Romney Says Peace Not Possible in the Middle East

Bobcat said:

you are wrong, no one wants to force their beliefs on you or anyone else. society should set those rules, by majority vote. YOU are the one that is trying to force your views on others.

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And social conservatives are part of the society which wants to force their values and beliefs on people. Just because it's a majority doing it, doesn't make it less social conservatism.

If I were trying to force my views on you, you would have to run yourself in front of a bus. Since I am not, I am not forcing my views on you.

VanceMack said:

So...what...maybe...another 500 years? 600? dare to dream I suppose.

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Probably not even 100. I mean, look at our culture. We thought it was okay to own other people 150 years ago. We only started affording women the same legal protections as men in the last century, and we're still having trouble with that one. I don't think the Middle East has nearly as far to go to catch up as you think. And progress is getting faster, not slower. Probably a lot of this conflict will be over by 2100.

TheNextEra said:

And social conservatives are part of the society which wants to force their values and beliefs on people. Just because it's a majority doing it, doesn't make it less social conservatism.

If I were trying to force my views on you, you would have to run yourself in front of a bus. Since I am not, I am not forcing my views on you.

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too bad for you, but we live in a democratic society, the majority decides what is legal and what is moral and ethical. If you hold a minority view, thats too bad. You can always immigrate to a country that fits your views, but if you choose to stay in this one you will have to comply with what the majority sets as law.

The USA does not exist to compromise its values because some minority may disagree with them. you may speak your piece and cast your vote. If you lose, you can try again.

You cannot mandate abortion or gay marriage or anything else, we live in a democracy not a dictatorship.

Paschendale said:

Probably not even 100. I mean, look at our culture. We thought it was okay to own other people 150 years ago. We only started affording women the same legal protections as men in the last century, and we're still having trouble with that one. I don't think the Middle East has nearly as far to go to catch up as you think. And progress is getting faster, not slower. Probably a lot of this conflict will be over by 2100.

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only if they take the countries out of the hands or the religious leaders, as long as religion and state are one and the same, nothing will change.

Bobcat said:

only if they take the countries out of the hands or the religious leaders, as long as religion and state are one and the same, nothing will change.

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No argument there. Religion does incredible harm when it obtains political power.

Paschendale said:

Probably not even 100. I mean, look at our culture. We thought it was okay to own other people 150 years ago. We only started affording women the same legal protections as men in the last century, and we're still having trouble with that one. I don't think the Middle East has nearly as far to go to catch up as you think. And progress is getting faster, not slower. Probably a lot of this conflict will be over by 2100.

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Pasch...we are talking about people that had several hundred years head start and still choose to live in the stone age. We are talking about people who are TODAY spreading hatred and violence around the globe. They arent dying off...they are picking up steam, in part because there are so many apologists for them and because those that are what we laughingly call modern or moderate Muslims are too afraid to take a stand against them because they are afraid that if they do they will...whats the word...oh yeah...die.

Paschendale said:

Probably not even 100. I mean, look at our culture. We thought it was okay to own other people 150 years ago. We only started affording women the same legal protections as men in the last century, and we're still having trouble with that one. I don't think the Middle East has nearly as far to go to catch up as you think. And progress is getting faster, not slower. Probably a lot of this conflict will be over by 2100.

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For them to catch up any time in the next millenium, they are going to have to give up their belief that religion is the final authority in the affairs of men, and adopt actual political policies based on democracy and equal rights for all in their societies (not just in name), and that is not likely.

lizzie said:

For them to catch up any time in the next millenium, they are going to have to give up their belief that religion is the final authority in the affairs of men, and adopt actual political policies based on democracy and equal rights for all in their societies (not just in name), and that is not likely.

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They have already made the concession that men can only beat their wives in ways so as to not leave marks (unless of course they insult them, in which case Allah demands they kill them). How much more do you expect them to give???

VanceMack said:

They have already made the concession that men can only beat their wives in ways so as to not leave marks (unless of course they insult them, in which case Allah demands they kill them). How much more do you expect them to give???

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Haha- I don't expect them to give anything. I expect them to remain just where they are for another 700 years. :lol:

lizzie said:

Haha- I don't expect them to give anything. I expect them to remain just where they are for another 700 years. :lol:

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Sadly...so do I.

Ikari said:

All the more reason to have nothing to do with that conflict.

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We can't just butt out. Our involvement helps our defense contractors.

Bobcat said:

legal murder

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Oxymoron...

Paschendale said:

Probably not even 100. I mean, look at our culture. We thought it was okay to own other people 150 years ago. We only started affording women the same legal protections as men in the last century, and we're still having trouble with that one. I don't think the Middle East has nearly as far to go to catch up as you think. And progress is getting faster, not slower. Probably a lot of this conflict will be over by 2100.

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Since I think that is the time frame for the Middle East to run out of abundant oil per one of Richard Nixon's books, you may be right.

This is nothing more than an on-going power struggle in the region in which religion is just as much a tool as it was in Europe. Since Egypt's military kind of needs a way to bump off the Muslim Brotherhood whom they despise without making it look like they are overthrowing a democracy, I suspect not everything is as dire as it appears for the US in the country in the long run.

tessaesque said:

....I tend to think he's probably right. That particular region has been about divide, conquer, and expel since before the Palestinians WERE the Palestinians. I don't see any concession ever being enough to quell attacks and threats between the two.

Now, I can't watch the video, but I don't see in the text where he says that a Palestinian state is not feasible...just that he doesn't think any sort of compromise will work.

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He is right. The Israeli settlements have been the huge stumbling block over the last 15 years or so, but Israel is so landlocked that it will not give them up. I read somewhere that there was almost a deal in which Palestine would be a jointly patrolled independent city kind of like the Vatican but the refusal of Israel to budge on settlements destroyed the whole thing. Unless one of Israel's neighbors is willing to pony up some land to allow Israel to grow, I am not sure there practically can be a resolution.