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SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama [W: 371]

Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Dwight said:
An even better question yet, why aren’t you?
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I'm not sure what make you think that I am not.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Federalist said:
Because they were being presented with the option to join an interstate compact and they wanted to make darn sure that the new government didn't screw them over. When considering a treaty, one doesn't necessarily rewrite one's constitution at the same time.
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…“at the same time”, so in the future? Say a century down the road it still needs to be put off? Not a rewrite but an amendment?

Because there is protection for the individual from tyranny of government. If they were looking to protect that tyranny franchise for their own ends? THAT is what I am so very leery of, someone that says in effect “I want to be able to be a tyrant”.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Federalist said:
I'm not sure what make you think that I am not.
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You seem very concerned and dismayed with the turn of events where the 14th now holds the States to those standards that the Federal government is held when dealing with the rights of individuals.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Dwight said:
…“at the same time”, so in the future? Say a century down the road it still needs to be put off? Not a rewrite but an amendment?

Because there is protection for the individual from tyranny of government. If they were looking to protect that tyranny franchise for their own ends? THAT is what I am so very leery of, someone that says in effect “I want to be able to be a tyrant”.
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I see no reason to amend the constitution of my state. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a comprehensive bill of rights, which I consider even more protective than the federal bill of rights.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Dwight said:
You seem very concerned and dismayed with the turn of events where the 14th now holds the States to those standards that the Federal government is held when dealing with the rights of individuals.
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As I just indicated, my own state holds itself to a higher standard than that of the federal bill of rights.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Federalist said:
Thank you for sticking with me while I struggled to understand you.

Yes, I agree. If the state bill of rights is as complete as the federal then yes they are already holding themselves to the standard of the federal bill of rights.

This is true, but this does not mean that the federal Bill of Rights applies to any government but the federal government. The federal BOR was added specifically as a check on the power of the federal government as a precondition to it being accepted by the people of the several states.
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Here's an interesting exchange:

Roger Sherman argued against a Bill of Rights stating that the "State Declarations of Rights are not repealed by this Constitution." [George] Mason then stated "The Laws of the U.S. are to be paramount to State Bills of Rights."
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I blelieve the primary concern that prompted inclusion of the bill of rights was the preservation of individual rights. It was not primarily a state versus federal concern. Originally, of course, it was held to apply only to the federal government. Of course it also only applied to white, male landowners -- not even a majority of Americans.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Federalist said:
As I just indicated, my own state holds itself to a higher standard than that of the federal bill of rights.
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If that was the case then it is moot whether the US Bill of Rights applies to PA government, or not.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Dwight said:
If that was the case then it is moot whether the US Bill of Rights applies to PA government, or not.
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The effect is the same, for sure.

But that does not mean that the people of the states, when they created their compact, gave the federal government to power to enforce the federal bill of rights against their states. They included the bill of rights to protect themselves from possible tyranny by the federal government.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Federalist said:
The effect is the same, for sure.
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It would be, if that was the case.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Whenever taxes rates are cut on the very wealthy, federal revenues fall, and if spending cuts do not sufficiently compensate for those cuts, then there's a deficit, which means federal debt increases.

If Romney becomes Pres (which thankfully, will no longer happen), then he will cut taxes on the very wealthy (as every GOP Pres has done since 1980) and make no changes in overall spending (i. e. cut spending in some areas to make room for more wasteful military spending, as every GOP Pres has done since 1980). Therefore, under Romney, the debt will increase more than it would under Obama, who will not cut taxes on the very wealthy.

There's nothing mysterious about it: it's basic math. Conservatives just don't get it because they do not understand basic math. They're education doesn't come from a real school, but from the Limbaugh Institute, where math is not taught.

Case closed.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama [W:

A basic economics and math skills test should be required to vote in the US.

You can bet conservatives would most likely oppose such a regulation.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama [W:

solletica said:
A basic economics and math skills test should be required to vote in the US.

You can bet conservatives would most likely oppose such a regulation.
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As would liberals, considering that it's unconstitutional.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama [W:

solletica said:
A basic economics and math skills test should be required to vote in the US.

You can bet conservatives would most likely oppose such a regulation.
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If Liberals oppose simple I.D. laws (possibly confusing them with I.Q laws) how could thy possibly approve math tests? And we know how liberals become befuddled by economics. All they seem to know is that rich should pay more.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Dwight said:
Party #1 - State Government
Party #2 - Federal Government


So, there is a fear of tyrannical government, so protection of individuals are included. But why would those protections of the individual not also be extended to shield the individual from the tyranny by the States?

Options I see:
1) States’ intention to be tyrannical.
2) States’ self-assuredness that they are above ever becoming tyrannical.
3) An oversight.
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How does this obsolete start-up document, the Constitution, protect the majority from being tyrannized by small powerful groups?
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama [W:

Grant said:
If Liberals oppose simple I.D. laws (possibly confusing them with I.Q laws) how could thy possibly approve math tests? And we know how liberals become befuddled by economics. All they seem to know is that rich should pay more.
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Considering the poor have to pay more because the rich pay less. The ideal is no one pays anything, or at least we all should suffer equally.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

solletica said:
Whenever taxes rates are cut on the very wealthy, federal revenues fall, and if spending cuts do not sufficiently compensate for those cuts, then there's a deficit, which means federal debt increases.

