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Biden Claims He Voted Against Afghanistan, Iraq Wars

H. Lee White said:
Biden Claims He Voted Against Afghanistan, Iraq Wars | Washington Free Beacon

Clearly, he voted for both wars.

The obvious questions:
-Did he lie about not voting for the wars, or did he 'misremember'
-Given that one illustrates dishonesty, and the other, incompetence, why do you support putting him back in office?
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Of course he lied. How could one "misremember" voting for a war? But then again, like Joe said in the debate with Ryan, "I mean everything I say."
 
Harshaw said:
As were the other polls, indeed making this one an outlier.
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:lol:

It's like Groundhog Day. You can't have an outlier if you only have one poll of uncommitted voters.
 
iliveonramen said:
It means that truth has left the stage a long time ago. Romney completely reinvented history and his views in one night.

I don't see why Dems are suppose to play to one set of rules while pundits pat Romney on the back for obfuscating, flip flopping, and lying during the first debate.
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You guys keep saying that Romney lied. What did he lie about? Specifics, please.
 
AdamT said:
:lol:

It's like Groundhog Day. You can't have an outlier if you only have one poll of uncommitted voters.
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No, it's like you didn't even read the last several posts. :roll:
 
Harshaw said:
That's just idiocy. It's an outlier because it gave a result considerably out of line with most of the other polls (AP, CNN, CNBC).




Right, because you've been around long enough to make that assessment of someone who had almost 15,000 posts before you ever got here.
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An outlier as far as undecided voters? Would you be willing to back up that claim with evidence? Just show me the many polls of undecided voters that all seem to line up with the exception of this one and I won't refute you.

Also, I was referring to "you" as in the right most side of the political spectrum. I say that because there have been several instances of people on the right flat out denying the reliability of polls that are unfavorable to their goals. I have no idea if you've generally followed that trend, but from what I've seen from your posts, you haven't done anything to be the exception either. And while that could be defined as stereotyping, I'd be willing to bet everything I have to say that you have stereotyped liberals on numerous occasions in all of your 15 thousand posts.
 
frogloe said:
An outlier as far as undecided voters? Would you be willing to back up that claim with evidence? Just show me the many polls of undecided voters that all seem to line up with the exception of this one and I won't refute you.
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No, it's an outlier because it came to a drastically different result from the other polls asking the same question.

As for it being a poll of "undecided voters," well, it really wasn't, as has been established in the thread already.

lso, I was referring to "you" as in the right most side of the political spectrum. I say that because there have been several instances of people on the right flat out denying the reliability of polls that are unfavorable to their goals. I have no idea if you've generally followed that trend, but from what I've seen from your posts, you haven't done anything to be the exception either. And while that could be defined as stereotyping, I'd be willing to bet everything I have to say that you have stereotyped liberals on numerous occasions in all of your 15 thousand posts.
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I have my doubts you were using the general version of "you," especially considering th swipes you take at me here. As a matter of fact, not only have I not questioned the reliability of polls other than this particular outlier, I almost never comment on polls at all. Watching them day to day is an exercise in stupidity.

As for your bet, well, you're free to search, but it would be a pretty broad definition of terms would make you successful in finding what you say. Rather, you'll find on the vast majority of occasions I do not assume anyone thinks anything they don't indicate in a post. Sure, I do from time to time say things like "those on the Left tend to think..." but considering "Left" is a set of ideas -- thoughts -- that's not exactly outrageous, and I tend to be accurate. You will find it a very rare thing that I do what you say you did here. But you are, of course, welcome to try to discover where I did. Let me know what you find.
 
H. Lee White said:
Biden Claims He Voted Against Afghanistan, Iraq Wars | Washington Free Beacon

Clearly, he voted for both wars.

The obvious questions:
-Did he lie about not voting for the wars, or did he 'misremember'
-Given that one illustrates dishonesty, and the other, incompetence, why do you support putting him back in office?
Click to expand...

Biden lied. Or he's getting senile. I don't think it's senile as he can remember the loss of part of his family and bring it up quickly against Ryan's car quip.

