• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Mitt Romney Needs To Reconsider The 47%

Geoist

Geoist

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
35,139
Reaction score
26,987
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Usually I don't comment on Republican vs Democrat Party bickering, but I after reading this article it made me think. Its a generally accepted fact that 47% of the US does not pay income tax. Romney assumes that same 47% (who are mostly lower class) will be voting for Obama because they are dependent on government and wouldn't care if the income tax increases. But according to the LA Times article, the number of Republican voters who consider themselves lower class has soared from 13% (in 2008) to 23% (compare that to 33% who are Democrat voters). Thats a decent chunk.

So does Romney really believe that entire 47% is Democrat? And what about all the wealthy/middle class voters who are Democrats? Seems like his numbers are off.
 
As was pointed our before, the 47% isn't accurate anyway. It's supposedly more like 12% (considering students, seniors, unemployed and underemployed, etc.) Geo. So, yes, he has figures from la la land.
 
Rosie1 said:
As was pointed our before, the 47% isn't accurate anyway. It's supposedly more like 12% (considering students, seniors, unemployed and underemployed, etc.) Geo. So, yes, he has figures from la la land.
Click to expand...

I don't see the 47% being disputed very much. Perhaps it is way off. I'd be interested to see it if you have a link to support this. According to an ABC News article it is around 46% BUT if you include the payroll tax then its more like 18%.

Either way, Romney's comment makes no sense.
 
It probably made sense to the group he was addressing. I'm sure he didn't expect to be filmed. The truth is irrelevant in politics. All that counts is getting elected.



Geoist said:
I don't see the 47% being disputed very much. Perhaps it is way off. I'd be interested to see it if you have a link to support this. According to an ABC News article it is around 46% BUT if you include the payroll tax then its more like 18%.

Either way, Romney's comment makes no sense.
Click to expand...
 
So no Republican wants to jump to the defense of Romney and explain why this 47% would only vote for Obama?
 
Geoist said:
So no Republican wants to jump to the defense of Romney and explain why this 47% would only vote for Obama?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's "defending ROmney" or not, but I can cite historical figures, including Ben Franklin, who believed that Democracy was all but over once the electorate figured out they could vote themselves greater and greater benefits from government. Because at that point, they would simply vote for the candidate promising the electorate more goodies funded by the American treasury.

Sooooo, it appears that Romney is versed with this philosophy quite well.

It's pretty hard to compete for the votes of the public when one candidate is saying, "vote for me, and I'll tax the rich more so I can give you more". Or when he's floating the notion that college education should be paid for, healthcare should be paid for, food, housing, etc, and that the government should GUARANTEE a job for everyone. He's promoting more dependency, and the electorate is learning that if they want more government benefits, just vote Liberal. If they want more food stamps, vote Liberal. If they want more unemployment benefits, vote liberal. If they want the government to pay for their health insurance, vote Liberal. If they want the government to pay for their college educations, vote Liberal.

THIS is the philosophy that Romney understands about the left, and because he understands the effect of this type of philosophy, he makes statements about 47% of the country falling into the trap of ever increasing entitlement mentality. You can't compete with a candidate that promises to take money from those who have it, and redistribute it out to them without having to earn it. Especially when he's proven that it doesn't matter if we have the money or not, he's going to redistribute it no matter how high our debt gets, no matter how high our deficits get.

Know this......it's not a slam, it's simply the truth, that even Benjamin Franklin recognized so long ago....
 
Masada said:
I don't know if it's "defending ROmney" or not, but I can cite historical figures, including Ben Franklin, who believed that Democracy was all but over once the electorate figured out they could vote themselves greater and greater benefits from government. Because at that point, they would simply vote for the candidate promising the electorate more goodies funded by the American treasury.

Sooooo, it appears that Romney is versed with this philosophy quite well.

It's pretty hard to compete for the votes of the public when one candidate is saying, "vote for me, and I'll tax the rich more so I can give you more". Or when he's floating the notion that college education should be paid for, healthcare should be paid for, food, housing, etc, and that the government should GUARANTEE a job for everyone. He's promoting more dependency, and the electorate is learning that if they want more government benefits, just vote Liberal. If they want more food stamps, vote Liberal. If they want more unemployment benefits, vote liberal. If they want the government to pay for their health insurance, vote Liberal. If they want the government to pay for their college educations, vote Liberal.

