies should be stopped
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And yes, dear bob, tax breaks for specific industries are subsidies. Direct or indirect, money saved is money saved.
 
spud_meister said:
Why do you hate Mexicans?
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I love tacos, enchilatas, buritos, salsa, and hot mexican girls. I just want GM cars to be made in the USA using american workers who are paying american taxes.
 
Bobcat said:
I love tacos, enchilatas, buritos, salsa, and hot mexican girls. I just want GM cars to be made in the USA using american workers who are paying american taxes.
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Why though? Mexico needs those jobs more.
 
Bobcat said:
I love tacos, enchilatas, buritos, salsa, and hot mexican girls. I just want GM cars to be made in the USA using american workers who are paying american taxes.
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Um, GM builds Opel's in Germany to avoid the importation taxation...just like the Japanese do in our country.

But then your whole argument breaks down, in that if you want US jobs here, then you ought to support an industry here. If the company goes down...as you wanted....those jobs would not exist.

Make up your mind.
 
Bobcat said:
I love tacos, enchilatas, buritos, salsa, and hot mexican girls. I just want GM cars to be made in the USA using american workers who are paying american taxes.
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So you don't want the government to interfere with businesses when it comes to bailing them out? But you do want the government to tell businesses where and how to operate? Make up your mind please. GM CEO Dan Akerson said they wouldn't have survived without the bailout. Romney letting them go bankrupt would've sunk them. You're not an economist, so stop making predictions about what could've happened if it was handled differently. The only thing to go on is that GM has already paid back half of the money it borrowed, and had record profits in 2011.
 
Bobcat said:
Obama signed the GM and Chrysler bail out bills, they are his.
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Had McCain been elected they would have been his. Again, it doesn't matter, they're all in it together.
 
azgreg said:
Not to be flippant, but why can't they design, build, and market their own car?
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GM sells cars in America, do you not want US companies to make profits by selling things in foriegn markets?
 
azgreg said:
Not to be flippant, but why can't they design, build, and market their own car?
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It's ok to be flippant, I am.

They can't because of foreign car companies having already established a market there, it would be almost impossible for a Mexican company to establish itself.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, GM builds Opel's in Germany to avoid the importation taxation...just like the Japanese do in our country.

But then your whole argument breaks down, in that if you want US jobs here, then you ought to support an industry here. If the company goes down...as you wanted....those jobs would not exist.

Make up your mind.
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GM would not have "gone down". Do you understand how a bankruptsy works? Has American airlines "gone down"? GM might have been broken up into smaller companies--maybe a chevy company, a buick company, a cadilac company, and a truck company. But the jobs would still be there, and the taxpayers would not have spent billions. BUT, the UAW might have lost some members, and that is the real reason for the bailouts---to save the union.
 
Bobcat said:
GM would not have "gone down". Do you understand how a bankruptsy works? Has American airlines "gone down"? GM might have been broken up into smaller companies--maybe a chevy company, a buick company, a cadilac company, and a truck company. But the jobs would still be there, and the taxpayers would not have spent billions. BUT, the UAW might have lost some members, and that is the real reason for the bailouts---to save the union.
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Again, this has been explained to you multiple times, their were NO private investors to buy, as a whole or in pieces, GM. The number of car companies in the US has been in constant decline, that trend, especially in a recession, was not going to suddenly reverse.

By the way, I wouldn't act like you are an expert on "bankruptsy", especially of the largest car company in the US, when you constantly misspell it.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Again, this has been explained to you multiple times, their were NO private investors to buy, as a whole or in pieces, GM. The number of car companies in the US has been in constant decline, that trend, especially in a recession, was not going to suddenly reverse.

By the way, I wouldn't act like you are an expert on "bankruptsy", especially of the largest car company in the US, when you constantly misspell it.
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Please forgive my typo in bankruptcy. Sometimes the fingers go faster than the brain. I guess you have never made a typo.

There were plenty of investors that would have jumped at buying some or all of GM at bargain prices. Obama and the UAW did not want that to happen, so they never even considered it.

I have explained to you several times that the GM bailout was to save the UAW, everyone who has looked into this knows that.

and the CEO is correct, they would not have survived without either a govt bailout or a bankruptcy proceeding. They chose the one that was best for them personally and best for the union, and the one that was best for obama by ensuring the continued flow of union money and support.
 
Bobcat said:
Its common knowledge. It would have been a great deal for any investment company--or another car company.
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It is so common...that you can't post even one.
 
Bobcat said:
Its common knowledge. It would have been a great deal for any investment company--or another car company.
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No, in this case Gimme is right. There were no private sources to fund the bkrpcy. Think about it, who would? Why would an investor engage in a 'debtor in possession' when one of the major issues to be resolved in the bkrptcy was union benefits? The government was the ONLY entity available with the power to force union concessions. Consider IF private sources DID fund the bkrptcy AND the union, a 1st tier creditor, failed to agree with the re-orgainzation terms the bkrptcy court would have no alternative than to move GM from chpt 11 to chpt 7 thus potentially causing these private investors to lose their funds.
 
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