Take your pick.
 
AdamT said:
I agree with your analysis. Bottom line, in view of the polls, is that Romney beat Obama worse than Biden beat Ryan. In addition, presidential debates are more impactful than VP debates. My guess is that the VP debate will act as a buffer to prevent Romney from gaining further ground, but it won't do much to help Obama make up the ground he's already lost.
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Here is a contradiction, you state VP debates have very little impact. Then you state the VP debate will prevent Romney form gaining further ground. VP debates historically have no impact to move the needle, for either side. Thus it's up to Romney or Obama to win this election. At the moment Romney has the momentum, if Romney does well in the next debate that will add fuel to his momentum. And I suspect Romney will do well based on this whole Libya scandal, burning of our flags, and of mock Obama dummies. This does not do well for Obama. I would say Obama is on the ropes and all Romney needs is one good hit and Obama is out.
 
zimmer said:
Sending troops to war is the most important vote of any Congressman or Senator's career. The most important.
Now...
Joe clearly did vote for both wars, the problem is... he doesn't know it.
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Then clearly he should not be VP.
 
Harshaw said:
No, it's an outlier because it came to a drastically different result from the other polls asking the same question.
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It's an idiotic statement no matter how many times you make it. It's the only poll of undecided voters. There is no apples-to-apples comparison so it can't be an outlier.
 
iliveonramen said:
It means that truth has left the stage a long time ago. Romney completely reinvented history and his views in one night.

I don't see why Dems are suppose to play to one set of rules while pundits pat Romney on the back for obfuscating, flip flopping, and lying during the first debate.
Click to expand...

Anyone surprised that Democrat partisans who raged that Romney lied because they have a study that disagrees with Romney's study, are indifferent to and defending of Joe Biden not just outright lying about war votes, but doing so what raging explaining he is superior to Ryan because Ryan cast the same votes - as Biden deliberate lied of his own same votes.

Changing stances on issues is not a lie. Claiming Democrat studies contradict Republican studies is not a lie. But raging that unlike your opponent you voted against the wars when he did is the most pure form of intolerable lies.
 
Born Free said:
Here is a contradiction, you state VP debates have very little impact. Then you state the VP debate will prevent Romney form gaining further ground.
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That's not a contradiction. I don't see temporarily freezing Romney's post-debate surge as a big impact. It didn't shift the momentum to Obama.
 
AdamT said:
It's an idiotic statement no matter how many times you make it. It's the only poll of undecided voters. There is no apples-to-apples comparison so it can't be an outlier.
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Yeah. Good job snipping my next sentence, which goes directly to your reply.
 
Harshaw said:
Yeah. Good job snipping my next sentence, which goes directly to your reply.
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I snipped it because it's irrelevant. Whether or not you take issue with how they defined undecided, there is still no equivalent poll to compare it to and thus it cannot, by definition, be an outlier.
 
Harshaw said:
No, it's an outlier because it came to a drastically different result from the other polls asking the same question.

As for it being a poll of "undecided voters," well, it really wasn't, as has been established in the thread already.



I have my doubts you were using the general version of "you," especially considering th swipes you take at me here. As a matter of fact, not only have I not questioned the reliability of polls other than this particular outlier, I almost never comment on polls at all. Watching them day to day is an exercise in stupidity.

As for your bet, well, you're free to search, but it would be a pretty broad definition of terms would make you successful in finding what you say. Rather, you'll find on the vast majority of occasions I do not assume anyone thinks anything they don't indicate in a post. Sure, I do from time to time say things like "those on the Left tend to think..." but considering "Left" is a set of ideas -- thoughts -- that's not exactly outrageous, and I tend to be accurate. You will find it a very rare thing that I do what you say you did here. But you are, of course, welcome to try to discover where I did. Let me know what you find.
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First, it was a poll of undecided voters, you just don't agree with the polls definition of undecided voters. I can't change that.

Second, I really was referring to "you" in the sense of the right side of the political spectrum, but I realize at this point that probably less clear than it should have been. I apologize. I also do apologize for stereotyping you, although I still stand by the idea that you probably aren't clean of the misdeed either.

On a final note, I don't generally follow polls either as they normally just flop in circles until the actual election takes place. It's like trying to predict if a coin is going to land on its head side or tail side.
 
AdamT said:
I snipped it because it's irrelevant. Whether or not you take issue with how they defined undecided, there is still no equivalent poll to compare it to and thus it cannot, by definition, be an outlier.
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Except when you're hanging your entire argument on it being a poll of "undecideds," and their definition of "undecideds" shows they really aren't, sure. No relevance at all.
 
Harshaw said:
Except when you're hanging your entire argument on it being a poll of "undecideds," and their definition of "undecideds" shows they really aren't, sure. No relevance at all.
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That's right -- it's a lame attempt at deflection because you know perfectly well that you are wrong, but are constitutionally incapable of admitting it.
 
frogloe said:
First, it was a poll of undecided voters, you just don't agree with the polls definition of undecided voters. I can't change that.

Second, I really was referring to "you" in the sense of the right side of the political spectrum, but I realize at this point that probably less clear than it should have been. I apologize. I also do apologize for stereotyping you, although I still stand by the idea that you probably aren't clean of the misdeed either.

On a final note, I don't generally follow polls either as they normally just flop in circles until the actual election takes place. It's like trying to predict if a coin is going to land on its head side or tail side.
Click to expand...

I have never claimed not to have a bias. But that doesn't mean I have a habit of arguing from fallacy, as your description would have me do.
 
Harshaw said:
I have never claimed not to have a bias. But that doesn't mean I have a habit of arguing from fallacy, as your description would have me do.
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I never said you argued from fallacy, I said that you probably have made assumptions of a character's beliefs based of the side of the political spectrum that they align with.
 
AdamT said:
That's right -- it's a lame attempt at deflection because you know perfectly well that you are wrong, but are constitutionally incapable of admitting it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, OK, Adam. I'm perfectly happy to let anyone else draw their own conclusions, especially over the last couple of posts. :roll: And if you can link to posts where you've conceded any substantive point, then by all means, do so.
 
frogloe said:
I never said you argued from fallacy, I said that you probably have made assumptions of a character's beliefs based of the side of the political spectrum that they align with.
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But if I argued from that, as I would have to if I posted on it, it would be a fallacy.
 
I think what really needs to happen here is examining both of their voting records. Yes, Biden made those votes mention in the OP. Going through his record, he did not vote for any additional funding. Biden is not senile, I think he is making his claim as "after the fact" that he voted for those bills. So without further ado, here are their voting records. Have a look for yourself.

Vice President Joseph 'Joe' Robinette Biden, Jr.'s Voting Records

Representative Paul D. Ryan's Voting Records

Come on, do I really have to do everyone's homework here? Yes, an article points out 2 votes that Biden made. I am much more interested in EVERYTHING both men have voted on. I want to see how their votes match up with my views. Biden still has my support, even though I opposed the wars. There are more issues than that I have my eye on. Forget the fact that politicians are liars. We already know and agree on that.
 
nota bene said:
My current fave is that the murder of Ambassador Stevens and the three others is somehow only an issue because of Romney and Ryan. :roll:

And I still say Hillary Clinton would have already fallen on her sword if she had any honor.
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Boy would I have loved to be a fly on the wall watching Hillary Rodham Clinton rip Joe Biden's balls off the day after the debate.
 
American said:
Boy would I have loved to be a fly on the wall watching Hillary Rodham Clinton rip Joe Biden's balls off the day after the debate.
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You seem to have a fixation with Hillary fondling Biden's balls.
 
iguanaman said:
And the fact that this partisan bickering helps only our enemys is lost to all of you. Or is it?
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On the contrary - getting rid of weak, ineffectual leaders who care less about security issues than they do election results only strenghtens the couintry and hinders our enemies.
 
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