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The two biggest lies

S

shiang

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"We have less jobs than we did four years ago"

"Our economy is worse than it was four years ago"

It's simply not true and makes me sick to my stomach to see it over and over again.

Reason why they do this? If you tell a lie enough times eventually some people will believe you.

...of course they probably mean jobs by "bonus of CEO's who crash companies" that's mitt Romney job and I hope he's out of work soon.
 
shiang said:
"We have less jobs than we did four years ago"

"Our economy is worse than it was four years ago"

It's simply not true and makes me sick to my stomach to see it over and over again.

Reason why they do this? If you tell a lie enough times eventually some people will believe you.

...of course they probably mean jobs by "bonus of CEO's who crash companies" that's mitt Romney job and I hope he's out of work soon.
Click to expand...

Neither statement is an outright lie depending on what factors they wish to use to define "better" or "worse". On whether "4 years ago" is literally 4 years ago (meaning we're back in Bush's term in office), referring to Obama's term, or referring to some other specific time period after Obama's term started. And on whether you're speaking about "jobs" in the notion of hard number positions available or as a percentage of the total population. Those two statements, without context, are not unequivocally true OR false.
 
shiang said:
"We have less jobs than we did four years ago"

"Our economy is worse than it was four years ago"

It's simply not true and makes me sick to my stomach to see it over and over again.

Reason why they do this? If you tell a lie enough times eventually some people will believe you.

...of course they probably mean jobs by "bonus of CEO's who crash companies" that's mitt Romney job and I hope he's out of work soon.
Click to expand...



The latest month for which the BLS lists stats is July 2012. Total employed in the USA is 142,220,000.

Same month four years ago was July, 2008. At that time in that year, Total employed was 145,819,000.

You are are factually incorrect. Ignorant or disingenuous?

There were 3.5 million more employed and 11 million fewer alive. The household income average of the USA is down by $4,000 per house.

If you are in love with the Big 0, I can understand that, Why lie about his record?

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_08012008.pdf
 
Zyphlin said:
Neither statement is an outright lie depending on what factors they wish to use to define "better" or "worse". On whether "4 years ago" is literally 4 years ago (meaning we're back in Bush's term in office), referring to Obama's term, or referring to some other specific time period after Obama's term started. And on whether you're speaking about "jobs" in the notion of hard number positions available or as a percentage of the total population. Those two statements, without context, are not unequivocally true OR false.
Click to expand...



By any metric, both statements are unequivocally true.
 
shiang said:
"We have less jobs than we did four years ago"

"Our economy is worse than it was four years ago"

It's simply not true and makes me sick to my stomach to see it over and over again.

Reason why they do this? If you tell a lie enough times eventually some people will believe you.

...of course they probably mean jobs by "bonus of CEO's who crash companies" that's mitt Romney job and I hope he's out of work soon.
Click to expand...

Zyphlin said:
This also is not true
Click to expand...

The ONLY one that anyone can actually rationally give you is the fact that the economy is better than it was 4 years ago. Obama did take on a hell of a task with the economy and we are increasing every month rather than decreasing like when he took office. The problem here is that we're increasing less than anyone wanted/anticipated (especially Obama and his projections...but on the other hand that goes along with almost any projections when he first took office).

The jobs numbers...we might be somewhere around the same line but the actual income has decreased overall of middle class and down. This can not at all be labeled as a good thing. We lost many good jobs, many people are doing the same jobs for less, but they still have jobs.

Honestly I'm not sure if I can give Obama credit (positive or negative) for any numbers. The parties themselves are to blame for all shortcomings.
 
code1211 said:
The latest month for which the BLS lists stats is July 2012. Total employed in the USA is 142,220,000.

Same month four years ago was July, 2008. At that time in that year, Total employed was 145,819,000.

You are are factually incorrect. Ignorant or disingenuous?

There were 3.5 million more employed and 11 million fewer alive. The household income average of the USA is down by $4,000 per house.

If you are in love with the Big 0, I can understand that, Why lie about his record?

