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For those of you that think Obama saved the car industry

Travis007 said:
I see you will not deal with the point... btu nice nonsensical spin you offer
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Uh, there was no spin there whatsoever - if anybody bothered to look up sales numbers in both countries you would have realized that my supplemented premise is actually reality.

The problem with this thread is there was no point to begin with - it was stretching to make "70%" into a bad thing on it's own merit. But when you consider Chinese demand is greater than ours it becomes another obvious statistic.
 
Bobcat said:
Just a couple of corrections. Toyota is Japanese, not Chinese. The GM cars built in China are built by people being paid slave wages and working 60+ hours per week with virtually no benefits. GM is doing exactly what you on the left like to demonize american corporations for doing---killing american jobs and moving the work to china to make Profits. But, since the GM bailout was done by obama, it has to be a wonderful thing.

How do you manage to tie your own shoes?
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Thanks for the correction on Toyota.

If all that's moved to China for the most part is R&D and a few manufacturing plants to foster sells of GM cars abroad, I can live with that as long as more GM plants remain in the US versus being outsourced overseas.

As for tying my shoes, wouldn't you feel foolish if I told you all my shoes were either slip-ons or had velcro straps? :lol:
 
pdog said:
Uh, there was no spin there whatsoever - if anybody bothered to look up sales numbers in both countries you would have realized that my supplemented premise is actually reality.

The problem with this thread is there was no point to begin with - it was stretching to make "70%" into a bad thing on it's own merit. But when you consider Chinese demand is greater than ours it becomes another obvious statistic.
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so my tax money went to save jobs in China?....

**** THAT
 
Bobcat said:
General Motors is becoming China Motors - YouTube

listen, watch, and learn. You voters in Ohio and other swing states need to understand what obama did with your tax money and what he did to your jobs. How do you UAW members like having 70% of GM cars built overseas?
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Q: Is General Motors becoming ‘China Motors’ using taxpayer dollars?

A: No. The restructured GM is still based in Detroit and is still one-third owned by the U.S. government. But it sells nearly as many cars in China as in the U.S. and has continued expanding operations there.

(snip)

t’s true that GM shrank much of its U.S. operations — shedding old brands and dealerships and many workers — when it went through bankruptcy in 2009. The alternative was to go out of business entirely.

But since then, the “new” GM has enjoyed expanding sales and operations. For example, it announced in January that it is building a new, $200 million stamping plant in Arlington, Texas. And it states: “Since June 2009, the company has announced more than $6.9 billion of investment to upgrade or expand operations in 12 states, creating or retaining more than 17,600 jobs.”

It’s true that GM also has been expanding in China — but that was true long before the bailout. The “old” GM (the one that went bankrupt) was the largest foreign car maker in China in 2008, battling for supremacy there with Volkswagen.

(snip)

But then the video quotes extensively from a story in the Epoch Times newspaper, in which the reporter cites a “suspicion” that GM was marketing Cadillacs to top party officials to curry their favor. But the full text of the story shows the reporter prefaced that by saying, “I have no proof.” So that speculation may or may not be accurate.

A statement that China’s leaders constitute an “underworld mob” — also quoted — is the opinion of the Epoch Times writer, Matthew Robertson. As the video narrator mentions, the Epoch Times leadership has numerous ties to the dissident Falun Gong movement. Followers were widely persecuted by the Chinese government, and that may color the newspaper’s reporting.

FactCheck.org : Is GM Becoming ‘China Motors’?

As always, it's good to be skeptical of youtube videos. And yes, I watched it.
 
Travis007 said:
You are not from America I sense...
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LOL

you righty's that hate America soooooo much, funny guys

Look, you hate Obama, you hate him because he is Black, period.

You hate anything related to his administration, again, because he is Black, period.
 
Bobcat said:
Wonder how the UAW feels about all those GM jobs in China. Think they will try to organize the chinese workers in to a union? LOL
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Why not? They for damned sure need one.
 
AdamT said:
Why not? They for damned sure need one.
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right, lets unionize chinese workers so they can get huge wages and benefits beyond the value of their contribution to the product. Then the price of GM cars sold in china can double to cover the cost of labor and the Chinese will go back to buying toyotas and hondas. wonderful idea, Adam. Put the union in charge of GM/China and destroy the company.

You on the left are so conflicted, you rant and rave about how terrible it is when US companies move offshore, but if its GM you praise it because it was done with our money.
 
Objective Voice said:
Thanks for the correction on Toyota.

If all that's moved to China for the most part is R&D and a few manufacturing plants to foster sells of GM cars abroad, I can live with that as long as more GM plants remain in the US versus being outsourced overseas.

As for tying my shoes, wouldn't you feel foolish if I told you all my shoes were either slip-ons or had velcro straps? :lol:
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Never did master that shoelace thing, eh?

How do you feel about the GM plants in Mexico? Obama, the UAW, and GM hoodwinked the US taxpayers into bailing out a failing, badly managed company. Letting it go through bankruptsy would have cost us nothing, the new companies would have hired the workers, and the creditors would have received a proportional payment of debts owed. BUT, the UAW might have lost some members since the new companies would have had union representation votes, Obama could not risk losing all of those union dollars and votes, so he bought them with our money.
 
Bobcat said:
right, lets unionize chinese workers so they can get huge wages and benefits beyond the value of their contribution to the product. Then the price of GM cars sold in china can double to cover the cost of labor and the Chinese will go back to buying toyotas and hondas. wonderful idea, Adam. Put the union in charge of GM/China and destroy the company.

You on the left are so conflicted, you rant and rave about how terrible it is when US companies move offshore, but if its GM you praise it because it was done with our money.
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Talk about conflicted! One minute you're bellyaching about how the Chinese are slave labor and the next minute you're whining about the possibility that they might make a decent living if they were unionized.
 
