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Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liars.

Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

No the kind of lies where hes going to save medicare not destroy HUGE LIE vouchers destroy it...the im going to give a huge tax cut to me and my rich buddies and thats going to create jobs and Oh btw im going to cut loopholes but I cant tell you which ones cuz you wont vote for me ...THOSE lies amongst a myriad of others

It would appear you confuse campaign rhetoric with telling lies. I mean how could Ryan’s statements about Medicare be a lie if the proposed changes have not taken effect? It’s like a weather forecaster predicting rain for tomorrow then when it doesn’t rain one calls him a liar…He didn’t lie he was just wrong…NOW if one made a statement concerning something that HAPPENED in the past that was NOT FACTUAL it was a LIE!... BOTH Ryan AND Biden are guilty of this, as are Romney AND Obama… but you can believe whatever you want…
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

No the kind of lies where hes going to save medicare not destroy HUGE LIE vouchers destroy it...the im going to give a huge tax cut to me and my rich buddies and thats going to create jobs and Oh btw im going to cut loopholes but I cant tell you which ones cuz you wont vote for me ...THOSE lies amongst a myriad of others

So you are unable to provide an example of a lie? got it. You lose.

All you are doing is regurgitating the Obama campaign meme. And Obama is the liar here.

What Obama is alleging is completely false. It is only a campaign tactic. To call Romney a liar for not being what Obama is lying about is pretty stupid on your part.

If you cannot tell the difference between campaign exaggerations (on both sides) and lies, the god help you.

I don't think you will find Romney calling DEMs liars because they don't fit the exaggerated claims of the GOP agenda.

Heck, Romney won't even call Obama a liar when Obama is clearly lying about Romney.

For instance the "5 trillion dollar tax cut for the wealthy" is a campaign strategy. It is untrue, but it is acceptable (sadly) to make outlandish claims about what your opponent "is going to do." DEMs engage in this tactic. GOP engages in this tactic. Whether either of them is a LIE depends on whether you are a DEM or a GOP.

However, you will not find the GOP calling the DEM a "liar" when they refute GOP claims.

What you do find - for the first time ever - borne of desperation - is the DEMs calling the GOP a "liar" when the GOP refutes the untrue allegations about themselves.

This is unprecedented in politics.

But, DEMs applaud this further degradation in political discourse.

By these new standards, every single statement of any DEM candidate is an outright LIE.

(and that is closer to the truth than it ought to be.)
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Or maybe this one "It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card...I was there. I voted against him."...REALLY? Joe voted against the two wars...Funny the congressional record doesn't support this:

Afgan U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote
Iraq OnPolitics (washingtonpost.com)

Yeah that's a great new invention Biden came up with...just lie! You should be so proud to have discovered this...:lamo

Really, Dickieboy, really? You're going to use a roll call vote as evidence that a U.S. Senator voted in favor of a specific bill? Really?

Process, people...learn it, understand it!

U.S. Senate: Reference Home > Glossary > roll call vote
roll call vote - A vote in which each senator votes "yea" or "nay" as his or her name is called by the clerk, so that the names of senators voting on each side are recorded. Under the Constitution, a roll call vote must be held if demanded by one-fifth of a quorum of senators present, a minimum of 11.

In other words, the roll call vote is a procedure typically used to count heads yet pass bills that basically would absolve a Senator from directly voting up or down on a bill. As long as a quorum of 11 Senators (1/5th the Senate) call for such a vote and a majority of Senators are "present", the bill passes. Think of it on the lines of why so many Democrats fled Wisconsin into Illinois to avoid voting via this same measure.

In this way, Biden can answer honestly. He didn't vote directly for the bill; he merely voted "present". But so did 97 other U.S. Senators.

Process, ladies and gentlemen...
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Really, Dickieboy, really? You're going to use a roll call vote as evidence that a U.S. Senator voted in favor of a specific bill? Really?

Process, people...learn it, understand it!

Yes, REALLY! Maybe you missed the ‘so that the names of senators voting on each side are recorded’ part of the section you posted…for the record and per my link SJ Res 23 passed on this roll call vote, Biden voted yea/for it (not present or no vote) and it was authorization of power for Iraq…am I missing something
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Really, Dickieboy, really? You're going to use a roll call vote as evidence that a U.S. Senator voted in favor of a specific bill? Really?

Process, people...learn it, understand it!

U.S. Senate: Reference Home > Glossary > roll call vote


In other words, the roll call vote is a procedure typically used to count heads yet pass bills that basically would absolve a Senator from directly voting up or down on a bill. As long as a quorum of 11 Senators (1/5th the Senate) call for such a vote and a majority of Senators are "present", the bill passes. Think of it on the lines of why so many Democrats fled Wisconsin into Illinois to avoid voting via this same measure.

