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A frustrated radio show caller

TheNextEra said:
Actually they do.
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Actually, no. Numbers floating around without context are not useful; such are, in fact, a tool of propagandists.
 
MaggieD said:
Meaningful, Mr. Wiggen. And glad I could entertain you. Thanks for your insightful opinion. Too bad you don't add anything, you know, intellectual to the thread. It doesn't take a right-wing zealot to recognize that poor black communities are being segregated, paid off into silence, shot down on the streets like dogs, and having their families destroyed by a system who rewards single mothers with a paycheck.
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Maggie - you are a rational and decent person and I think everybody here realizes that. Let me ask you an honest question: this system that the right hates which gives single mothers a paycheck.... what alternative do you have for it? And I do not mean pie in the sky fantasyland nonsense where we say that we want everyone to be responsible and good and hard working and all children to be loved and raised well because this is planet earth we are dealing with.

I think its a pretty crappy system we have also where we take somebody with sixth grade skills and no prospects of ever holding a job and we reward them with a check for having babies by heaven knows who as the father. It stinks to high heaven.

But please tell me what the realistic alternatives are?
 
MaggieD said:
You are a very bitter person, Wiggen. Too bad. If you have another answer as to why black kids can't play on their porches without getting shot, getting shot on their couches while watching TV, getting shot on the street corners, getting shot while walking to school? Let's hear it. 'Cause they can sure do all those things in my neighborhood without getting shot. Know why? 'Cause we'd call out the freakin' National Guard if that **** was happening in a white neighborhood.




What the hell does that have to do with what I said?
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Ever occur to you that the big difference is the police actually respond and give a crap if a shooting happens in a predominantly white neighborhood especially if it is affluent? In most municipalities of any size the police have become nothing more than a publicly funded private security force for businesses and the few remaining wealthy enclaves.
 
Thorgasm said:
That's funny. I haven't heard about the National Guard being dispatched to Chicago. Urban sprawl has spread that gun violence all over the state. This includes my city which is one of the safest in the country. I wish the solutions were simple, but they aren't.
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No, that violence hasn't spread all over the state. Yes, there's violence everywhere. But the violence in Chicago's inner-cities is rampant. I live 8 miles from the city limits. We haven't had a homocide in at least 13 years, if ever. City of Chicago crime rate: 666 crimes per square mile. State of Illinois crime rate: 32 per square mile. National average is 39.3. Chicago crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout
 
MaggieD said:
I absolutely believe this. What's been done to black communities and families has been done by design. Too bad they aren't wise enough to realize it.
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But you aren't predjudice against blacks are you? You are taking an entire race and calling them dumb? WTF!
 
ecofarm said:
Actually, no. Numbers floating around without context are not useful; such are, in fact, a tool of propagandists.
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The context is that there are more white people on welfare than blacks. That is IN context and IS fact. Sorry you don't like facts.
 
Thorgasm said:
Food stamps haven't been used in years. Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Who would want to live in Section 8 housing?
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Oh, I'm sorry - their WIC card..

Many are proud to live in section 8 public housing... Do I have to provide rap videos and rap songs to cite this?
 
haymarket said:
Maggie - you are a rational and decent person and I think everybody here realizes that. Let me ask you an honest question: this system that the right hates which gives single mothers a paycheck.... what alternative do you have for it? And I do not mean pie in the sky fantasyland nonsense where we say that we want everyone to be responsible and good and hard working and all children to be loved and raised well because this is planet earth we are dealing with.

I think its a pretty crappy system we have also where we take somebody with sixth grade skills and no prospects of ever holding a job and we reward them with a check for having babies by heaven knows who as the father. It stinks to high heaven.

But please tell me what the realistic alternatives are?
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I don't know. But I do know that what we're doing isn't working. Sometimes I think the answer is to remove young children from their homes and enroll them in boarding schools. At least that way we could remove crappy parents from the mix and stop the generational tide. It's really up to the people themselves. When they begin to realize that they are being marginalized by society, maybe they'll wake up.
 
TheNextEra said:
The context is that there are more white people on welfare than blacks. That is IN context and IS fact. Sorry you don't like facts.
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Everyone knows this, and we know that it is a result of absolute numbers as opposed to relative ones. Your statement is intellectually dishonest, and even a HS student could see that.
 
Thorgasm said:
Food stamps haven't been used in years. Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Who would want to live in Section 8 housing?
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We have Section 8 housing in suburban Chicago. Lovely neighborhoods. Private homes with fenced yards, good schools, all the rest. What's wrong with that?
 
ecofarm said:
Everyone knows this, and we know that it is a result of absolute numbers as opposed to relative ones. Your statement is intellectually dishonest, and even a HS student could see that.
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My statement is FACT, not intellectually dishonest. Sorry, learn the term before you use it and MaggieD likes it.
 
TheNextEra said:
My statement is FACT, not intellectually dishonest. Sorry, learn the term before you use it and MaggieD likes it.
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There most certainly should be more whites than blacks on welfare. Blacks make up only 15% of our population. That's the honest perspective you seem to avoid.
 
My God... Is the race card really all you people have?
 
MaggieD said:
I don't know. But I do know that what we're doing isn't working. Sometimes I think the answer is to remove young children from their homes and enroll them in boarding schools. At least that way we could remove crappy parents from the mix and stop the generational tide. It's really up to the people themselves. When they begin to realize that they are being marginalized by society, maybe they'll wake up.
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I agree the social child welfare system is not working. Just like I agree with you that - for some at least - the educational system is not working. Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that this is the price we pay for not wanting to pay the price for doing it any other way.

The office I work for spent some serious time looking into boarding schools and we found out that the costs are astronomical and through the roof. I do not think we as a society are ready to return to the days when we warehouse large numbers of kids in institutional settings away from any parental influence.

Lets face it Maggie - people do NOT want the kids that come from poor, uneducated, unskilled minority teen mothers. Who is going to take in those kids with any expectation of being able to integrate them into their family? The social stigma is just too great and we all know the horror stories about some adopted kids.

People are not simply going to wake up. We have the suburbs and exurbs so they do not have to. I know - I live in one. And if you really got the bucks you can live in a gated community where not only do you need not to wake up you can stay in slumberland permanently without facing the reality many others deal with.
 
TheNextEra said:
My statement is FACT, not intellectually dishonest. Sorry, learn the term before you use it and MaggieD likes it.
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You claimed that the absolute numbers disproved the statement that welfare targets blacks. You were pretending that welfare could not target blacks because it is used by so many whites (in absolute numbers). Given the percentages of whites and blacks that utilize welfare, your statement was intellectually dishonest.

Just because the numbers exist does not make your (intellectually dishonest) counter-position a "fact". Seeing as we were discussing not the absolute numbers, but the proposal that welfare targets blacks, there is no way you can pretend that your counter-evidence holds any water.

It's classic intellectually dishonest propaganda.
 
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Grim17 said:
My God... Is the race card really all you people have?
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I'm ignoring that bull****. Any time someone wants to discuss poverty/welfare/whatever on this forum, idiots seemingly can't wait to call one racist. Jerks.
 
ecofarm said:
You claimed that the absolute numbers disproved the statement that welfare targets blacks.
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Oh yes, that definitely proves your claim that secretly people went into a room and said "Hey, how can we target blacks into poverty", "Oh yeah I know it, we will call it welfare". Oh yeah, that's beleivable :roll:

Conspiracy comments like yours and MaggieD belong in the conspiracy section of this board. Complete lunacy.
 
Mr.Nick said:
No... Democrats are an offshoot of the Federalists and republicans are an offshoot of Democratic-Republicans....

I suppose neo-cons are a different story but the aforementioned is correct.....
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The Democrats are the continuation of the Democratic-Republicans. The Republican party as we know it started in the 1850s after the demise of the Whig party, which itself followed the Federalists. Most of the people that started the Republican party were former Whigs. Get your history correct.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm ignoring that bull****. Any time someone wants to discuss poverty/welfare/whatever on this forum, idiots seemingly can't wait to call one racist. Jerks.
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Versus your bull**** claims that some white guys are secretly conspiring to keep the black man down by creating welfare. Gimme a break.
 
MaggieD said:
We have Section 8 housing in suburban Chicago. Lovely neighborhoods. Private homes with fenced yards, good schools, all the rest. What's wrong with that?
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I live in Round Lake now but lived in Waukegan, Zion, North Chicago, Gurnee, Antioch, Libertyville, Mt Prospect, Des Plaines, Chicago....

Section 8 (with some exceptions) is generally the same anywhere - it just matters how concentrated the neighborhood is with section 8.

Some townships have good schools and others don't because they're trying to water section 8 down - I don't think it's working tho. People go where they tend to fit in - that is why housing vouchers are a bad idea, they just create mini-ghettos around here.
 
rocket88 said:
The Democrats are the continuation of the Democratic-Republicans. The Republican party as we know it started in the 1850s after the demise of the Whig party, which itself followed the Federalists. Most of the people that started the Republican party were former Whigs. Get your history correct.
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And to continue that further, the Whigs were so named because of their opposition to Andrew Jackson, a Democratic-Republican (until the "Republican" was dropped).
 
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