Lack of civility impedes progress

Why are so many blind to the fact that planning, cooperating and acting civilized will get you significantly further? Examples range from traffic jams caused by people not leaving sufficient room for merging to the disorderly behavior of inner-city high school students or what's taking place in the Middle East.

This topic arose when my wife started a temporary teaching position at a local high school. Out of 32 students, she has about 5 who display respect and obedience. The rest display the stereotypical behavior of ghetto punks. You look at their behavior, learned from their parents and peers, and it comes as no surprise why they have the highest unemployment rate. In fact, the ranking of ethnicities by unemployment is precisely the reverse of how I would rank ethnicities (on average) according to their value of respecting others, or even emphasis on education.

I anticipate someone saying "that's just how teenagers naturally are." However, I have an issue with that statement. The ones like that come from a result of sorry parenting, but that doesn't excuse their behavior and it needs to be fixed before they become a burden to society as adults which cause trouble or draw unemployment as a result of their own sorry actions. I propose that if we want to avoid this, the students that can't respect teachers need to be shipped off to boot camps and let the teachers help the good students go as far as they can. This "no child left behind" idea is moronic, because you let the bad kids cause the good kids to suffer. Furthermore, the teacher is put in a lose-lose situation where they either give most of the kids the poor grades they deserve, in which case they wrongly get blamed, or they are forced to set the bar much lower than it should be and the students get the idea that what they're doing is acceptable.

I would argue that there is a striking similarity between the inner-city schools and the Middle East. That is, the violence and disorderly behavior is a result of not just poor leadership, but also the lack of fear of punishment or consequences. The tap on the wrist that the students receive for unacceptable behavior is much like Obama being soft and apologetic to the Middle East when they attack Americans. Both groups not only cause destruction, but they do it to those trying to help them. We need to be significantly more assertive and say "If you want some help then you better be respectful and follow any legitimate rules I set." Instead, we have become tolerant to a level which baffles me.

I'm not sure why my post ended up in this topic. I initiated the thread under General Political Discussion. How do I move it or request it be moved?

Mathematician said:

Why are so many blind to the fact that planning, cooperating and acting civilized will get you significantly further? Examples range from traffic jams caused by people not leaving sufficient room for merging to the disorderly behavior of inner-city high school students or what's taking place in the Middle East.

This topic arose when my wife started a temporary teaching position at a local high school. Out of 32 students, she has about 5 who display respect and obedience. The rest display the stereotypical behavior of ghetto punks. You look at their behavior, learned from their parents and peers, and it comes as no surprise why they have the highest unemployment rate. In fact, the ranking of ethnicities by unemployment is precisely the reverse of how I would rank ethnicities (on average) according to their value of respecting others, or even emphasis on education.

I anticipate someone saying "that's just how teenagers naturally are." However, I have an issue with that statement. The ones like that come from a result of sorry parenting, but that doesn't excuse their behavior and it needs to be fixed before they become a burden to society as adults which cause trouble or draw unemployment as a result of their own sorry actions. I propose that if we want to avoid this, the students that can't respect teachers need to be shipped off to boot camps and let the teachers help the good students go as far as they can. This "no child left behind" idea is moronic, because you let the bad kids cause the good kids to suffer. Furthermore, the teacher is put in a lose-lose situation where they either give most of the kids the poor grades they deserve, in which case they wrongly get blamed, or they are forced to set the bar much lower than it should be and the students get the idea that what they're doing is acceptable.

I would argue that there is a striking similarity between the inner-city schools and the Middle East. That is, the violence and disorderly behavior is a result of not just poor leadership, but also the lack of fear of punishment or consequences. The tap on the wrist that the students receive for unacceptable behavior is much like Obama being soft and apologetic to the Middle East when they attack Americans. Both groups not only cause destruction, but they do it to those trying to help them. We need to be significantly more assertive and say "If you want some help then you better be respectful and follow any legitimate rules I set." Instead, we have become tolerant to a level which baffles me.

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why would we expect children, who were raised in the projects, to appreciate the virtues of civility, cooperation and planning
within the world in which they have been raised, those are not characteristics which advance one's personal interests
there is no one to look after and guide them toward civil behavior; what they understand is respect which is 'earned' by brute force
to cooperate, to maintain civil order, one must be willing to subordinate their own interests for those of the group. that is the opposite of what is learned in the streets, where the strongest survive and thrive. those who are willing to subordinate, not so much
i am confident planning does occur. but planning for purposes of exploitation rather than cooperation. only the most enlightened are able to recognize the benefits of long term success resulting from education. and fewer yet act on that understanding. they are the outliers, who tend not to be well received among their community peers. those who aspire to a good education are seen by those among their cohort as trying to escape a destiny the balance realize they are unlikely to leave. then, how does one both fit in and become educated? some do so, but it is all too rare

but this is not a racial issue. certainly a disproportionate number of the african-American community tend to be without an understanding about what it takes to truly succeed in America. likely the same disproportion who are subject to incarceration. on the other hand asian minorities are disproportionately under-represented in the negative columns relative to crime, education and financial accomplishment. and i believe that contrast answers your question
it is a matter of cultural values that are transmitted from parent to child. your wife will not be able to effect that change, and no school or teacher should be expected to
this is a problem that had its genesis in slavery and jim crow. in the black culture, the matriarch is often the dominant person within the family. it devolved into that circumstance by necessity after our forefathers felt it acceptable to break up family bonds for personal profit. it devolved to that point when our schools were separate and anything but equal. and the culture remains disadvantaged today because we cannot change in a few years what was broken over many centuries
my wife is a retired teacher, who has been repeatedly called back to teach. she shares your wife's frustration at this problem. one which seems to have no good answer
let me offer a personal observation. as a military brat i attended schools in the 50's that were integrated - just like the military itself. and there were no differentiations by color then, as their are today, half a century later. and the reason is those students of color had the same white/majority values. they conducted themselves like the majority students. they achieved like the majority students. because they came from homes that valued civility, respect, planning and cooperation. the military required it of their fathers. and their fathers required it of their children, my fellow minority students
i was raised in a bubble, knowing nothing of segregation, until my senior year, when attending a public high school in the south, the year desegregation of schools was effected by the courts
i share this to buttress my argument to say, this is not an issue of color. this is an issue of culture. one which our nation desperately needs to change