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FactCheck.org weighs in on Democratic convention speeches...

MaggieD

MaggieD

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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — We heard a number of dubious or misleading claims on the first night of the Democratic National Convention:
  • The keynote speaker and others claimed the Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, would raise taxes on the “middle class.” He has promised he won’t. Democrats base their claim on a study that doesn’t necessarily lead to that conclusion.
  • The keynote speaker, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, also said there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under Obama. The fact is the economy has regained only 4 million of the 4.3 million jobs lost since Obama took office.
  • Castro also insisted Romney and Ryan would “gut” Pell Grants for lower-income college students. Actually, the Ryan budget calls only for “limiting the growth” of spending for the program, and Ryan has said the maximum grant of $5,550 would not be decreased.
  • A Democratic governor said Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” Actually, Massachusetts went from 50th in job creation during Romney’s first year to 28th in his final year.
  • Two advocates of equal-pay legislation said women make 77 cents for every dollar men earn. That’s true on average, but the gap for women doing the same work as men is much less, and not entirely or even mostly the result of job discrimination.
  • A union president accused Romney of seeking “a government bailout” for “his company.” Not really. In fact, Romney negotiated a favorable but routine settlement with bank regulators on behalf of a former company, the one he had left to form his own Bain Capital firm. No taxpayer funds were involved.
  • Multiple speakers repeated a claim that the Ryan/Romney Medicare plan would cost seniors $6,400 a year. That’s a figure that applied to Ryan’s 2011 budget plan, but his current proposal (the one Romney embraces) is far more generous. The Congressional Budget Office says it “may” lead to higher costs for beneficiaries, but it can’t estimate how much.
  • In prepared remarks released to reporters, Rep. James Clyburn engaged in partisan myth-making with the claim “Democrats created Social Security” while Republicans “cursed the darkness.” History records strong bipartisan support in both House and Senate for the measure President Roosevelt signed in 1935.
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Much more at FactCheck.org : Democratic Disinformation from Charlotte
 
 
MaggieD said:
Oh, well that makes it all right then. :roll:

The nanny-nanny-boo-boo debate tactic strikes again.
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No, it doesn't make it all right. I'm just pointing out that they both do it, and at least according to the fact checkers, the Republicans do it a whole lot more.

But, I would also add that whether or not it is "all right" is actually kind of a tricky question. It is easy when you read these things to think that if the fact checkers reject a claim then the person making that claim must have made the conscious decision to go out and lie. That isn't really the case. For example, the Democrats consistently talked about 4.5 million jobs created IN THE PAST 27 MONTHS. Factcheck counters that by saying that the jobs created didn't make up for the jobs lost BEFORE that time. That doesn't really mean that what the Democrats said was not true, it just means that the fact checkers think it ought to be framed in a broader context. But is that necessarily true? The point the Democrats are trying to emphasize is that we're on the right path. In their view, the job losses in the first year of Obama's presidency were not the result of his path, but the lingering results of Bush's path. So, focusing on the later couple of years is what is relevant in their view. Anyways, my point is just that we should not automatically equate failing a fact check with lying. Sometimes they're the same thing, sometimes they are not.
 
teamosil said:
No, it doesn't make it all right. I'm just pointing out that they both do it, and at least according to the fact checkers, the Republicans do it a whole lot more.

But, I would also add that whether or not it is "all right" is actually kind of a tricky question. It is easy when you read these things to think that if the fact checkers reject a claim then the person making that claim must have made the conscious decision to go out and lie. That isn't really the case. For example, the Democrats consistently talked about 4.5 million jobs created IN THE PAST 27 MONTHS. Factcheck counters that by saying that the jobs created didn't make up for the jobs lost BEFORE that time. That doesn't really mean that what the Democrats said was not true, it just means that the fact checkers think it ought to be framed in a broader context. But is that necessarily true? The point the Democrats are trying to emphasize is that we're on the right path. In their view, the job losses in the first year of Obama's presidency were not the result of his path, but the lingering results of Bush's path. So, focusing on the later couple of years is what is relevant in their view. Anyways, my point is just that we should not automatically equate failing a fact check with lying. Sometimes they're the same thing, sometimes they are not.
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Then perhaps you should have left out the nanny-nanny-boo-boo part and just went with this.
 
MaggieD said:
Oh, well that makes it all right then. :roll:

The nanny-nanny-boo-boo debate tactic strikes again.
Click to expand...

No; your own source strikes again . .

(chuckle)
 
teamosil said:
No, it doesn't make it all right. I'm just pointing out that they both do it, and at least according to the fact checkers, the Republicans do it a whole lot more.
Click to expand...

Then start your own damn thread about it. Since you didn't notice, the title of the thread has 'weighs in on Democratic convention speeches' in it. Maggie hit the nail on the head about you and your post.

If you'd like to talk about the lies and half truths in the DNC speeches, please comment, otherwise, go start a thread so you can complain about the RNC speeches...

It's crap like this that is why this place is sucking more and more....
 
Time to vote third party, eh?
 
And let's not forget the outrageous, despicable, and FALSE claims/attacks we heard out of the mouths of some of the speakers... Like for instance that if elected, Mitt Romney would:

raise taxes on middle class...
take away women's right to vote...
take away women's right to abortion...
take away women's right to quality education...
take away equal pay for women...
take away women's access to health care...
take away women's access to birth control pills...
And my personal favorite... that he would return America to the discrimination and violence against blacks that took place in the 1950's and 1960's​

I have never in my life, seen such a disgusting and shameful display of dishonest, slime ball politics. Seriously, how can you democrats tolerate such despicable behavior out of the people that represent your beliefs?
 
teamosil said:
Factcheck.org found far more dishonest or misleading statements from the RNC convention-

FactCheck.org : Republican Retreads from Tampa
FactCheck.org : Ryan’s VP Spin
FactCheck.org : Romney’s Sorry ‘Apology’ Dig
FactCheck.org : Romney’s Big Night
FactCheck.org : Santorum’s Distorted ‘Dependency’ Claims
FactCheck.org : Christie’s Fact-Free Keynote
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How about you address the topic, instead of trying to change it?

That would be the HONEST thing to do... Wouldn't you agree?
 
Arbo said:
Then start your own damn thread about it. Since you didn't notice, the title of the thread has 'weighs in on Democratic convention speeches' in it. Maggie hit the nail on the head about you and your post.

If you'd like to talk about the lies and half truths in the DNC speeches, please comment, otherwise, go start a thread so you can complain about the RNC speeches...

It's crap like this that is why this place is sucking more and more....
Click to expand...

LOL. So pointing out fact checking issues with Democratic speeches only- that's just sensible sharing of information. But pointing out the same thing about Republicans! That is crazy partisanship! Aeeieieieieieie!

Fail.
 
teamosil said:
LOL. So pointing out fact checking issues with Democratic speeches only- that's just sensible sharing of information. But pointing out the same thing about Republicans! That is crazy partisanship! Aeeieieieieieie!

Fail.
Click to expand...

The fail is your incorrect understanding of my post. Big time. The point is, the very first response to the thread, you went into 'shift the topic' mode. As said, if you want to bitch about the RNC convention speeches, then start a thread. It's not that hard, I 'm sure you can find the button to create one.
 
teamosil said:
No, it doesn't make it all right. I'm just pointing out that they both do it, and at least according to the fact checkers, the Republicans do it a whole lot more.

But, I would also add that whether or not it is "all right" is actually kind of a tricky question. It is easy when you read these things to think that if the fact checkers reject a claim then the person making that claim must have made the conscious decision to go out and lie. That isn't really the case. For example, the Democrats consistently talked about 4.5 million jobs created IN THE PAST 27 MONTHS. Factcheck counters that by saying that the jobs created didn't make up for the jobs lost BEFORE that time. That doesn't really mean that what the Democrats said was not true, it just means that the fact checkers think it ought to be framed in a broader context. But is that necessarily true? The point the Democrats are trying to emphasize is that we're on the right path. In their view, the job losses in the first year of Obama's presidency were not the result of his path, but the lingering results of Bush's path. So, focusing on the later couple of years is what is relevant in their view. Anyways, my point is just that we should not automatically equate failing a fact check with lying. Sometimes they're the same thing, sometimes they are not.
Click to expand...

And no one points out that during Obama's first year there were no credit markets available which was a consequence of the financial meltdown of the economy. This made job creation impossible.
 
Arbo said:
The fail is your incorrect understanding of my post. Big time. The point is, the very first response to the thread, you went into 'shift the topic' mode. As said, if you want to bitch about the RNC convention speeches, then start a thread. It's not that hard, I 'm sure you can find the button to create one.
Click to expand...

LOL yeah right... Next I'll go start a thread entitled "Republicans suck" and then anybody who disagrees or complains about Democrats is off topic!

Kids, if you want to debate this stuff, you need to debate this stuff. You can't just rant and expect everybody to sit quietly by nodding.
 
Grim17 said:
And let's not forget the outrageous, despicable, and FALSE claims/attacks we heard out of the mouths of some of the speakers... Like for instance that if elected, Mitt Romney would:

raise taxes on middle class... He very well might. He'd definitely gut their benefits.
take away women's right to vote... Post proof or retract.
take away women's right to abortion... He would do everything in his power to suppress it.
take away women's right to quality education... He would.
take away equal pay for women... He could do much to clarify this.
take away women's access to health care... He would cripple it, especially for the poor and elderly.
take away women's access to birth control pills... If the personhood amendment passes, then this would happen.
And my personal favorite... that he would return America to the discrimination and violence against blacks that took place in the 1950's and 1960's Post proof or retract.​
Click to expand...

I have never in my life, seen such a disgusting and shameful display of dishonest, slime ball politics. Seriously, how can you Republicans tolerate such despicable behavior out of the people that represent your beliefs?
Click to expand...

FIFY. See Matthew 7:3-5.
 
teamosil said:
LOL yeah right...
Click to expand...

No seriously, I am certain you can look around on your screen and find the button that let's you start a new thread. I have faith in your ability to do that. Don't count yourself short.

It's the best path for you to take, as it has already been established that you have nothing to say about the lies and half truths that came out of the convention of the guys you have blind faith in.
 
teamosil said:
LOL yeah right... Next I'll go start a thread entitled "Republicans suck" and then anybody who disagrees or complains about Democrats is off topic!

Kids, if you want to debate this stuff, you need to debate this stuff. You can't just rant and expect everybody to sit quietly by nodding.
Click to expand...

"Not surprisingly, the very conservatives who love to hurl invective against the ranks of their enemies prove to have the thinnest of skins when the same is done to them."

--John Dean, Conservatives Without Conscience
 
jet57 said:
No; your own source strikes again . .

(chuckle)
Click to expand...

teamosil said:
LOL. So pointing out fact checking issues with Democratic speeches only- that's just sensible sharing of information. But pointing out the same thing about Republicans! That is crazy partisanship! Aeeieieieieieie!

Fail.
Click to expand...

teamosil said:
LOL yeah right... Next I'll go start a thread entitled "Republicans suck" and then anybody who disagrees or complains about Democrats is off topic!

Kids, if you want to debate this stuff, you need to debate this stuff. You can't just rant and expect everybody to sit quietly by nodding.
Click to expand...

I posted fact checking information on Democrats. I didn't comment on it -- I didn't villify Democrats. If the best you've got is "Yeah, well the Pubs do it too?" Start your own damned thread. This place is like a freakin' zoo. And PS -- the only ranters are the Democrats. Unfreakin' believable.
 
MaggieD said:
I posted fact checking information on Democrats. I didn't comment on it -- I didn't villify Democrats. If the best you've got is "Yeah, well the Pubs do it too?" Start your own damned thread. This place is like a freakin' zoo. And PS -- the only ranters are the Democrats. Unfreakin' believable.
Click to expand...

I posted fact checking information on Republicans. I didn't comment on it -- I didn't villify Republicans.
 
Grim17 said:
And let's not forget the outrageous, despicable, and FALSE claims/attacks we heard out of the mouths of some of the speakers... Like for instance that if elected, Mitt Romney would:

raise taxes on middle class...
take away women's right to vote...
take away women's right to abortion...
take away women's right to quality education...
take away equal pay for women...
take away women's access to health care...
take away women's access to birth control pills...
And my personal favorite... that he would return America to the discrimination and violence against blacks that took place in the 1950's and 1960's​

I have never in my life, seen such a disgusting and shameful display of dishonest, slime ball politics. Seriously, how can you democrats tolerate such despicable behavior out of the people that represent your beliefs?
Click to expand...

A lot of that is in the Republican platform.
 
teamosil said:
I posted fact checking information on Republicans. I didn't comment on it
Click to expand...

Didn't comment on it? Hmm...

teamosil said:
Factcheck.org found far more dishonest or misleading statements from the RNC convention-
Click to expand...

Interesting, but that looks like a comment. I guess based on the dictionary that would mean your statement about not commenting on it can be called a lie. Probably intentional, unless you already forgot what you posted. Did you forget what you posted?
 
MaggieD said:
I posted fact checking information on Democrats. I didn't comment on it -- I didn't villify Democrats. If the best you've got is "Yeah, well the Pubs do it too?" Start your own damned thread. This place is like a freakin' zoo. And PS -- the only ranters are the Democrats. Unfreakin' believable.
Click to expand...

Just - bein - fair and balanced . . .
 
Arbo said:
Didn't comment on it? Hmm...



Interesting, but that looks like a comment. I guess based on the dictionary that would mean your statement about not commenting on it can be called a lie. Probably intentional, unless you already forgot what you posted. Did you forget what you posted?
Click to expand...

Try and follow the conversation Arbo.
 
teamosil said:
Try and follow the conversation Arbo.
Click to expand...

You fail at trying to suggest I don't know how the thread started, how you came into it, and how you tried to copy Maggie with your statement. The problem is, when you try to mimic her with your failed mocking, you are either intentionally telling a lie, or showing you can't remember what you posted just a matter of minutes ago.

So which is it? Just give us an answer. The diversion won't work, you've been caught.
 
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