THIS is the philosophy that Romney understands about the left, and because he understands the effect of this type of philosophy, he makes statements about 47% of the country falling into the trap of ever increasing entitlement mentality. You can't compete with a candidate that promises to take money from those who have it, and redistribute it out to them without having to earn it. Especially when he's proven that it doesn't matter if we have the money or not, he's going to redistribute it no matter how high our debt gets, no matter how high our deficits get.

Know this......it's not a slam, it's simply the truth, that even Benjamin Franklin recognized so long ago....
Click to expand...

Here's the thing. That 47%? Not what Romney says they are. They aren't people that fit this description. Here are some examples of the 47%:

-Military personnel E-4 and lower. (varies slightly depending on family size)
-Every high school and college student with a crappy, part-time job.
-Retired seniors collecting social security after paying taxes for it their whole lives.
-7000 millionaires.
-People whose income comes from investments. (taxed as capital gains)
-Working family of four earning $26,400 in 2010.
-People not earning income, regardless of reason. (stay at home mom, millionaire who sold his business and retired, mentally or physically disabled, lost job in the recession...)

You know people who fit this category. Go tell them to their faces that they haven't worked hard and paid taxes. Go tell those military folks they're a dependent class who feel like victims. Did you know that nearly everyone in this 47% either pays payroll taxes or is retired? The GOP is giving you tunnel vision, looking only at income taxes, because that picture fits this talking point they've generated.

Your description of Obama's platform, by the way, is inaccurate.
 
Last edited:
Deuce said:
Here's the thing. That 47%? Not what Romney says they are. They aren't people that fit this description. Here are some examples of the 47%:

-Military personnel E-4 and lower. (varies slightly depending on family size)
-Every high school and college student with a crappy, part-time job.
-Retired seniors collecting social security after paying taxes for it their whole lives.
-7000 millionaires.
-People whose income comes from investments. (taxed as capital gains)
-Working family of four earning $26,400 in 2010.
-People not earning income, regardless of reason. (stay at home mom, millionaire who sold his business and retired, mentally or physically disabled, lost job in the recession...)

You know people who fit this category. Go tell them to their faces that they haven't worked hard and paid taxes. Go tell those military folks they're a dependent class who feel like victims. Did you know that nearly everyone in this 47% either pays payroll taxes or is retired? The GOP is giving you tunnel vision, looking only at income taxes, because that picture fits this talking point they've generated.

Your description of Obama's platform, by the way, is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

You forgot the most egregious omission of them all... people starting businesses. Businesses rarely go from start-up to highest tax brackets in the first year; instead, they often lose money during the start-up phase. Those losses can then be used to offset future income until fully recovered.

I started a business 3 years ago. This is my first year of profitability. I paid no tax during my first two years of operation. Although I will make money this year, I am recovering my losses, so I will pay no income tax this year as well. I am a 47%er. I also have created 60 jobs in my new business. I also have previously paid over well over $1M in FIT, yet, I am a Romney deadbeat.
 
upsideguy said:
You forgot the most egregious omission of them all... people starting businesses. Businesses rarely go from start-up to highest tax brackets in the first year; instead, they often lose money during the start-up phase. Those losses can then be used to offset future income until fully recovered.

I started a business 3 years ago. This is my first year of profitability. I paid no tax during my first two years of operation. Although I will make money this year, I am recovering my losses, so I will pay no income tax this year as well. I am a 47%er. I also have created 60 jobs in my new business. I also have previously paid over well over $1M in FIT, yet, I am a Romney deadbeat.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that you believe you are a victim. You can't ever be convinced to take personal responsibility!
 
Here's why the comment was really dumb:

notaxbystate.jpg

The majority of those who pay no taxes live in 'red states' (gods, I loathe our backwards political color terminology). No doubt there will be caterwauls about how "those people are Obama voters/blacks", to which I say, yes - in states like Mississippi. Not so much in Texas or Idaho. And, with the sole exception of New Mexico (and perhaps Florida, though I expect Romney to narrowly carry it), all of these states are going to go rock-solidly for Romney.

That's the price you pay when you are the Party of the white South.
 
Last edited:
Geoist said:
So does Romney really believe that entire 47% is Democrat? And what about all the wealthy/middle class voters who are Democrats? Seems like his numbers are off.
Click to expand...
The 47% refers to Obama's base. He didn't say that there's 47% who don't pay taxes and they're all democrats.
 
Taylor said:
The 47% refers to Obama's base. He didn't say that there's 47% who don't pay taxes and they're all democrats.
Click to expand...