In this way, Biden can answer honestly. He didn't vote directly for the bill; he merely voted "present". But so did 97 other U.S. Senators.

Process, ladies and gentlemen...

Are you actually trying to make the case that Biden didn't support the war?
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Are you actually trying to make the case that Biden didn't support the war?

No. What I'm trying to tell you is "process matters". It's exactly as I stated in my post. Ninety-seven other Senators did the exact same thing where the roll call vote is concerned. They simply responded to their name when called. Doesn't mean they supported the war; doesn't mean they were against it either. It simply means that like students in a classroom, when their name was called that answered "present" - Yea. And when no voice was heard,the clerk marked them as "absent" - Nay.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

No the kind of lies where hes going to save medicare not destroy HUGE LIE vouchers destroy it...the im going to give a huge tax cut to me and my rich buddies and thats going to create jobs and Oh btw im going to cut loopholes but I cant tell you which ones cuz you wont vote for me ...THOSE lies amongst a myriad of others

Here is what the Wall Street Journal says about your contention and Biden's

"On nearly every specific issue on which Mr. Biden attacked, he was demonstrably wrong. The Administration's Medicare actuary really does say that 15% of hospitals will take on operating deficits as a result of ObamaCare's cuts in payments to Medicare providers. The American Enterprise Institute study doesn't say that Mr. Romney's plan will raise taxes on the middle class, and Mr. Ryan's Medicare plan doesn't raise costs for seniors by $6,400. Mr. Biden never even tried to offer a second-term agenda. But this 90 minutes wasn't about an exchange of ideas or a debate over policies. It was a Democratic show of contempt for the opposition, an attempt to claim by repetitive assertion that Messrs. Ryan and Romney are radicals who want to destroy 'the middle class.' Mr. Ryan's cool under assault was a visual rebuttal of that claim, and we certainly know who looked more presidential." --The Wall Street Journal
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

I think most people realize, but seldom remember, that "mockery" and "sarcasm" are weapons of the left. They deploy these weapons on a daily basis. They have been well groomed in the philosophy of Saul Alinsky, even if they didn't know they were being groomed.

Take the Comedy Channell for instance. Why are they popular? Because they mock, ridicule, use sarcasm, and make fun of things. Many people in this country think that is an effective way to deliver an argument. They are so brainwashed in this philosophy, that they consider it "ok" to deploy these weapons, even for the most serious of issues, like Iran, and national security.

Paul Ryan was trying to be serious about a serious situation in Libya, and what did Joe Biden do? He laughed. He was "mocking" his opponent on an issue as serious as the Libya incident, which by the way, Biden lied once again about. Only far left liberals think debators who "mock", "ridicule", and "make fun" of their opponents, win the debate. No one else in the country thinks those tactics are beneficial when what the nation is looking for is answers, not mockery.

Joe Biden couldn't defend the administration's actions over Libya, so he lied, then ridiculed his opponent. It's a staple tactic of Saul Alinsky followers.

Alinsky wrote: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

This is why liberals ridicule people, and it's precisely how ignorant know-nothings like Bill Maher make a living. All they do is mock, and ridicule. They aren't people of intelligence. Joe Biden is not a man of intelligence, and that was clearly on display during the debate. Intelligent debators don't flail their hands in the air, smirk and laugh when they hear something inaccurate, or blatantly ask their audience to "trust me".

He was desperate. He turned to the cameras more than once and said something along the lines of, "Look America, you can trust me." , "trust me America", or "who you gonna trust America, me? Or this guy?". That's the poster child definition of grasping for straws. Those types of questions are desperate, because the Obama campaign is desperate, Joe Biden is desperate, the entire Democratic party is desperate. They have nothing left in the tank but mockery, ridicule, and sarcasm.

And America has had their fill of it.

But think about this. Seriously. Obama and Biden have been the President and Vice President for 4 years now, and Biden was debating like the challenger, not the incumbant. After 4 years of being VP, why is he trying to assure the American people that we can "trust him"???? Makes no sense. He's debating like a challenger, because he's desperate.

It was a desperate plea to the American people, "you can trust me". Joe, you've been the VP for 4 years now, I think Americans know whether or not they can trust you, so what are you saying? It came across completely desperate. Proving that Joe isn't intelligent. Incumbants don't come in to debates assuring people that they can be trusted, because they are the incumbant, people already know whether or not you can be trusted. He's simply not smart. So, what do unintelligent debators do? They mock, ridicule, and use sarcasm, whereas an intelligent debator keeps his cool, and talks seriously about the issue. We all know which man was which in this debate.
 
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Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Yes, REALLY! Maybe you missed the ‘so that the names of senators voting on each side are recorded’ part of the section you posted…for the record and per my link SJ Res 23 passed on this roll call vote, Biden voted yea/for it (not present or no vote) and it was authorization of power for Iraq…am I missing something

Voting on each side merely means "how many Senators are present" at the time the roll is call, i.e., number of "Yeas" - members who answered "PRESENT" - versus number of "Nays" - members who didn't responde and, thus, were "ABSENT".

Perhaps reading the Senate Rules on Voting and Quorum Procedures might help. (See "Summary", page 2 of the attached rules)
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Is that really all you could come up with?

:lamo :lamo :lamo

It's all that's really necessary to comment on a blog post which begins: "Dude totally got Bidened…"

And then rises no higher than saying "Biden grinned at all of Ryan's LIES! It wuz AWESUM!!" In other words, his entire point was that indeed, being an ass is a great way to debate -- and being an ass isn't anything "new."

If this adolescent blog is the best YOU'VE got, then what else is there to say? Especially when the week before, the same guy blasted Romney for essentially doing the same thing Biden did?
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

No the kind of lies where hes going to save medicare not destroy HUGE LIE vouchers destroy it...the im going to give a huge tax cut to me and my rich buddies and thats going to create jobs and Oh btw im going to cut loopholes but I cant tell you which ones cuz you wont vote for me ...THOSE lies amongst a myriad of others

Now you just lied, a choice of a voucher or medicare as it is, is a choice. It is not mandatory to use the voucher, the voucher is a way to being in competition lowering cost. Another lie by you, the tax cut is across the board and is revenue natural by cutting loopholes and deductions that mostly the rich take advantage of.

Now these are real lies, from your lying Obama, and these lies are just the tip of the iceberg.

"Yeah, like I'm going to cut the deficit in half in my first term. And while I'm at it I'm going to close Clubgetmo, and get us out of Afghanistan. And if you pass my trillion dollar stimulus now, unemployment will not go above 8%. You mean those kinda lies."
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Voting on each side merely means "how many Senators are present" at the time the roll is call, i.e., number of "Yeas" - members who answered "PRESENT" - versus number of "Nays" - members who didn't responde and, thus, were "ABSENT".

Perhaps reading the Senate Rules on Voting and Quorum Procedures might help. (See "Summary", page 2 of the attached rules)

Ok, we can get past this disagreement on what ‘roll call vote’ means if you can furnish some evidence where Biden VOTED AGAINST the authorization of force (which is what he proclaimed in the debate)…should be simple enough.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

And after the evidence is provided where Biden voted against AOF please take a minute and explain his response in this interview:

MR. RUSSERT: I want to go back to 2002, because it’s important as to what people were saying then and what the American people were hearing. Here’s Joe Biden about Saddam Hussein: “He’s a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security.”
“We have no choice but to eliminate the threat. This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world.”
“He must be dislodged from his weapons or dislodged from power.” You were emphatic about that.

SEN. BIDEN: That’s right, and I was correct about that. He must be, in fact—and remember the weapons we were talking about. I also said on your show, that’s part of what I said, but not all of what I meant.
MTP Transcript for April 29, 2007 - Meet the Press | NBC News

Since he is now saying he voted against it and was apparently supportive back then wouldn’t that qualify as a ‘flip-flop’?
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Ok, we can get past this disagreement on what ‘roll call vote’ means if you can furnish some evidence where Biden VOTED AGAINST the authorization of force (which is what he proclaimed in the debate)…should be simple enough.

IT will be impossible. DEMs who wanted a political future were falling over themselves to vote for the wars and lamenting that it didn't happen under Clinton so HE could have been the "war president." The only people who were against it were the avowed pacifists.

Biden would - by his nature - wanted to be on the more popular side and if extremely popular would have wanted to be one of the leaders of that opinion.

DEMs found it convenient to say they were "against the war" when the DNC during the Bush years saw that Bush's popularity was going to make it difficult to groom future DEM winning candidates. They then decided to turn Bush's strength against him by saying it was a "war based on LIES" - the first time I ever recall a senator calling a president a liar from the well of the Senate.

At this point, all DEMs suddenly switched their record to having been "against the war" and "fighting the lies about WMD." All blatant lies, but who cares - that is what DEMs do and have always done. Just DEMs being DEMs.

It is unusual for someone in an official capacity to do this however. Mostly they leave their most blatant lies for campaigns where nobody expects absolute truth from either side.

Biden said it to the nation in his official capacity as Vice President of the United States - and he lied.

Live with it. Rejoice in the fact that only the mouth-breathing idiots are excited about it.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

lol... the Obama campaign has been trying to get this "liar" narrative going for quite some time now... only to have it all blow up in their faces as bumblin' Joe tries to remake his voting record and triple-downs on their ludicrous "know nothing" claims on Libya... they'll be sure to let us know when Iran is close to a nuke, though - we can put our trust in Joe (riiiiight...)
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Ryan won the debate.

Not because of what either of them said, but because he was professional and Biden was an arrogant, condescending choad. The only thing I found extremely disappointing in the debate was that Ryan never looked over at Biden and asked him if he thought the issues were really a laughing matter.

If I were Obama, I'd be totally pissed about that VP debate.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Ryan won the debate.

Not because of what either of them said, but because he was professional and Biden was an arrogant, condescending choad. The only thing I found extremely disappointing in the debate was that Ryan never looked over at Biden and asked him if he thought the issues were really a laughing matter.

If I were Obama, I'd be totally pissed about that VP debate.

'Pissed'?...I don't know why...for the POTUS to have expected anything different would have been stupid. If anything Biden was consistent.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar


Biden was the liar in the debate.
He lied about the security requests.
He lied about Romney/Ryan's tax cut.
He lied about his own church.
He lied about voting for the Afgainistan and Iraq wars.

So please tell me how he invented a new way to debate liars when he himself is a liar?
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Ok, we can get past this disagreement on what ‘roll call vote’ means if you can furnish some evidence where Biden VOTED AGAINST the authorization of force (which is what he proclaimed in the debate)…should be simple enough.

I'm not saying he didn't. All I'm saying is a roll call vote isn't a direct vote for or against a piece of legislation. It's a procedural vote that in one way mirrors a re-vote on a bill after the President has exercised his veto power. Just as 2/3 vote is required to overturn a presidential veto, so is a 1/5 vote needed to essentially "pass" a bill out of the Senate via calling the roll without asking for a direct vote on the bill itself. As long as the Senate doesn't object to "the procedure" used, the vote acts as an indirect vote of passage. As such, it allows Senators to absolve themselves publically of saying they voted for or against a piece of legislation.

You can read more of how VP Biden voted on issues related to Iraq here.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

This laughable spin is not going to work libs. These are pre school talking points.

Biden looked like he belonged in a mental hospital. Not in elected office.

Independents were turned off by his bizarre behavior. The red meat MSNBC clowns loved it, but they don't live in reality.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

I'm not saying he didn't. All I'm saying is a roll call vote isn't a direct vote for or against a piece of legislation.
You can read more of how VP Biden voted on issues related to Iraq here.

Ah, so you are not saying he didn't and presumably can't support that he didn't so by default he DID vote for the AOF. Wouldn't this support my assertion that when he state he was 'against' it he lied? Else I await your evidence that he DID NOT vote for the AOF.

Further the various statements in the wiki link (thanks for that) sure seems to indicate that Biden supported the Iraq efforts...but now he is against them...sounds flippity floppity to me...
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Ah, so you are not saying he didn't and presumably can't support that he didn't so by default he DID vote for the AOF. Wouldn't this support my assertion that when he state he was 'against' it he lied? Else I await your evidence that he DID NOT vote for the AOF.

Further the various statements in the wiki link (thanks for that) sure seems to indicate that Biden supported the Iraq efforts...but now he is against them...sounds flippity floppity to me...

I'll await your support for you suggestion that he voted for the war, as opposed to giving the president the AUTHORITY to use force IF NECESSARY. These are two different things that should not be conflated. Congress did not what to tie Bush's hands as he pressed Saddam to cooperate with inspectors and comply with sanctions, so they gave him the big stick. That does not mean that they approved of when and how he used the stick. Biden agreed to give Bush the authority to use force, but he was concerned about Bush's judgment. That's why he tried to get a resolution that only allowed the use of force when all diplomatic means were exhausted.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

I'll await your support for you suggestion that he voted for the war, as opposed to giving the president the AUTHORITY to use force IF NECESSARY. These are two different things that should not be conflated...

You're kidding right?

The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This SURE sounds like it SPECIFICALLY DOESN'T prohibit war...
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm

Maybe you can offer up some evidence that Biden was AGAINST the war and voted AGAINST it back in the day...not after his 'flip flop...:lamo

After reflection, could GWB have initiated the Iraq war WITHOUT AOF? What further legislation was REQUIRED to be voted on that would have allowed Biden to vote against? I understand there could have been a vote on 'Declaration of war' but since it was not voted on it was presumably not required.
 
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Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

I expect a good amount of spin from both sides after a debate such as this but I can usually figure out what really happened by judging the hyperbole the next morning.

If democrats want to believe Biden helped the team by stemming the depression among the grassroots that they were doormats, fair enough. But the real game was among independents and undecided voters and the analysis shows they pretty much thought Biden was disrespectful and contemptuous.

If you want to hyperbolic that into a win, knock yourself out. There's nothing a competitor loves more than a blind opponent.
 
Re: Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liar

Biden looked like a cross between a senile drunk and a petulant child. guess what sort of voter that act appeals to?

Liberal democrat?
 
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