If Romney becomes Pres (which thankfully, will no longer happen), then he will cut taxes on the very wealthy (as every GOP Pres has done since 1980) and make no changes in overall spending (i. e. cut spending in some areas to make room for more wasteful military spending, as every GOP Pres has done since 1980). Therefore, under Romney, the debt will increase more than it would under Obama, who will not cut taxes on the very wealthy.

There's nothing mysterious about it: it's basic math. Conservatives just don't get it because they do not understand basic math. They're education doesn't come from a real school, but from the Limbaugh Institute, where math is not taught.

Case closed.
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I suppose that to be fair we need to have everyone pay the federal income taxes. Then when tax rates are lowered they will impact everyone. If we were to do this then just as today the tax rates would affect most heavily those who actually pay the taxes.

Did I make that too complicated? Tax rate cuts affect those who actually pay the taxes.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama [W:

solletica said:
Considering the poor have to pay more because the rich pay less. The ideal is no one pays anything, or at least we all should suffer equally.
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When a trillion dollars is being borrowed every few months and then flushed down the Potomac everyone will pay. Fortunately for the rich, they often have the wherewithal to move elsewhere.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Misterveritis said:
I suppose that to be fair we need to have everyone pay the federal income taxes. Then when tax rates are lowered they will impact everyone. If we were to do this then just as today the tax rates would affect most heavily those who actually pay the taxes.

Did I make that too complicated? Tax rate cuts affect those who actually pay the taxes.
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82% of Americans pay taxes (payroll or income tax or both).
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

solletica said:
82% of Americans pay taxes (payroll or income tax or both).
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Wonderful. So if I pay one tax does that excuse me from paying all other taxes?

Admit it, you prefer lies to the truth. You prefer to confuse things more than clarify them.
Last year 41% of working Americans did not pay federal income taxes. The estimate for this year is 46%. Americans believe that everyone who works should pay the federal income tax. Your perspective is a losing perspective. It is not a surprise that you hold it.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

Misterveritis said:
Wonderful. So if I pay one tax does that excuse me from paying all other taxes?

Admit it, you prefer lies to the truth. You prefer to confuse things more than clarify them.
Last year 41% of working Americans did not pay federal income taxes.
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They did. All but 18% paid SS and Medicare taxes which are both federal income taxes by definition, since they are a federal (national) tax on income.

A tax is any earned money taken (under the threat of force) from one's pocket buy his/her government(s). Anyone who earns money is not going to consider money taken from him/her any less of a tax simply because uncle sammy prefers to call it something different (i. e. "payroll taxes"). A tax is a tax .

Romney's claim that 41% do not pay taxes is therefore a lie, and since lower-middle class conservatives are (as everyone knows) gullible, they bought the lie.

It's unlikely any lower-middle conservatives actually do their taxes themselves and/or understand what's being taken from them when taxes are filed, or else they would know that romney's statement is a lie.

Most of them instead just let the PC and/or H&R Block do it for them and don't bother to ask what was taken from them (probably because they're too dumb to keep numbers in their heads).
 
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Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

solletica said:
They did. All but 18% paid SS and Medicare taxes which are both federal income taxes by definition, since they are a federal (national) tax on income.
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I believe you struggle with reality. Did they or did they not pay the federal income tax? Try not to obscure the truth when you answer. I know you will want to. At least try to tell the truth. Please.

A tax is any earned money taken (under the threat of force) from one's pocket buy his/her government(s). Anyone who earns money is not going to consider money taken from him/her any less of a tax simply because uncle sammy prefers to call it something different (i. e. "payroll taxes"). A tax is a tax .
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I know this will be hard for you. Try, just one time to tell the truth.

Romney's claim that 41% do not pay taxes is therefore a lie, and since lower-middle class conservatives are (as everyone knows) gullible, they bought the lie.
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And liars lie. Got it.

It's unlikely any lower-middle conservatives actually do their taxes themselves and/or understand what's being taken from them when taxes are filed, or else they would know that romney's statement is a lie.

Most of them instead just let the PC and/or H&R Block do it for them and don't bother to ask what was taken from them (probably because they're too dumb to keep numbers in their heads).
Click to expand...
Thanks for playing.
 
Re: SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Vote

solletica said:
Romney's claim that 41% do not pay taxes is therefore a lie, and since lower-middle class conservatives are (as everyone knows) gullible, they bought the lie.
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From the first post:

Fielding a question from a donor about how he could triumph in November, Romney replied:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.​
You are very fast to call Romney a liar. But clearly it is you who have incorrectly stated what Romney actually said. You had to have known. After all, you behave as if you are the smartest person in the room.
 
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