"These are people who don't pay income taxes."

Coincidentally the same 47% number that has been thrown around all over the place, the population that didn't pay federal income taxes in 2010.
 
Rosie1 said:
As was pointed our before, the 47% isn't accurate anyway. It's supposedly more like 12% (considering students, seniors, unemployed and underemployed, etc.) Geo. So, yes, he has figures from la la land.
Click to expand...

Romney: "we need to put kids and seniors to work, can't just give those kids free education 'handouts', or those seniors medical 'handouts'"
 
shiang said:
Romney: "we need to put kids and seniors to work, can't just give those kids free education 'handouts', or those seniors medical 'handouts'"
Click to expand...

that's a helluva quote ya got there....very damning indeed.

unfortunately, I googled it and found nothing that matches it.


does Romney compel you to be dishonest, or do you do that on your own?
 
Thrilla said:
that's a helluva quote ya got there....very damning indeed.

unfortunately, I googled it and found nothing that matches it.


does Romney compel you to be dishonest, or do you do that on your own?
Click to expand...

some people have no sense of humor

...well I sorta wish it were a joke instead of it being the beliefs of the candidate from one of our two major parties. It's implied with the 47% number.
 
Last edited:
The 47 percent needs an attitude adjustment.
 
Geoist said:
Usually I don't comment on Republican vs Democrat Party bickering, but I after reading this article it made me think. Its a generally accepted fact that 47% of the US does not pay income tax. Romney assumes that same 47% (who are mostly lower class) will be voting for Obama because they are dependent on government and wouldn't care if the income tax increases. But according to the LA Times article, the number of Republican voters who consider themselves lower class has soared from 13% (in 2008) to 23% (compare that to 33% who are Democrat voters). Thats a decent chunk.

So does Romney really believe that entire 47% is Democrat? And what about all the wealthy/middle class voters who are Democrats? Seems like his numbers are off.
Click to expand...

I think the best description of the "story" is that it is a "Country Club Fantasy" and to be part of the club you must believe it to be true. If he doesn't believe it then he was shamlessly pandering and that is not too attractive either.
 
shiang said:
some people have no sense of humor

...well I sorta wish it were a joke instead of it being the beliefs of the candidate from one of our two major parties. It's implied with the 47% number.
Click to expand...

you weren't joking.. and it's not the belief of any candidate of any party.

next false talking point....
 
You know who's a good example of the people in the 47% not paying income taxes group? I mean other than 16-21 year olds, senior citizens, and vets. Every single one of those Subway sandwich guys. Not the summer job kids. The ones who work there for years. The ones who are actually good at their job. Just their job doesn't pay much. Why hate on the people who make your food?
 
Geoist said:
Usually I don't comment on Republican vs Democrat Party bickering, but I after reading this article it made me think. Its a generally accepted fact that 47% of the US does not pay income tax. Romney assumes that same 47% (who are mostly lower class) will be voting for Obama because they are dependent on government and wouldn't care if the income tax increases. But according to the LA Times article, the number of Republican voters who consider themselves lower class has soared from 13% (in 2008) to 23% (compare that to 33% who are Democrat voters). Thats a decent chunk.

So does Romney really believe that entire 47% is Democrat? And what about all the wealthy/middle class voters who are Democrats? Seems like his numbers are off.
Click to expand...
IMO there is a very good reason why Romney had kept his spouting off on this subject behind tightly closed, gilded doors to a very select audience. And you've hit it on the head.
 
Geoist said:
So no Republican wants to jump to the defense of Romney and explain why this 47% would only vote for Obama?
Click to expand...

The figure seems pretty accurate. Unpleasant to be sure, but accurate.
 
The number is off, but how much exactly? I don't think we will know until the vote. Our family isn't in the 47%, and we're voting for Obama. I know many others. But this is Oregon, so that's probably our area. My hubby is a highly educated Republican, and he doen't hold a high opinion of Romney. The arrogance of Romney's 47% speech, just wasn't very smart. I don't care who his audience was. Few things are confidential nowadays, and he just doesn't seem to think much before he speaks.
 
Deuce said:
"These are people who don't pay income taxes."
Click to expand...
Yes, and Obama believes every single person in small town Pennsylvania is a bitter, racist, isolationist, gun-wielding, religious zealot. Every single one of them. Even the ones that vote for Obama - doesn't he realize!! OMG he's so stupid (blah blah blah):

PA.jpg

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom