• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Romney Slams Chicago Teachers

cpwill said:
That is true. He merely shifted the debate to the actual big questions facing America.

Or at least, he shifted his half to it. Democrats, it seems, had already ordered all the "war on women" paraphenalia and are determined to get their money's worth...
Click to expand...

You willing to admit yet that choosing ryan has a chance to cost him the election
 
I never would have said it didn't. Mediscare is a tried and tested tactic because it has worked.

But most don't vote on the VP pick. If Romney loses, I would need to see serious data that demonstrated it was because of his VP selection.
 
but where do you stand on this, lpast? Chicago's police have had to flood the streets to take care of kids and do the jobs that teachers are supposed to do. Cops aren't allowed to go on strike - and with good reason.

Are you with the teachers union, or the kids on this one?
 
MaggieD said:
Obama is not going to go against the teachers' union. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain by taking sides. He's no fool...especially 2 months from the election. Should he speak up? Probably. Would he speak up the way I'd like him to? Probably not. So I'm just hoping he continues to be neutral.
Click to expand...

And yet, largely he has. True, he won't make a big play, but he does support polices they don't.
 
Mittens decides to try to score political points attacking working people in a union.

And in other breaking news the sun rose in the east this morning........
 
haymarket said:
Mittens decides to try to score political points attacking working people in a union.

And in other breaking news the sun rose in the east this morning........
Click to expand...

Rahm Emmanuel?
 
While there are more cops on the streets and collecting overtime making sure the kids dont start 'wilding', beyond that...I doubt the Chicago school teachers striking will have much of an impact on the education of Chicago's youth. Its not like their education record is 'stellar'. Hell...maybe they will start a trend...shut down all schools and let the kids fail without running up massive local and state debt.
 
I have mixed feelings on teachers today. The first is that they suck because almost all of them resist the requirements to be evaluated based on the success of their ability to actually teach the students. It is the only real requirement of their job to make sure they teach the students, and to say they should not face the same evaluations of any person in the work force for accomplishing the result of their employment is downright stupid. on the other hand the school administration and parents have stripped them of any ability to run a classroom by giving children the authority. When teachers cannot even rid themselves of unruly and disruptive students because their parents will have lawsuits then of course you won't be able to teach kids. Yes, that means certain children will pay the price for their disruptions in school and be bounced to special programs which will restrict them later. It is either that or let them ruin things for every other kid in the class like it is now. The teachers should be put back in charge of classes. things like cell phones, computers, pads, and video games removed from the classroom, unless it is a computer class. Then take all the kids who cannot sit down and shut up and send them to the schools for problem children where no one cares if they act up.

Of course, if we really want to save some money let us get rid of high paid shrinks, guidance counselors, and consolidate high paying administration positions. Cut out the useless before worrying about the teachers.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't fault him for that at all. He should keep his nose out of it. Anything he says at this particular time could cost him votes. No matter which side he were to come down on. I think we know which side he'd be most likely to support, anyway -- so it's kind of immaterial.
Click to expand...

You'd think he'd be a union supporter, but in this case, maybe not. He did promote the idea of using the Big Test to evaluate teachers, which is one of the harebrained ideas that motivated the strike.

and, yes, he should keep his nose out of it. Education is not in the purview of the federal government. What he should do is support closing the Department of Education and applying the money used to run it to deficit reduction.
 
Tuesday afternoon, thousands of teachers and their supporters took to the streets downtown, demanding a fair contract. Some held posters that blamed President Barack Obama for the impasse.

“President Obama We Are Under Attack, Was This Your Plan When You Sent Rahm Back?” the posters said.
Click to expand...

Teachers’ Strike To Enter Day 3; Union Boss Calls Progress ‘Glacial’ « CBS Chicago

they remember

Barack Obama promised to "walk on that picket line" if workers are denied the right to bargain, comfortable shoes - YouTube

the monster unleashed

kinda like occupy

Obama on Occupy: We are on their side - ABC News

party on, progressives

represent
 
well, to be fair, that only puts them in the top.... what, 5% of workers. ?
 
Travis007 said:
he hates kids..
Click to expand...

Seriously?

OpoQQ.jpg
 
The Prof said:
Occupiers support strike of nation’s highest-paid teachers | The Daily Caller

birds of a feather

105K for a 30 year vet working 181 seven-hour days per year, with a pension of 79K on top of that?

1%, anyone?

it's all about the kids be damned
Click to expand...

I call shennanigans on that. Here's a quote from the article:

“The average teacher who retired in 2011 after 30 or more years of employment—what passes for a full career in the public sector—had a final salary of $105,888 and will receive an annual guaranteed pension of $78,576,” Biggs wrote. “The salary puts the average Chicago teacher in the top 5% or so of workers nationwide, while even fewer private sector workers will receive a pension that generous.”

The top teacher salary possible in CPS is between 84,000 and 94,000, depending on their degrees. So I wonder how they got the 105k number. Are they counting administrators? Also, if you are only counting teachers who retire with 30 years of service you are only counting the highest paid teachers, so to say "the average" Chicago teacher is in the top 5% is inaccurate.

I'm not saying teachers aren't well compensated by any means. But I think you also have to consider how many people can actually last 30 years at CPS? That is a huge commitment to a very challenging job and I would argue that those that make it to the finish line have earned their compensation.

Also, you really have to remember that teaching is a more than full-time job while school is in session. I would argue that the vast majority of teachers put in a full years worth of work in the time school is in session.

And why don't people complain about firefighters sweet schedules? In Chicago, they work a 24 hour shift and then get two days off. Then they get every 5th on duty shift off. Now THAT'S a sweet schedule!

And I'm not really comparing fire fighters and teachers because they are incomparable on many levels. But teachers do their full years worth of work during the 39 weeks they are teaching just like firefighters do their full week in the two days they are on duty.
 
iacardsfan said:
I did not read all of that, all I can say is, of course Romney slammed them, he makes millions a year and does no manual or hard work, so naturally that would make him the most knowledgeable person. Teachers go through awful things, and I am venturing a guess that Chicago Public Schools are not the nicest schools out there. Romney has not clue what it would be like to work there (not that I do either), it is certainly different then his "work".
Click to expand...

Founding a private equity firm is a hell of a lot harder than being a public school teacher. That's why Romney deserves to make millions more than public school teachers.

Also I'm sure Romney does a ton of "hard work".



P.S. I'm voting Obama
 
nathanj63 said:
I call shennanigans on that. Here's a quote from the article:

“The average teacher who retired in 2011 after 30 or more years of employment—what passes for a full career in the public sector—had a final salary of $105,888 and will receive an annual guaranteed pension of $78,576,” Biggs wrote. “The salary puts the average Chicago teacher in the top 5% or so of workers nationwide, while even fewer private sector workers will receive a pension that generous.”

The top teacher salary possible in CPS is between 84,000 and 94,000, depending on their degrees. So I wonder how they got the 105k number. Are they counting administrators? Also, if you are only counting teachers who retire with 30 years of service you are only counting the highest paid teachers, so to say "the average" Chicago teacher is in the top 5% is inaccurate.

I'm not saying teachers aren't well compensated by any means. But I think you also have to consider how many people can actually last 30 years at CPS? That is a huge commitment to a very challenging job and I would argue that those that make it to the finish line have earned their compensation.

Also, you really have to remember that teaching is a more than full-time job while school is in session. I would argue that the vast majority of teachers put in a full years worth of work in the time school is in session.

And why don't people complain about firefighters sweet schedules? In Chicago, they work a 24 hour shift and then get two days off. Then they get every 5th on duty shift off. Now THAT'S a sweet schedule!

