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Shiang's take on the debates: No knockout punches but Obama beat himself.

shiang said:
I agree with the popular consensus. Romney did a little better, but no knockout punches.

I thought overall the the debate was rather boring. There's nothing big, nothing new. Romney did a good job presenting a solid debate on his platform and distancing himself from his bad image. It's depressing to see Obama there. He seemed exhausted, dispirited, unconfident, and frankly ill prepared. If it you looked at just what they said and their policies it would've been closer to a draw, but who would've thought Romney would be more articulate and better at connecting with people. Bottom line Romney seemed more energetic and prepared for a debate. Wouldn't be a stretch to call it a win.

If this was a boxing match, Romney would be the one boxing and throwing punches. Obama was just trying to absorb punches and not get knocked out. Obama seemed to just throw a punch, Romney blocks and punches back, then Obama just flusters when there are perfectly good moves. In short Romney played to win and Obama played not to lose. If you told me Romney paid off Obama to lose I'd believe ya. Romney hardly delivered a perfect debate, there's nothing that really "sticks" or would put the country at it's feet, he made statements that made him vulnerable and could've trapped himself - Obama just didn't do it.

Here's a few key opportunities Obama really missed:


Debt:

When Romney attacked Obama on deficit spending. Obama simply stated that he was handed an extremely bad economy and a high deficit to begin with and that he's saved 1 trillion in waste, and cited a few small examples. In short he pretty much agreed. He would've done much better had he explained that deficit spending was highest in 2009 and has came DOWN every year since then.

History of Deficits and Surpluses In The United States

He could've also explained that the 16 trillion number was either the projected debt for the next year, or a reference to the debt ceiling and it's 1 trillion inflated from the actual current debt. He could've also explained what the 15/16 trillion number actually means. Two thirds of the international debt is borrowed on behalf of the private sector, meaning the government is "only" around 5 trillion in debt from it's spending.

Biggest Holders of US Government Debt - Yahoo! Finance
United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (look at per-capita) - western nations are all borrowing and asian nations are lending.

Obama also made no mention of the 10% increase in GDP (when he inherited a dropping gdp)


Business, Small Business, Jobs

When Romney said if small business pay less in taxes, then they can hire more workers. Obama could've hit it out of the park by agreeing and then following with the fact that when business hire workers, thats corporate spending and is tax deductible in the first place.


Obamacare

Two points Obama should've made.

First, when Romney attacked Obama on having the board and should leave it up to all the doctors in the country. Obama should've said something like "just ask around, most of the doctors in the country say Obamacare is a step in the right direction".

Second, when Romney said lets just leave it to the states. Obama should've jumped on him and said if the federal government didn't do anything then that's just keeping status quo. He should then ask Romney how exactly are all the states suppose to overhaul our medical system and weather he's going to have a federal mandate for the states, and if so, how's that any different/better than just passing national legislation.

Romney exceeded expectations, and Obama was just plain disappointing last night. He had good numbers to back up great statements and just didn't make them.

Grats to Romney I think he should gain a point or two, but won't be taking the lead just yet. I believe in Obama's policies, but if the next 3 debates are like last night's the race will be extremely close. Not sure what the strategy for Obama was coming into this debate, but whatever it is, it didn't seem to work.

A note: Romney was really pushing it when talking over Jim Lehrer, the moderator. He did seem a little desperate to always have the last word.

I hope you guys think this is overall a good assessment of the debates.
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Sorry, but you can write a novel and it won't change the outcome of the debate, the Obama record is indefensible and most thinking individuals understand that. It is the Obama record that will make Obama a one term President. Aside from the facts presented last night, the American people could have turned off the sound, looked at the screen, and see who was Presidential. Then read the transcript and find out who had the substance.

