Wake the **** up [NSFW]

Re: Wake the **** up

shiang said:

15-10 = 7

7 (acording to him)/3 = 1.8

yup some Republicans are just as dumb.

Ok by percentage Obama has ran up slightly more debt than Bush rate wise.

Bush started with about 5 trillion and ended with a little higher than 10 trillion so that's 100% increase

Obama started with a little over 10 trillion and is now at 15 trillion is 50%

Assuming he aquires the same % rate of debt (which he shouldn't as the economy gets better so there's more revenue, and less spending needed) he would acure 125%.

1.5x1.5 = 2.25 or 1.25 increase, about the same as Bush.

Click to expand...

Instead of working with voodoo numbers and magic, how about the real deal?

PresidentialDebt.org - U.S. National Deby by Presidential Term

Obama is the US's biggest spender. No matter how you twist and turn it, you can't weasel him out of this one. If you want to talk % and make Obama look good, do it with the link I gave you. don't work with the numbers, they are not in your favor. They are against you. Obama did more than twice the amount of debt, in money, in half the time. Period. There is nothing else to be discussed.

The ratios for Obama's increase in spending are indeed, better, than those for Bush. Who would have thought? well, it is true since he started off the bat with a 3.9 tril dollar budget and only added a bit more over the years.

How else can we see that Obama is the biggest spender? Because 3months ago, the ratio between GDP and debt got past 100%.

If you look at the link I gave you at the 4th column (Gross domestic product), Bush increased the debt/GDP ratio by 7-8% in all his years, except the last one. From 57.8% to 65.6%.
In his last year, 2008, he increased the debt/GDP ratio from 65.6% to 74.1%. So it took him 7 years to increase the debt/GDP ratio by 7% and then in the last year, he pushed another 8%. So total, 15-16% increase in the debt/GDP ratio.

Obama increased the debt/GDP ratio from 74.1% to 101%. That is a 26% increase in debt/GDP ratio in 3.5 years... because the last track is from the summer.

So where Obama shines is the fact that his spending increase in the budged increased at a lower rate, %-wise, than Bush. But he did spend the most money, in the least amount of time. => Added the most debt, lost the most revenue from taxes and decreased the middle class.

If there's a 5% tax hike on salary over 250k/year AND a tax hike for the 15% on Capital Gains to at least 20%, money invested back in the economy would be tax deductable. Our national GDP is 15+ Trillion right now, this should be cover about 40% or 6 Trillion, 5% of that is 300 Billion. As you can see even with this small tax hike our deficit spending is 1.5 trillion so it'll only cover 20%. ...but good luck getting that passed to begin with.

This is our current national budget break down:
NRS News: US Nat'l Debt $16 Trillion & Fed Deficit $1.5 Trillion Projected - Manufacturing Base Dwindling

The easiest places to cut would be national defense budge down to 10% from 20%
Unemployment costs would go down obiously as unemployment goes down
Reguarding Social Security, retirement age has to be raised as people start living longer.
We have to make medicine cheaper and more affordable by improving efficiency, and reducing fraud, to cut down on medicare and medicade.
I believe we need to increase funding in the "others" sector for things like transportation, education, science & tech to grow this country.

If we really wanted to pay off our debt we would have to increase revenue AND reduce spending. Problem is both tax hikes and reduced spending isn't good for the economy, we probably need to wait for unemployment to drop to about 5-6% in the next four years before we can seriously talk about balancing the budget, by then our national debt would be about 20 trillion.

Re: Wake the **** up

Rainman05 said:

Instead of working with voodoo numbers and magic, how about the real deal?

PresidentialDebt.org - U.S. National Deby by Presidential Term

Obama is the US's biggest spender. No matter how you twist and turn it, you can't weasel him out of this one. If you want to talk % and make Obama look good, do it with the link I gave you. don't work with the numbers, they are not in your favor. They are against you. Obama did more than twice the amount of debt, in money, in half the time. Period. There is nothing else to be discussed.

The ratios for Obama's increase in spending are indeed, better, than those for Bush. Who would have thought? well, it is true since he started off the bat with a 3.9 tril dollar budget and only added a bit more over the years.

How else can we see that Obama is the biggest spender? Because 3months ago, the ratio between GDP and debt got past 100%.

If you look at the link I gave you at the 4th column (Gross domestic product), Bush increased the debt/GDP ratio by 7-8% in all his years, except the last one. From 57.8% to 65.6%.
In his last year, 2008, he increased the debt/GDP ratio from 65.6% to 74.1%. So it took him 7 years to increase the debt/GDP ratio by 7% and then in the last year, he pushed another 8%. So total, 15-16% increase in the debt/GDP ratio.

Obama increased the debt/GDP ratio from 74.1% to 101%. That is a 26% increase in debt/GDP ratio in 3.5 years... because the last track is from the summer.

So where Obama shines is the fact that his spending increase in the budged increased at a lower rate, %-wise, than Bush. But he did spend the most money, in the least amount of time. => Added the most debt, lost the most revenue from taxes and decreased the middle class.

Click to expand...

I think we tend to borrow more than we can really manage because our international interest rate is so low at a little over 1%. Note the steady interest expense % even as our national debt % goes up, what this actually means, from what I think, is that other countries are nice enough to lower interest rates as our debt goes up. It could of course also mean that we're paying less and less % back.

Looking at the source I'd say at least it looks like the rate of increase in debt/gdp is decreasing, which is a promising sign. Growth wise Regan piled on more deficit spending than any other president.

I agree though unless if revenue goes up (more improvements in the economy, or tax hikes) and spending goes down, the debt will eventually catch up to us.

Re: Wake the **** up

Hairytic said:

You will have to prove you're right.

Click to expand...

You need only wait. The answer will come to you.