And I'm not really comparing fire fighters and teachers because they are incomparable on many levels. But teachers do their full years worth of work during the 39 weeks they are teaching just like firefighters do their full week in the two days they are on duty.
Click to expand...

disgusting... Liberal propogandists getting paid way too much, not being held accountable, cant be fired, as they poison the kids minds to hate the GOP and worship Obama...

and our tax dollars are used...

get rid of this system, NO MORE UNIONS ... they are out dated and not needed
 
Voltaire X said:
Founding a private equity firm is a hell of a lot harder than being a public school teacher. That's why Romney deserves to make millions more than public school teachers.

Also I'm sure Romney does a ton of "hard work".



P.S. I'm voting Obama
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, do you have experience with both?
 
Voltaire X said:
Founding a private equity firm is a hell of a lot harder than being a public school teacher. That's why Romney deserves to make millions more than public school teachers.

Also I'm sure Romney does a ton of "hard work".



P.S. I'm voting Obama
Click to expand...

actually it is.. and its much higher risk... no benies, no paid vaca... nobody not allowing for you to fail or be fired.. its actually being paid on results.. fair market, competition...

get rid of the unions... no need for them..
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Sometimes short posts are better than long posts. Just saying
Click to expand...

I'd like to give you some like. But I see you have given none. Sometimes being nice goes a long way. Just saying.
 
Phys251 said:
Out of curiosity, do you have experience with both?
Click to expand...

No, but if it was harder to be a public school teacher, they'd get paid more. Why? Because only more qualified people would be able to become teachers, and higher salaries are required to attract highly qualified people.
 
tererun said:
I have mixed feelings on teachers today. The first is that they suck because almost all of them resist the requirements to be evaluated based on the success of their ability to actually teach the students. It is the only real requirement of their job to make sure they teach the students, and to say they should not face the same evaluations of any person in the work force for accomplishing the result of their employment is downright stupid.
Click to expand...

This I agree with

on the other hand the school administration and parents have stripped them of any ability to run a classroom by giving children the authority. When teachers cannot even rid themselves of unruly and disruptive students because their parents will have lawsuits then of course you won't be able to teach kids. Yes, that means certain children will pay the price for their disruptions in school and be bounced to special programs which will restrict them later. It is either that or let them ruin things for every other kid in the class like it is now. The teachers should be put back in charge of classes. things like cell phones, computers, pads, and video games removed from the classroom, unless it is a computer class. Then take all the kids who cannot sit down and shut up and send them to the schools for problem children where no one cares if they act up.
Click to expand...

This I also agree with, but the two are completely different issues, and both have to be dealt with separately

Of course, if we really want to save some money let us get rid of high paid shrinks, guidance counselors, and consolidate high paying administration positions. Cut out the useless before worrying about the teachers.
Click to expand...

This is also good.

But IMO the real solution is a voucher system, then the parents can choose the school that they feel will best teach their children. This would enable parents to enter their children in private schools that are not union and can impose the strict rules you speak of. They are not bound by the public school system that the Union teachers have destroyed.
 
Voltaire X said:
No, but if it was harder to be a public school teacher, they'd get paid more. Why? Because only more qualified people would be able to become teachers, and higher salaries are required to attract highly qualified people.
Click to expand...

Then how can you know that your position on this matter is accurate?
 
Voltaire X said:
No, but if it was harder to be a public school teacher, they'd get paid more. Why? Because only more qualified people would be able to become teachers, and higher salaries are required to attract highly qualified people.
Click to expand...

.....Sort of. Currently it doesn't matters a lot less how hard teaching is, because teachers by and large are not compensated based on production. If someone offered me a $500,000 a year contract to be an NFL football player, but agreed never to fire or reduce my pay because of poor performance on the field, I would happily be the lowest paid worst player in the NFL for decades :).

Currently our compensation for teachers is set up to attract middling to poor performers who seek security over pay. And that is what we are getting. If we want higher performers, then we need to make the job force competitive and then raise pay (not total compensation over a working lifetime) in order to attract them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom