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Pennsylvania poll: Obama up by 11 [W:267]

Strawmen are all you ever have.

You need to learn what that term is

its not a shortcut for your feeling a need to respond to something you don't like but for which you don't have a rational counterargument

and its moronic to claim that single issue voters on the issues I mentioned are not likely to vote dem
 
of course not-there are many power hungry elites or wannabes who support Obama as well

plus single issue voters such as

1) abortion rights advocates, and especially providers

2) those who place gay rights as their most important issue

3) labor union bosses, plaintiff's attorneys and others who find a dem controlled government more lucrative

4) the uber rich who want more control of others and figure more government gives them more control

5) the ne'er do wells pseudo intellectuals and white collar cubicle bunnies who want the government to punish those who have actually succeeded


So you think 53% of voters that voted for obama in 2008 fall in one of those categories. Well that's a lot of americans.
 
So you think 53% of voters that voted for obama in 2008 fall in one of those categories. Well that's a lot of americans.


Now that is a real straw man.JTB observe
 
until you can prove that claim (which apparently is based purely on dem anti Romney ads) I will have to pass on responding to the house upon which you built on that faulty foundation

Are you actually going to answer how a business that pays the sort of wages you want is going to survive COMPETING against other firms that buy the same quality of labor for 1/6th the cost?

And what is Obama going to do for YOU other than telling you those who are more industrious or ambitious than you are should be taxed more?

Are you suggesting that US workers accept lower pay to compete with workers in other countries? If so, can you explain how workers, here in the US, can support their families on $5 an hour? Big corporations can pay better wages here in the US and still make a good profit. One thing they can cut back on is paying out millions on executive bonuses. If you are claiming that we should keep people in this country poorer by offering them lower wages, then you support my argument that the GOP is working to end the middle class. Obama has proposed legislation that would bring jobs back to the US. He saved the auto industry here in the US. He proposes lower taxes on corporations only if they create jobs for US workers. The GOP want to keep taxes low for all corporations regardless of where they create jobs. Obama wants to rebuild the infrastructure, which needs to be done and will create jobs.
What has Romney and Ryan proposed in regards to saving the middle class?
 
Are you suggesting that US workers accept lower pay to compete with workers in other countries? If so, can you explain how workers, here in the US, can support their families on $5 an hour? Big corporations can pay better wages here in the US and still make a good profit. One thing they can cut back on is paying out millions on executive bonuses. If you are claiming that we should keep people in this country poorer by offering them lower wages, then you support my argument that the GOP is working to end the middle class. Obama has proposed legislation that would bring jobs back to the US. He saved the auto industry here in the US. He proposes lower taxes on corporations only if they create jobs for US workers. The GOP want to keep taxes low for all corporations regardless of where they create jobs. Obama wants to rebuild the infrastructure, which needs to be done and will create jobs.
What has Romney and Ryan proposed in regards to saving the middle class?

You just DO NOT GET IT

its not about ACCEPTING

ITS ABOUT REALITY. YOu cannot change the fact that other countries have labor that is much cheaper than American labor but just as competent.

Your worship of Obama is touching but his legislation cannot undo that fact. Corporations that pay 5 times the cost of labor cannot survive no matter how many tax cuts obama promises them.

Obama also is too beholden to his class warfare ideals to figure out that his schemes to punish the successful drives success out of this country. using taxes to reward or punish people is one of the reasons why we are in the mess we are in now.

the only way the middle class gets stronger is if they become more competitive and worth more wages than their counterparts in Asia or south america

and sitting back and whining about the rich or sucking on the public teat isn't going to do that

you want high tech level wages-you learn hi tech skills.

and its not my or anyone else in the top 5%'s fault that you don't have those skills
 
You just DO NOT GET IT

its not about ACCEPTING

ITS ABOUT REALITY. YOu cannot change the fact that other countries have labor that is much cheaper than American labor but just as competent.

Your worship of Obama is touching but his legislation cannot undo that fact. Corporations that pay 5 times the cost of labor cannot survive no matter how many tax cuts obama promises them.