The Obamabots are going to spin this as being one debate. That might be the only true statement an Obamabot has ever made however this debate was a defining debate, a true leader vs an incompetent empty suit.
 
joko104 said:
Are you serious? Obama used JOHN KERRY as debate coach? OMG, Kerry is academic Zippy Pinhead central station!
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please next time try to write in better english and proper syntax... you may want to go to the Dem side if you are going to call Kerry a Zippy Pinhead.. you make the GOP side look juvenile ... you're hurting the cause..
 
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joko104 said:
Are you serious? Obama used JOHN KERRY as debate coach? OMG, Kerry is academic Zippy Pinhead central station!
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There comes a time when even the best debate coach can only put lipstick on a pig but the pig remains the pig. No debate coach can change the Obama results and it is the results that should be the focus not the quality of the debate coach.
 
shiang said:
Put you and bronson on ignore, should increase my life expectancy. ;)
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I know.. me and Bronson are "non cartoon watchers"... it may be in your best interest I agree..
 
Romney intimidates Obama......it showed pretty clearly last night.

Anyone that is knowledgable as Romney is, equally well spoken (as Romney is), educated (as Romney is), and utilizes facts (as Romney did), intimidates Obama.

Obama is used to being able to condescend to reporters, avoid tough questions, or chastise reporters who ask tough questions. He's not used to someone challenging him that is knowledgable, and not an Obamabot.

The left wing media should rethink their treatment of Obama, because never asking him tough questions, and never challenging him in public, has weakened Obama's ability to win an argument. Obama is good at reading speeches off teleprompters, and changing his accent and cadance in front of some black pastors. He's excellent when he gets to do all the talking. But when faced in a debate, he stammers, stumbles, and has trouble defending himself.

We've got ourselves one heck of a "speech maker in chief" that's for sure. Not so grand at thinking on his feet.....

Romney showed last night why he was such an effective Executive. He's decisive, he's knowledgable, he's concise, and he acts like he's in charge (which he was). Americans respond to that, because we want a leader. We don't want an empty suit who's awesome at reading a speech someone else wrote. We want a leader who can be decisive about the direction this country needs to go in in order to turn our economy around.
 
The Obamabots are really digging deep to make excuses for Obama's ass spanking. :rofl

"Obama beat himself"

"He lost on purpose"
 
Masada said:
Romney intimidates Obama......it showed pretty clearly last night.

Anyone that is knowledgable as Romney is, equally well spoken (as Romney is), educated (as Romney is), and utilizes facts (as Romney did), intimidates Obama.

Obama is used to being able to condescend to reporters, avoid tough questions, or chastise reporters who ask tough questions. He's not used to someone challenging him that is knowledgable, and not an Obamabot.

The left wing media should rethink their treatment of Obama, because never asking him tough questions, and never challenging him in public, has weakened Obama's ability to win an argument. Obama is good at reading speeches off teleprompters, and changing his accent and cadance in front of some black pastors. He's excellent when he gets to do all the talking. But when faced in a debate, he stammers, stumbles, and has trouble defending himself.

We've got ourselves one heck of a "speech maker in chief" that's for sure. Not so grand at thinking on his feet.....

Romney showed last night why he was such an effective Executive. He's decisive, he's knowledgable, he's concise, and he acts like he's in charge (which he was). Americans respond to that, because we want a leader. We don't want an empty suit who's awesome at reading a speech someone else wrote. We want a leader who can be decisive about the direction this country needs to go in in order to turn our economy around.
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Obama's not normally bad at debates, leas not four years ago. Both his speech at the DNC and this debate show's he's took a beating the last four years dealing with everything. At his best he would've out debated Romney last night.
 
shiang said:
Obama's not normally bad at debates, leas not four years ago. Both his speech at the DNC and this debate show's he's had a beating the last four years dealing with everything. At his best he would've out debated Romney last night.
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its funny when people say Obamas good at anything.. the guy sucks at just about everything.. what happened was he finally met someone that wasnt going to allow him to lie...that ended it for Obama... Obama knows he is a fraud if hes honest
 
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shiang said:
Obama's not normally bad at debates, leas not four years ago. Both his speech at the DNC and this debate show's he's had a beating the last four years dealing with everything. At his best he would've out debated Romney last night.
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When his talking points were new, he was great. But, now that his talking points are 4+ years old? That's another story.
 
Travis007 said:
its funny when people say Obamas good at anything.. the guys sucks at just about everything.. what happened was he finally met someone that wasnt going to allow him to lie...that ended it for Obama... Obama knows he is a fraud if hes honest
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Obama always looks good, because he never gets challenged. The press sure as hell isn't going to challenge his dumb ass. Last night...he finally got challenged.
 
shiang said:
Obama's not normally bad at debates, leas not four years ago. Both his speech at the DNC and this debate show's he's took a beating the last four years dealing with everything. At his best he would've out debated Romney last night.
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Coulda, woulda, shoulda......

Hey, if that's your excuse, it's pretty lame. Most people, including me, cant stand Monday morning quarterbacking, and coulda woulda shoulda excuses. It's pretty pathetic.

Obama knows what's at stake, and his lack of preparation is a pretty clear indicator that either 1. He didn't care, or 2. He's simply outmatched in debating Romney.

Obama cannot come into debates waving his 4 year record around, it's too bad. He really doesn't have a single thing to hang his hat on. Over half the country wants Obamacare repealed, so he can't talk about that too much. Incomes have dropped under his term, can't talk about incomes. Unemployment is still above 8%, so you can't talk too much about job creation. Middle East is blowing up, so you can't talk too much about foreign policy.

I mean, he's crippled. And it's all his own fault.
 
Conservative said:
Sorry, but you can write a novel and it won't change the outcome of the debate, the Obama record is indefensible and most thinking individuals understand that. It is the Obama record that will make Obama a one term President. Aside from the facts presented last night, the American people could have turned off the sound, looked at the screen, and see who was Presidential. Then read the transcript and find out who had the substance.

The Obamabots are going to spin this as being one debate. That might be the only true statement an Obamabot has ever made however this debate was a defining debate, a true leader vs an incompetent empty suit.
Click to expand...

Actually, Obama supporters surprisingly acknowledge the poor performance of Obama and even praise Romney on skill, though dispute his claims.

Republicans better cool it on all the gloating. Kerry smeared Bush in the first debate too. Obama and Romney both are best when back to the wall, and Obama is one of the most skilled political gutter street fighters this country's ever seen. He came from nowhere to president at astonishing speed and none gave him a chance against Hilliary, plus 75% of media is still his cheering section.

As Republicans now gloatingly raise Romney to the status of debate-god and Democrats agree to push Obama's expectations thru the floor, be ready for Obama to come back as the pure Chicago-style bare knuckles political brawler that took him from zero to president faster than anyone in American history.

This isn't over. The campaign has now finally begun between the candidates, fighting for the championship of the world. When its over, one will rule our empire and the other will be nothing.

It ain't over until it's over. Republicans better back off the gloating and declaring victory. Its still Obama's election to win or lose.
 
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Masada said:
Coulda, woulda, shoulda......

Hey, if that's your excuse, it's pretty lame. Most people, including me, cant stand Monday morning quarterbacking, and coulda woulda shoulda excuses. It's pretty pathetic.

Obama knows what's at stake, and his lack of preparation is a pretty clear indicator that either 1. He didn't care, or 2. He's simply outmatched in debating Romney.

Obama cannot come into debates waving his 4 year record around, it's too bad. He really doesn't have a single thing to hang his hat on. Over half the country wants Obamacare repealed, so he can't talk about that too much. Incomes have dropped under his term, can't talk about incomes. Unemployment is still above 8%, so you can't talk too much about job creation. Middle East is blowing up, so you can't talk too much about foreign policy.

I mean, he's crippled. And it's all his own fault.
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He was crippled when he showed up in 2007.

Everyone was afraid of Obama, because he's black.
 
shiang said:
Obama's not normally bad at debates, leas not four years ago. Both his speech at the DNC and this debate show's he's took a beating the last four years dealing with everything. At his best he would've out debated Romney last night.
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Wrong, his record is something he can't hide. Obama was built to campaign off an empty white board. That board today is filled with red numbers that he cannot run from. What you saw last night is what an independent media should have been doing for the past four years, disecting the last four years. He wasn't prepared for the job and last night showed it. I have been vindicated.
 
shiang said:
Was Kerry the dummy for Obama's practice sessions? THAT would explain a lot.
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Cult Members always find a scapegoat to excuse their Messiah's failures
 
joko104 said:
Actually, Obama supporters surprisingly acknowledge the poor performance of Obama and even praise Romney on skill, though dispute his claims.

Republicans better cool it on all the gloating. Kerry smeared Bush in the first debate too. Obama and Romney both are best when back to the wall, and Obama is one of the most skilled political gutter street fighters this country's ever seen. He came from nowhere to president at astonishing speed and none gave him a chance against Hilliary, plus 75% of media is still his cheering section.

As Republicans now gloatingly raise Romney to the status of debate-god and Democrats agree to push Obama's expectations thru the floor, be ready for Obama to come back as the pure Chicago-style bare knuckles political brawler that took him from zero to president faster than anyone in American history.

This isn't over. The campaign has now finally begun between the candidates, fighting for the championship of the world. When its over, one will rule our empire and the other will be nothing.

It ain't over until it's over. Republicans better back off the gloating and declaring victory. Its still Obama's election to win or lose.
Click to expand...

There's not much "gloating" that I've seen. But, so what if there is?
 
Masada said:
Coulda, woulda, shoulda......

Hey, if that's your excuse, it's pretty lame. Most people, including me, cant stand Monday morning quarterbacking, and coulda woulda shoulda excuses. It's pretty pathetic.

Obama knows what's at stake, and his lack of preparation is a pretty clear indicator that either 1. He didn't care, or 2. He's simply outmatched in debating Romney.

Obama cannot come into debates waving his 4 year record around, it's too bad. He really doesn't have a single thing to hang his hat on. Over half the country wants Obamacare repealed, so he can't talk about that too much. Incomes have dropped under his term, can't talk about incomes. Unemployment is still above 8%, so you can't talk too much about job creation. Middle East is blowing up, so you can't talk too much about foreign policy.

I mean, he's crippled. And it's all his own fault.
Click to expand...

Obama's not even sort of crippled. He got a bloody lip. Round one.
 
apdst said:
There's not much "gloating" that I've seen. But, so what if there is?
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Because it is foolish and dangerous. I know well enough in fighting that slugging the other guy and bloodying him doesn't mean the fight it won. It means the other guy's blood is boiling and he's coming back with all he's got.

The expectations for Obama were exorbitantly high. Low for Romney. Now this has reversed.

I suspect the media, most overwhelming pro-Obama, will erase most of the victory before the next debate, and everyone now thinks Obama should fight back - meaning Obama can now be vicious without being accused of being non-presidential. A real bad mistake to consider Obama down and out.
 
Bronson said:
Cult Members always find a scapegoat to excuse their Messiah's failures
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Yea its Kerrys fault... under the bus for Kerry..
 
joko104 said:
Obama's not even sort of crippled. He got a bloody lip. Round one.
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he's crippled..... Obama lost his swagger... its OVER... Obama was reduced from a deity to a fraud in 1.5 hours..

Romney knocked the fairy dust off the Kenyan Fraud..
 
joko104 said:
Actually, Obama supporters surprisingly acknowledge the poor performance of Obama and even praise Romney on skill, though dispute his claims.

Republicans better cool it on all the gloating. Kerry smeared Bush in the first debate too. Obama and Romney both are best when back to the wall, and Obama is one of the most skilled political gutter street fighters this country's ever seen. He came from nowhere to president at astonishing speed and none gave him a chance against Hilliary, plus 75% of media is still his cheering section.

As Republicans now gloatingly raise Romney to the status of debate-god and Democrats agree to push Obama's expectations thru the floor, be ready for Obama to come back as the pure Chicago-style bare knuckles political brawler that took him from zero to president faster than anyone in American history.

This isn't over. The campaign has now finally begun between the candidates, fighting for the championship of the world. When its over, one will rule our empire and the other will be nothing.

It ain't over until it's over. Republicans better back off the gloating and declaring victory. Its still Obama's election to win or lose.
Click to expand...

ya know, I actually agree with your analysis. Republicans can't get "over confident". Obama is very skilled, and knows how to get down in the trenches, I agree.

However, I am seeing something different. In 2008, Obama had no record he had to defend, now he does, and last night was a pretty shocking indicator that even Obama knows he can't defend his 4 year record very vigorously, or else he would have.

There's only one avenue for Obama to take, and that's attacking Romney. He can't defend his own record, so he will most likely go on a full on assault of Romney in the next debate.

Romney really diffused some of Obama's guns last night. How? By pointing out the one thing Obama should be able to brag about accomplishing (Obamacare), wasn't passed on a bi-partisan basis. So, Obama cannot talk about reaching across the isle. His crowning achievment was passed without a single Republican vote. Romney effectively disarmed Obama on the issue, and made himself look more Presidential in the process.

Your assessment is pretty good though, Republicans better not get cocky. Sometimes a wounded boxer is the most dangerous one. I just think Romney walloped Obama last night, and he didn't have to deploy his entire arsenal to do so. That's what the Obama campaign better watch out for, Romney still has half a dozen issues to take Obama to task on......
 
joko104 said:
Obama's not even sort of crippled. He got a bloody lip. Round one.
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He is crippled, but not because of the debate. He's crippled because his policies haven't been very effective. Did you read my post?

Obama doesn't have a defining issue he can trot out and say, "look what I've done, vote for me again".

I gave you examples. The one issue Obama should be able to taut (obamacare), half the country wants to repeal it, and as Romney pointed out most effectively, Obama got it passed without a single Republican vote. So, if Obama talks too much about Obamacare, it gives Romney the opportunity to remind the American people that half the country wants it repealed, and that Obama crammed it down their throats without a single Republican vote!

If Obama talks too much about spending, it gives Romney the opportunity to remind America that Obama promised he would cut the deficit in half in his first term, but instead gave us $6 Trillion in new debt.

If Obama talks too much about foreign policy, it gives Romney the opportunity to criticize Obama over his handling of Libya, and how Obama encouraged the Arab Spring which has led to the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power in Egypt. Along with all the other turmoil.

If Obama talks too much about job creation, it gives Romney an opportunity to remind America that fewer people are working today than when Obama took office.

If Obama talks the economy, it gives Romney to point out trepid GDP growth, unemployment still above 8%, and median incomes dropping $4300 under Obama's term.

LIke I said, Obama is hamstringed on so many issues. He doesn't know how to defend himself, because it comes across as foolish to say the economy is better now than it was 4 years ago. It's foolish to say Obama's foreign policy of "leading from behind" is working. It's foolish to say you have a stellar job creation record, because we all know the real numbers. It's foolish to say that you support oil drilling, when public land drilling is down 50% under your term. It's foolish to brag about Obamacare when you know that half the country wants it repealed. It's foolish to talk about Medicare, because you stripped $716 Billion out of it.

Romney has Obama over a barrell on so many issues. We'll see if Romney has that killer instinct and really takes Obama to task the way he needs to......
 
rocket88 said:
Was Jesus in the debate last night? Must have missed that.
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No, only the false Prophet was there last night, someone who believes it was beneath him to be put on the same stage with a commoner and how dare him point out "my" record.
 
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