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Obama's Tax penalty to hit nearly 6 million uninsured people

H. Lee White

H. Lee White

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Libertarian - Right
AdamT said:
If everyone complies with the law, exactly no one in the middle class will pay a penalty. :shrug:
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Well that makes perfect sense!! If you're employed, you're covered. If you're not employed, you need only spend about $14,000 a year (average cost of health insurance for a family of four) to avoid your $1,200 tax penalty (CBO estimated average).
 
I doubt you'll get much of an answer out of Obama on that one:

H. Lee White said:
Wait. I thought Obama wasn't going to raise taxes on the middle class.
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Empty Chair said:
Uhh
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H. Lee White said:
Yes you did. I have the quote right here:
"I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
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Empty Chair said:
Uhh
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H. Lee White said:
Yes, I know that Romney is a Mormon, why should I -- Tax returns? What do Romney's tax returns have to do with this?
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Empty Chair said:
Uhh
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H. Lee White said:
I hate black people...? WHAT??? Please just answer the question...

Hello?

Obama?
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AdamT said:
If everyone complies with the law, exactly no one in the middle class will pay a penalty. :shrug:

OTOH, tens of millions of working class people will receive subsidies to purchase health care insurance, which they could not afford in the past.
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The big question I have is what to happen to those penalty payments? Is it just more money for the Congress Clowns to spend? Or does it go to offset the hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidy payments we're making to help those who can't afford it to pay their premiums? I know which way I think it's going.
 
Taylor said:
Well that makes perfect sense!! If you're employed, you're covered. If you're not employed, you need only spend about $14,000 a year (average cost of health insurance for a family of four) to avoid your $1,200 tax penalty (CBO estimated average).
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Guess you didn't read the whole article. The administration will exempt low income individuals from the penalties. I'd say being unemployed would qualify as low income.
 
AdamT said:
If everyone complies with the law, exactly no one in the middle class will pay a penalty. :shrug:

OTOH, tens of millions of working class people will receive subsidies to purchase health care insurance, which they could not afford in the past.
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You mean if everyone pays the THOUSANDS of dollars (or over $10,000) per year additional HEALTH TAX. That is the penalty - and since MILLIONS won't have the thousands of dollars, that means they will pay the huge tax penalty instead. So IN FACT MILLIONS of people will pay much greater taxes.

Millions will just take Obama's $1400 TAX HIKE on them having no choice but to do so. Millions more won't even be able to pay it - meaning their homes can be seized for tax evasion. When Obama becomes president, everyone is born a lifelong debtor to either the insurance industry or the government.

I think that means a MINIMUAL $2800 per year Obama tax hike on couples.
 
Taylor said:
Well that makes perfect sense!! If you're employed, you're covered. If you're not employed, you need only spend about $14,000 a year (average cost of health insurance for a family of four) to avoid your $1,200 tax penalty (CBO estimated average).
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Nonsense. If you're unemployed then you will be exempt from the penalty. If you are self employed you will have access to lower cost insurance through an exchange, and if you are lower income you will be entitled to subsidized insurance.

Or ... you can pay the small penalty, have no insurance, and foist off your health care costs on everyone else.
 
MaggieD said:
The big question I have is what to happen to those penalty payments? Is it just more money for the Congress Clowns to spend? Or does it go to offset the hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidy payments we're making to help those who can't afford it to pay their premiums? I know which way I think it's going.
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And like income tax (originally only 2% and only paid by the wealthy) and nearly all other new tax forms, it won't stay at $1400 per adult. That's just to get it in the door. At any time Congress can raise it to whatever they want on what criteria they pick. It is a MASSIVE tax hike for many working families. And it is another good reason to consider living on the government tit, while trying make a little more under the table on the side.

Play it right, and you'll both get food stamps, food aid, housing subsidy, perpetual unemployment benefits, plus full medical coverage for free - AND any money you make working for cash on the side too. Unless a family can earn at least $30,000 they would be NUTS to work a regular job. PLUS they MIGHT hit the motherlobe and qualify for full disability payments - plus what money they can make under the table.

I know MANY people who live EXACTLY that way as their economic life style - and YES they were OUTRAGED at what Romney said, truly infuriated! I do not know one person drawing housing subsidy and food stamps that isn't working full time under the table too - and they 100% expect those benefits checks as something they are owed by the government. I learned not to raise it as a topic as they rage very quickly with "look at how much more YOU have than we do!" at me.

YET where Romney was wrong is that does NOT mean some people recieving government benefits won't vote for him. People will take money they can get, but that doesn't mean they think its good government. Nearly all our income now is from various levels of government, including our paychecks. We also receive all sorts of other payments, but that is complex to explain.
 
Loki97 said:
Guess you didn't read the whole article. The administration will exempt low income individuals from the penalties. I'd say being unemployed would qualify as low income.
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Yeah, I think you're right on that. According to the CBO, the vast majority of people affected by Obama's tax penalty -- 80 percent -- will be somewhere between the poverty line and five times that ($115,250 or less for a family of four). On which side of that range do you think most of the uninsured gather?

Safe to say, it's largely a tax on the middle class.
 
AdamT said:
Nonsense. If you're unemployed then you will be exempt from the penalty.
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Of course, of course I should have known better... you can't have redistribution without somebody to distribute to.
 
Taylor said:
Yeah, I think you're right on that. According to the CBO, the vast majority of people affected by Obama's tax penalty -- 80 percent -- will be somewhere between the poverty line and five times that ($115,250 or less for a family of four). On which side of that range do you think most of the uninsured gather?

Safe to say, it's largely a tax on the middle class.
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Most employed people in the middle class still get insurance through their employers. Even places like McDonald's offer insurance to their employees. It's crappy coverage and would still leave you bankrupt and massively in debt if any major health problem arose but it would exempt you from the penalty. Mostly it would effect small business owners who don't carry coverage for themselves and some young workers who opt out of employer plans.
 
AdamT said:
If everyone complies with the law, exactly no one in the middle class will pay a penalty. :shrug:
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Except for those who find that the Obama's tax hike is less expensive than insurance.
 
Loki97 said:
Most employed people in the middle class still get insurance through their employers. Even places like McDonald's offer insurance to their employees. It's crappy coverage and would still leave you bankrupt and massively in debt if any major health problem arose but it would exempt you from the penalty. Mostly it would effect small business owners who don't carry coverage for themselves and some young workers who opt out of employer plans.
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The figures I quoted already take that into account. The overwhelming majority of those affected by the Obama tax will be middle class workers at the poverty level on up to 55k for individuals, 115k for a family of four.
 
Taylor said:
The figures I quoted already take that into account. The overwhelming majority of those affected by the Obama tax will be middle class workers at the poverty level on up to 55k for individuals, 115k for a family of four.
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Except that no one at the poverty level would be effected at all since they would already qualify for Medicaid. Without knowing how many will be exempt as low income it is impossible to say how many will be caught in the middle. the growing disparity in incomes and proliferation of low pay service jobs would indicate to me that the majority of these people will be exempt.
 
Loki97 said:
Except that no one at the poverty level would be effected at all since they would already qualify for Medicaid. Without knowing how many will be exempt as low income it is impossible to say how many will be caught in the middle. the growing disparity in incomes and proliferation of low pay service jobs would indicate to me that the majority of these people will be exempt.
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Not true. The CBO predicts that 10% of those affected will actually be below the poverty level. States can choose to opt out of the Medicaid expansion (as per the Supreme Court ruling).
 
H. Lee White said:
Tax penalty to hit nearly 6 million uninsured people | The Columbus Dispatch
Wait. I thought Obama wasn't going to raise taxes on the middle class.
Real friend of the people -he- is.
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Um... tell your boss to give you insurance? If they have it go buy it it's pretty cheap. Even cheaper and better now under Obama care.

How much is the "penalty" anyways. I bet it's pocket change, any more and the cheap company policies would cost less, might as well just buy it. The idea is to "force" people to focus more on prevention. A larger pool and new laws mean more fair and affordable healthcare insurance.

I have a few friends that are doctors. What they tell me is the effects on doctors is an increase in primary care (family doctors) and a decrease in specialists, and it should increase efficiency of our medical system.
 
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If you are making under 25k they will get it all back anyways. The rest I'm not sure out of 8 million would fall in the other category.
 
Cap on insurance premiums

Up to 133% 2.0% 2.0%
133% up to 150% 3.0% 4.0%
150% up to 200% 4.0% 6.3%
200% up to 250% 6.3% 8.05%
250% up to 300% 8.05% 9.5%
300% up to 400% 9.5% 9.5%’’; and

The first % are % of poverty level for income of family/individual. The 2nd set is low to high on the MAXIMUM premium cost as percentage of income. ...I could be wrong.

"cadilac" insurance (insurance with no-copay and excessive coverage which encourages people to see the doctor when there's no need) are given a 40% tax.

"cadilac" insurance is defined as

Individual: $10,200+

Family: $27,500+

So when Mitt, Ann, and their 5 kids go see the John Hopkins doctors for foot massages after a hard day of campaigning. They can still get that but will have to pay 40% taxes for it. Which are then used to reduce the cost of medical schools and insurance coverage for the rest of us. Excessive use of doctors reduces the supply of doctor hours and thus increases demand and cost for the rest of the population.

I've probably read more of this bill than most of the congressman.


BTW... the penalties don't kick in till years later I think, I believe it's suppose to be effective in 2018 or 2020 and I can't find for the life of me what those amounts are. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not even well defined yet, and they're just kicking that can down the road.
 
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Hatuey said:
If a person is "middle class" and is uninsured I can't help but imagine what they spend their money on.
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So long as it's not illegal, its their choice - isn't it?
Well, it was, until Obama took away that choice - now, they are forced to choose between buying health insurance or having their taxes raised.

Does the fact that you cannot imagine someting really mean anything?
 
H. Lee White said:
Tax penalty to hit nearly 6 million uninsured people | The Columbus Dispatch
Wait. I thought Obama wasn't going to raise taxes on the middle class.
Real friend of the people -he- is.
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Sure, no problem. I'll get the health coverage. I'll simply get food stamps for me and my family to help offset the costs. The important thing to remember here is, we have a choice: buy health insurance, or pay fines to the government. Is the land of the free a great place to live, or what?!?
 
Again, no. If your income is that low the penalty won't apply to you.
 
i see it as the majority of those already taking free healthcare, or getting help with the bill through public assistance, will now have to pay a little for the ride theyve gotten from people like me. not soon enough IMO.
 
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