Obama also is too beholden to his class warfare ideals to figure out that his schemes to punish the successful drives success out of this country. using taxes to reward or punish people is one of the reasons why we are in the mess we are in now.

the only way the middle class gets stronger is if they become more competitive and worth more wages than their counterparts in Asia or south america

and sitting back and whining about the rich or sucking on the public teat isn't going to do that

you want high tech level wages-you learn hi tech skills.

and its not my or anyone else in the top 5%'s fault that you don't have those skills

It's funny that wages were just as cheap overseas during the Clinton years, yet our economy did very well with higher wages. Your argument doesn't hold water.
 
First let me clarify that my post is not anti-Romney. I'm just discussing the phenomenon. It seems nobody else has an opinion about this. Oh well. I tried.

Intrade is an all or nothing betting site. But unlike to stock market it's honest. The socks are constantly manipulated but either something happens or it doesn't on Intrade. Those who bet there are carefully analytical - it's no place for partisanship when you bet real money.

I was just surprised by the sudden odds changes. I've watched this thing stuck in the 50s for a long time. Obama has been the preferred bet all along but I was trying to figure it out.

I'm philosophical about the election. Obama is not so bad but he's not so good either. Romney seems OK although his party and their ever present social engineering is a real drag. I doubt Romney is one to actually implement the GOP stuff, he might (or might not) be a better money manager. I'm voting 3rd party because I can't love either of the 2 big shots.

Intrade - Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012

What is Intrade? The stock market?

Yes, I think Romney messed up by criticizing Obama. But that wasn't immediately apparent -- I don't think he expected this to become the widespread phenomena that it has.
 
the number of people who are sucking on the public teat or who are resentful of the successful apparently outnumber those in that state who are successful or who don't need the government to prosper

sums it up.. its why Obama is shreading jobs faster then job creation... next will amnesty for votes...oh wait..
 
It's funny that wages were just as cheap overseas during the Clinton years, yet our economy did very well with higher wages. Your argument doesn't hold water.

a link to that Bs would be nice..
 
Despie his sleaze factor, I thought Clinton was a pretty good President.

During the Clinton era, we Americans were ahead of the pack in technology. We basically invented the PC and the modern digital phone system. Things were good, albeit on a minor stock bubble in telecommunications. That bubble was also a stimulus because for a while, everybody (with a 401K) got "well off". By the time Bush took over, a new bubble had started and things looked good until 2006. The whole economy was driven by home ownership and construction. Everybody got rich! Hurrah!

When I saw what was happening to house prices, I told my friends this is insanity. Who in gods name can afford to pay this kind of money for these miserable little homes. Where will working people live if everything costs more than $200K. If only Mr. Bush & Co. had been as smart as me...but they weren't and the bubble collapsed under its own weight. I've been buying houses that sold for $225K in 2005 for $37K to $45K over the last 3 years. So now, having a home made you poor and all those construction jobs went away.

Guess what. For the last 20 years, we haven't done **** for education in this country. Lip service all over the place - actions, virtually none.

Now we're in the robot era. Even those robots are being developed by other countries and America is running behind. So w buy a Japanese robot and replace 20 workers. The guys who run the robots better have an engineering degree and they'll make good, middle class wages. The uneducated are pretty much screwed and America is fighting about abortion and getting rid of the DOE and resisting progress and education.

My son is a programmer and 2/3 of his co-workers are Asian. They have no trouble getting good jobs.

I believe in America and we'll be manufacturing more and more. But we won't need unskilled labor. Certain products that need hand labor will not be in America. Too expensive. That's reality.

Regrettably, our underclass is growing and will become a permanent stain on our overall existence.

To quote Kurt Vonnegut, "so it goes".




It's funny that wages were just as cheap overseas during the Clinton years, yet our economy did very well with higher wages. Your argument doesn't hold water.
 
You just know that the right is in full panic mode when the following happens.

1) They start blaming the media for not showing their candidate in they fairytale view as they see him.
2) They start blaming the polling companies for being biased.. all of them, but those that show them ahead. They blame it on "over-sampling" or anti-right bias.
3) They start blaming the voters by calling them idiots and leaches on society.. as you can see in this thread.

All this actually shows that the polls are quite right in their results... ironically.
 
You just DO NOT GET IT

its not about ACCEPTING

ITS ABOUT REALITY. YOu cannot change the fact that other countries have labor that is much cheaper than American labor but just as competent.

That is nice, but until you can commute to those countries daily it is irrelevant to anything you are talking about. Simply the cost of living is high in America. So unless you also have the government step in and tell all the businesses to lower their costs you simply cannot drop the minimum wage to compete with foreign workers. This also happens in America. i used to live near NYC. It was a known fact that as you traveled out of NYC you lost 1k off your salary every mile. You also had much lower cost of living as you got out of the NYC suburbs. Many people made a lot of money there by sacrificing 2-3 hours of commute or more each day. many other people took less pay to work outside the city and had those hours of their life back.

The reality is that you just simply cannot cut the minimum wage like that because the greedy businesses are not going to cut cost of living expenses. if that is your idea then you go work for 5 dollars and hour and see how much you can get with that. otherwise america needs different solutions like protecting our markets. It is just simple, people like the chinese cannot get the US market anywhere else in the world.

Your worship of Obama is touching but his legislation cannot undo that fact. Corporations that pay 5 times the cost of labor cannot survive no matter how many tax cuts obama promises them.

There is actually a better solution. it is called tarrifs. you want to get cheapo labor in china and import then you will pay the same or more because the taxes. You want to avoid those high tarrifs? then you set up your company's manufacturing in the US. Your solution to knock us down to 5 cents and hour to compete just won't work without government intervention to lower prices. Then the government would have to get their noses into every thing we charge money for, and that simply is not possible.

Also, a good first step would be to cut off any tax relief a company gets for outsourcing jobs. that is something Romney will not implement because his investment value would plummet.
Obama also is too beholden to his class warfare ideals to figure out that his schemes to punish the successful drives success out of this country. using taxes to reward or punish people is one of the reasons why we are in the mess we are in now.

Oh your faux news talking points are just wrong. We all know that, and you should try thinking for yourself. This war and fighting crap is so old, and you should really learn to practice what you preach instead of being so divisive all the time.
the only way the middle class gets stronger is if they become more competitive and worth more wages than their counterparts in Asia or south america

There is simply no way to compete with a place where the cost of living is a small fraction of what it is here. At a certain point you would make more money a month on welfare than those people make. You8r ides have no basis in reality.
and sitting back and whining about the rich or sucking on the public teat isn't going to do that

this idea people want to suck off of welfare is such a load of crap. people want to work. They want to have things, and that means a job. You are so full of it pretending everyone wants all their stuff for free. it simply is not so, and you are living in a complete fantasy world. Come back from planet fox, and come back to reality.
you want high tech level wages-you learn hi tech skills.

Talk about your college lie. things work on supply and demand. if everyone just got high tech skills there would be an oversupply and the market would crash. We saw this years ago when labor caught up to the tech boom in the computer industry. there was such a demand for anyone with computer knowledge that they were hiring janitors who had computer hobbies as tech guys. Then everyone saw the big money and people jumped into the field. Now computer techs are a dime a dozen and their salaries have dropped significantly.

This whole lie that you get an education and you can write your own paycheck is a load of crap. It is the bull**** line every college tells their students to get their tuition sales up. The reality is that now 2 and 4 year degrees are common, and no one is going to hire you if that is all you have.
and its not my or anyone else in the top 5%'s fault that you don't have those skills

there are plenty of people out there with a college education who are unemployed, or underemployed. please, that is such a load of bull to blame people and tell them you will get a job if you go to college and get an education.

the other problem is due to the stupification of our school system by the religious right US degrees are not worth much compared to countries where education is kept at a high level. but we will all be saved if we let the christians force more creationism into science class. your chances of getting a biotech job when you think god did it is an actual answer are slim to none.
 
You just know that the right is in full panic mode when the following happens.

1) They start blaming the media for not showing their candidate in they fairytale view as they see him.
2) They start blaming the polling companies for being biased.. all of them, but those that show them ahead. They blame it on "over-sampling" or anti-right bias.
3) They start blaming the voters by calling them idiots and leaches on society.. as you can see in this thread.

All this actually shows that the polls are quite right in their results... ironically.

They are already blaming romney for the death of the party. The debates had not even happened before they were making excuses for why he lost. How many people have been blamed so far for the non-existent RNC and Paul Ryan Bumps? it is ryan's fault, it is Romney's fault, or perhaps it is clint eastwoods fault.

I will tell you who's fault it is. People are sick and tired of the moral tirade and bull**** wars that come from the right. This guy disagrees with the republicans and suddenly it is a war where their entire belief system is being destroyed so they have to destroy everyone to defend themselves. Sometimes people disagree and it is not even an argument. Religious extremism is dying, don't try to save it. Nothing is going to be saved by trying to force everyone to abide by christian laws and values. It just turns off everyone. They are dying because moderation is not an option, and everyone else is getting sick of having to hate everyone else all the time to be american in their eyes.

Republicans should have let the tea party have the loonies and started taking moderation and cooperation as part of who they are. They could have taken some of the middle ground and let the loonies migrate towards the tea party dumbasses. Instead they tied their ship to the tea party anchor which is pulling them under. They get more and morwe crazy every day, and they certainly are not the same republican party they were just 30 years ago.
 
the number of people who are sucking on the public teat or who are resentful of the successful apparently outnumber those in that state who are successful or who don't need the government to prosper

This post is wrong on so many levels. It is really disturbing that someone can be so far gone that this is what they believe.

Democrats don't believe what you think they believe. I'm really sorry you can't see that.
 
Just shows me the best way to be a 'success' in this country is to be born into a rich family and declare everyone else a loser.

Wadda country!
 
Just shows me the best way to be a 'success' in this country is to be born into a rich family and declare everyone else a loser.

Wadda country!

Is that how the following people became successful? Obama, Gates, Buffet, Clooney, Mahr, Letterman, Leno, Jobs, Henry Ford, Edison, Franklen, Lincoln, Elvis, Sammy Davis, Jonas Salk, Neil Armstrong, Babe Ruth, Brett Favre, Sinatra et al.

Just because you are not a success does not mean others cannot be.
 
Is that how the following people became successful? Obama, Gates, Buffet, Clooney, Mahr, Letterman, Leno, Jobs, Henry Ford, Edison, Franklen, Lincoln, Elvis, Sammy Davis, Jonas Salk, Neil Armstrong, Babe Ruth, Brett Favre, Sinatra et al.

Just because you are not a success does not mean others cannot be.
He didn't say it was the only way. He said it was the best way.
 
You just know that the right is in full panic mode when the following happens.

1) They start blaming the media for not showing their candidate in they fairytale view as they see him.
2) They start blaming the polling companies for being biased.. all of them, but those that show them ahead. They blame it on "over-sampling" or anti-right bias.
3) They start blaming the voters by calling them idiots and leaches on society.. as you can see in this thread.

All this actually shows that the polls are quite right in their results... ironically.

the media is biased to the left, its been proven many times
a poll of 1200 people out of 330,000,000 means nothing, polls are created to influence opinions, not report on them
much of the voting public is ignorant (ignorant does not mean stupid).
 
Meanwhile the electoral college numbers point unerringly to a second term.
 
Meanwhile the electoral college numbers point unerringly to a second term.

could be, the country will get what it votes for. If the country wants european socialism, massive debt, and a crashing economy, then reelecting obama will get it there quickly.
 
He didn't say it was the only way. He said it was the best way.

So you think Paris Hilton is successful? The "best" way to get rich is to work and earn it. The "easiest" way to get rich is to be born into it. quite a difference.
 
So you think Paris Hilton is successful? The "best" way to get rich is to work and earn it. The "easiest" way to get rich is to be born into it. quite a difference.

Not if you're using "best" to mean "easiest," which clearly that poster was doing.
 
Not if you're using "best" to mean "easiest," which clearly that poster was doing.

yeah, ok, I sometimes forget the lack of grammar and writing skills of many of the posters here. using the wrong word is a common mistake. best and easiest have totally different meanings, as you know.
 
yeah, ok, I sometimes forget the lack of grammar and writing skills of many of the posters here. using the wrong word is a common mistake. best and easiest have totally different meanings, as you know.


I don't think it was a grammar mistake, or anything like that...the "easy" path is what this generation is all about. Obama's acceleration of government dependency, and class warfare breeds this kind of childish jealousy.
 
I don't think it was a grammar mistake, or anything like that...the "easy" path is what this generation is all about. Obama's acceleration of government dependency, and class warfare breeds this kind of childish jealousy.

you are probably right, its really sad how our culture has been degraded by liberalism.
 
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