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_08012008.pdf
Click to expand...

I don't know about you but those two graphs from the link end in 2008....? ...nice try. I read on some more in case if I missed something still all end in July 2008, not July 2012.

Not saying things are dandy just saying we've come a long way since a near depression.
 
Last edited:
code1211 said:
The latest month for which the BLS lists stats is July 2012. Total employed in the USA is 142,220,000.

Same month four years ago was July, 2008. At that time in that year, Total employed was 145,819,000.

You are are factually incorrect. Ignorant or disingenuous?

There were 3.5 million more employed and 11 million fewer alive. The household income average of the USA is down by $4,000 per house.

If you are in love with the Big 0, I can understand that, Why lie about his record?

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_08012008.pdf
Click to expand...




Whoopsie! Got that backwards. The are 3.5 millionFEWER employed and 11 million MORE alive.
 
KopeAcetic said:
The ONLY one that anyone can actually rationally give you is the fact that the economy is better than it was 4 years ago. Obama did take on a hell of a task with the economy and we are increasing every month rather than decreasing like when he took office. The problem here is that we're increasing less than anyone wanted/anticipated (especially Obama and his projections...but on the other hand that goes along with almost any projections when he first took office).

The jobs numbers...we might be somewhere around the same line but the actual income has decreased overall of middle class and down. This can not at all be labeled as a good thing. We lost many good jobs, many people are doing the same jobs for less, but they still have jobs.

Honestly I'm not sure if I can give Obama credit (positive or negative) for any numbers. The parties themselves are to blame for all shortcomings.
Click to expand...



Obama stands an excellent chance of being the first President in the history of the republic to have fewer people employed when he leaves office than when he entered office.

I don't care who you are. That's impressive.
 
shiang said:
I don't know about you but those two graphs from the link end in 2008....? ...nice try. I read on some more in case if I missed something still all end in July 2008, not July 2012.

Not saying things are dandy just saying we've come a long way since a near depression.
Click to expand...



Read the statistics from the tables. You can navigate this site very easily.
 
shiang said:
I don't know about you but those two graphs from the link end in 2008....? ...nice try. I read on some more in case if I missed something still all end in July 2008, not July 2012.

Not saying things are dandy just saying we've come a long way since a near depression.
Click to expand...



I clicked on the link and it went to the table after the "contents" page. Sorry.

THIS link will bring you to the table that allows you to browse all of the years and compare month to month.

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/empsit_nr.htm
 
code1211 said:
Obama stands an excellent chance of being the first President in the history of the republic to have fewer people employed when he leaves office than when he entered office.

I don't care who you are. That's impressive.
Click to expand...

I didn't say Obama did a great job, I was just debating his points. In most (if not all) debatable facets, the economy is better now than when Obama took office.
 
Well, there are definitely less people employed today then there was 4 years ago and only 86 thousand more than the day Obama took office. Too bad the population and number of eligible workers hasn't stayed the same, or things might actually look ok:

employed.jpg
 
KopeAcetic said:
I didn't say Obama did a great job, I was just debating his points. In most (if not all) debatable facets, the economy is better now than when Obama took office.
Click to expand...

the BLS stats prove you wrong on your claim that obama has created a net increase in jobs, its a net decrease and the dems cannot change those facts by continuing to lie about them.

What are the stats that you think show obama's success?
 
Bobcat said:
the BLS stats prove you wrong on your claim that obama has created a net increase in jobs, its a net decrease and the dems cannot change those facts by continuing to lie about them.

What are the stats that you think show obama's success?
Click to expand...

Um...where did I talk about net increase or decrease in jobs? Please read all statements leading up to that in order. I was debating a single point: The economy is in a better position currently than when Obama first took office. That's it, that's the point. No other implications, just that point. I'm not talking about jobs, median income, high end income, low end income, none of it. Economy as a whole.
 
KopeAcetic said:
Um...where did I talk about net increase or decrease in jobs? Please read all statements leading up to that in order. I was debating a single point: The economy is in a better position currently than when Obama first took office. That's it, that's the point. No other implications, just that point. I'm not talking about jobs, median income, high end income, low end income, none of it. Economy as a whole.
Click to expand...

What method do you use to rate the economy, that that leads you to that conclusion?
 
shiang said:
"We have less jobs than we did four years ago"

"Our economy is worse than it was four years ago"

It's simply not true and makes me sick to my stomach to see it over and over again.

Reason why they do this? If you tell a lie enough times eventually some people will believe you.

...of course they probably mean jobs by "bonus of CEO's who crash companies" that's mitt Romney job and I hope he's out of work soon.
Click to expand...

Wow. It's pretty cool just to be able to say, "It's simply not true." :rofl
 
Grim17 said:
What method do you use to rate the economy, that that leads you to that conclusion?
Click to expand...

With how many jobs we were losing when Obama first took office, even if the overall job numbers are lower, we are currently in a recovery phase which is generally looked upon as better than hemorrhaging jobs.

Again I'm not saying any of the individuals in power did an awesome job, the only point I'm trying to make is that the economy is in a better position than when Obama first took office.
 
KopeAcetic said:
With how many jobs we were losing when Obama first took office, even if the overall job numbers are lower, we are currently in a recovery phase which is generally looked upon as better than hemorrhaging jobs.

Again I'm not saying any of the individuals in power did an awesome job, the only point I'm trying to make is that the economy is in a better position than when Obama first took office.
Click to expand...

But its not. the country is further in debt, housing values are down, unemployment is up, inflation is up, gas prices have doubled, grocery prices are up.

Nothing is better, wake up.
 
Bobcat said:
But its not. the country is further in debt, housing values are down, unemployment is up, inflation is up, gas prices have doubled, grocery prices are up.

Nothing is better, wake up.
Click to expand...

Please stop with the wake up crap, that's ridiculous, both the left and the right say that and it only shows that you have a one sided, closed mind.

If you want to get into a debate I'm fine with that, in fact that's the whole reason I'm here, but statements like that, yeah I don't think there's any point in actually debating individuals that are obviously not even open to new ideas.
 
KopeAcetic said:
Please stop with the wake up crap, that's ridiculous, both the left and the right say that and it only shows that you have a one sided, closed mind.

If you want to get into a debate I'm fine with that, in fact that's the whole reason I'm here, but statements like that, yeah I don't think there's any point in actually debating individuals that are obviously not even open to new ideas.
Click to expand...

well if the shoe fits-----------

you statements that the economy has improved just prove that you are either not awake or a pawn of the left. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you have been sleeping for the last 4 years.
 
KopeAcetic said:
With how many jobs we were losing when Obama first took office, even if the overall job numbers are lower, we are currently in a recovery phase which is generally looked upon as better than hemorrhaging jobs.

Again I'm not saying any of the individuals in power did an awesome job, the only point I'm trying to make is that the economy is in a better position than when Obama first took office.
Click to expand...

Do you realize that there are only 86,000 more people employed today then there was the day he took office, while at the same time there are nearly 9 million more people in the eligible workforce?

To put that into perspective, lets assume that every person who was employed when he took office, is still employed today. That means that of the 8,827,000 people that have been added to the eligible workforce due to population growth since January 2009, less than 1% of them (0.97%) are employed?

Is this what you call a recovery?
 
shiang said:
"We have less jobs than we did four years ago"

"Our economy is worse than it was four years ago"

It's simply not true and makes me sick to my stomach to see it over and over again.

Reason why they do this? If you tell a lie enough times eventually some people will believe you.

...of course they probably mean jobs by "bonus of CEO's who crash companies" that's mitt Romney job and I hope he's out of work soon.
Click to expand...

I cant find where anyone made the first statement, could you post your source? The second one is an opinion, thus not possible of being a lie (although I cant find that quote either)
 
jonny5 said:
I cant find where anyone made the first statement, could you post your source? The second one is an opinion, thus not possible of being a lie.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be stated... It's a statistical FACT.
 
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