Bobcat said:
Never did master that shoelace thing, eh?

How do you feel about the GM plants in Mexico? Obama, the UAW, and GM hoodwinked the US taxpayers into bailing out a failing, badly managed company. Letting it go through bankruptsy would have cost us nothing, the new companies would have hired the workers, and the creditors would have received a proportional payment of debts owed. BUT, the UAW might have lost some members since the new companies would have had union representation votes, Obama could not risk losing all of those union dollars and votes, so he bought them with our money.
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I feel good about GM doing what it needs to do to stay profitable for the long haul. As long as they are increasing employment in the US, which they are, it's good for the country.
 
AdamT said:
Talk about conflicted! One minute you're bellyaching about how the Chinese are slave labor and the next minute you're whining about the possibility that they might make a decent living if they were unionized.
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No, you missed my point. You on the left complain about unfair working conditions in the US, but you have no issue with GM building cars in china using slave labor.

BTW, union organizers in China have a way of disappearing and are never heard from again.
 
AdamT said:
I feel good about GM doing what it needs to do to stay profitable for the long haul. As long as they are increasing employment in the US, which they are, it's good for the country.
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I agree 100% with that statement. I just do not agree that we taxpayers should have bailed GM out. A normal bankruptsy proceeding would have had very similar results and would have cost us nothing.
 
Bobcat said:
I agree 100% with that statement. I just do not agree that we taxpayers should have bailed GM out. A normal bankruptcy proceeding would have had very similar results and would have cost us nothing.
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What about the GM CEO Dan Akerson saying they wouldn't have made it without the bailout? You say let them go through bankruptcy, but they would have went under and we would've lost all of those jobs. I agree with letting them go bankrupt, but Akerson would've known better than anyone what his company needed. Given, he had his own agenda for the funding he received, but I don't think you could take the risk by not giving them the funding.
 
Bobcat said:
I agree 100% with that statement. I just do not agree that we taxpayers should have bailed GM out. A normal bankruptsy proceeding would have had very similar results and would have cost us nothing.
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That is where you are absolutely mistaken. Without the bailout GM and Chrysler were headed toward Chapter 7 liquidation as opposed to the Chapter 11 reorganization that they were able to accomplish. Liquidation means no more GM and Chrysler.
 
AdamT said:
Talk about conflicted! One minute you're bellyaching about how the Chinese are slave labor and the next minute you're whining about the possibility that they might make a decent living if they were unionized.
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How The GM Bailout Turned Into Foreign Aid | The Truth About Cars

A full calculation of GM’s overseas expenditures since the bailout would be a daunting task indeed. Simply by scouring GM’s latest SEC filings, one finds no shortage of losses and one-time expenditures abroad. In fact, nearly every division of GM’s global empire has required some kind of assistance over the last year or so. These expenditures come in many forms, from tax assessments to investments, from bailouts to severance deals, and due to the complex nature of GM’s global finances they cannot be fully accounted with precision. But they all emphasize the reality that, after years of living off foreign operations, GM’s bailed-out North American division is now bailing out the rest of the world.
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Bobcat said:
65 billion lost overseas by GM since bailout. What a great deal for us.
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Um, it was 6.5B, not "65", and you are looking at one of the worst periods in the history of the company and world economy....but hey, if decimal points don't matter, then I suppose context doesn't either.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, it was 6.5B, not "65", and you are looking at one of the worst periods in the history of the company and world economy....but hey, if decimal points don't matter, then I suppose context doesn't either.
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right, my mistake. 6.5 BILLION. thats 6.5 thousand million dollars---to give you some indication of how much money this is. ( a billion is a thousand million)
 
Bobcat said:
right, my mistake. 6.5 BILLION. thats 6.5 thousand million dollars---to give you some indication of how much money this is. ( a billion is a thousand million)
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I'm glad you got the math straightened out, now about that context issue.....any improvement?
 
Obamy never gave a crap about GM - he only cared about UAW...

All of Obama's economic policies revolve around unions - his stimulus' are a perfect example of that.

Then people wonder why Obama (or progressives in general) is labeled as a socialist? are unions not socialist in nature?
 
So let me get this right. Obama is being criticized for not saving GM, for saving GM, for GM building automobiles outside the U.S., for saving UAW, for screwing the people in UAW??? When you guys attack every aspect of everything he does from every angle imaginable it kind of illegitimizes your argument.
 
Verax said:
So let me get this right. Obama is being criticized for not saving GM, for saving GM, for GM building automobiles outside the U.S., for saving UAW, for screwing the people in UAW??? When you guys attack every aspect of everything he does from every angle imaginable it kind of illegitimizes your argument.
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No, Obama saved - or rather - sustained UAW - not GM. Obama kept the union afloat and now the ship is sinking again.

The only people who would contemplate investing in such loony nonsense are progressives, but the majority of progressives don't, can't or wouldn't invest in GM... GM is a joke.
 
Mr.Nick said:
No, Obama saved - or rather - sustained UAW - not GM. Obama kept the union afloat and now the ship is sinking again.

The only people who would contemplate investing in such loony nonsense are progressives, but the majority of progressives don't, can't or wouldn't invest in GM... GM is a joke.
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You have this same animosity with the banks that were bailed out?
 
verax said:
so let me get this right. Obama is being criticized for not saving gm, for saving gm, for gm building automobiles outside the u.s., for saving uaw, for screwing the people in uaw??? When you guys attack every aspect of everything he does from every angle imaginable it kind of illegitimizes your argument.
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it was none of the government's business. The government should not be bailing out any business, bank, or corporation. Thats the issue.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I'm glad you got the math straightened out, now about that context issue.....any improvement?
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Context is fine. GM is in financial trouble all over the world. Too big to fail? rather, too big to survive.
 
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