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Paul Ryan -- Maggie apologizes in advance. ;)

I think you are passing judgement on something you know nothing about.

The whole of Debate Politics passes judgement on things they know nothing about. Please don't take away our fun.
 
The whole of Debate Politics passes judgement on things they know nothing about. Please don't take away our fun.

Well, I don't agree with that. Debate is about giving opinions. What you have said about Obama and his brother is passing judgement not an opinion. And I would never take away your fun.
 
Well, I don't agree with that. Debate is about giving opinions. What you have said about Obama and his brother is passing judgement not an opinion. And I would never take away your fun.

My OPINION is that President Obama has left his half-brother twisting in the wind. Opinions are all about passing judgement. Give me an example of one that isn't.
 
There is one very telling line in your post Maggie...." Paul Ryan wants to cut government waste". The reality is that "Government waste" to Republicans is Medicare/Medicaid....it is Social Security.....it is student aid. So keep that in mind when you read about how Republicans want to shrink government and cut government waste.
 
My OPINION is that President Obama has left his half-brother twisting in the wind. Opinions are all about passing judgement. Give me an example of one that isn't.

How do you know he left his half-brother twisting in the wind?
 
This is a perspective i don't get at all. First I have the problem of viewing anyone who has gotten to the upper state or federal level in politics to be an honest and good person. You just don't get there without climbing over other people, lying, backstabbing, and figuratively eating your own.

If you really believe this, then I'm guessing that you don't actually know anybody who gotten to the upper state or fed level. I do. I know decent, honorable elected reps who don't lie or backstab. Some are Republicans while others are Democrats. Fine people whose spouses and kids I also know. It's unfair to overgeneralize in the way you have here.
 
They forgot to mention his family is rich, a $7.50 million fortune from a family tradition of living off the Govt. "teat" as you guys put it. You see all the Ryan's family fortune came from Govt. contracts to build roads.

Aha!!!

Ryan built those roads, not Obama.
 
They forgot to mention his family is rich, a $7.50 million fortune from a family tradition of living off the Govt. "teat" as you guys put it. You see all the Ryan's family fortune came from Govt. contracts to build roads.
Not to mention, Ryan has spent half his life in Washington the whole time spent making himself one of the most powerful men in D.C. . Yet he is a "grass roots" Teaparty favorite. Go figure.

How about a link?? Or don't Liberals require proof?
 
How about a link?? Or don't Liberals require proof?

Don't conservatives know how to google? Here you go...

The Ryan Incorporated Central webpage on the company's history says, "By the 1940's the Company had become a full-service grading contractor serving both private industrial and public transportation customers, including some of the original work at what would become O'Hare Airport."

But on the website for Ryan Incorporated Southern, headquartered in Florida (there are various divisions of Ryan and, yes, still from the company founded by his great-grandfather that's run by Ryan's cousins), it's a bit more explicit: "The Ryan workload from 1910 until the rural interstate Highway System was completed 60 years later, was mostly Highway construction."

And whose money built the interstate highway system? That'd be ours.

In other words, you know how Barack Obama talked about how your business didn't build the roads that allow you to do business? Well, if you are in the Midwest, chances are that Paul Ryan's family did build some of the roads. And they got to be amazingly successful because the federal government gave them six decades of contracts and millions upon millions of dollars to build them.

Are we clear here? We're talking about Paul Ryan, who, with his wife, is worth as much as $7.7 million and "much of the Ryans’ wealth is in the form of trusts and inheritances." For Rep. Ryan, those trusts and inheritances are a result of money that the federal government spent on infrastructure.

You wanna go further? Here's a list of defense contracts from the 1990s that went to Ryan Incorporated in its various forms. One of them, from 1996, is worth $5.6 million and went to Ryan Incorporated Central.

So, just to get this right, Paul Ryan and his family are beneficiaries of expanded government spending to improve infrastructure. They continue to benefit from government contracts, including state and local ones. That's Paul Ryan, whose budget would inevitably gut most infrastructure spending and who, with Mitt Romney, wants to shrink federal spending to the point where, if the federal government had felt that way throughout a good chunk of the 20th century, his family would not have made a dime and, well, then we would have never heard about Paul Ryan.

That's the depth of hypocrisy in play here.

The Rude Pundit
 
Look, Ryan doesn't seem like a bad guy to me - in fact, he's nothing more than a normal American dealing with the same crap you and I are. The problem I have is that he has the audacity to align himself with the party he does. Even if you ignore that flat bigotry involved in his social views, and look only at his Trickle Down Economics(to be distinguished from SSE), he's still not what our country needs. Can a person really have so much faith in the free market that they'd let it run wild? Ever heard of a little company called Enron? Ever read a novel called A Civil Action? Ever heard of a country called Argentina? Trickle down economics simply don't work - there's evidence to support that - and a politician who ignores that, while advocating for their implementation... well, let's just say he's lost my vote. If you want to go in to his social views, they're no better.
Though best known as an architect of conservative fiscal policy, Representative Paul D. Ryan has also been an ardent, unwavering foe of abortion rights, has tried to cut off federal money for family planning, has opposed same-sex marriage and has championed the rights of gun owners.

“I’m as pro-life as a person gets,” Mr. Ryan said then.

In nearly 14 years as a Republican congressman from Wisconsin, Mr. Ryan has not only voted for legislation that would cut off federal money for Planned Parenthood and the Title X family planning program, but also backed bills to establish criminal penalties for certain doctors who perform the procedure known as partial-birth abortion.

He voted in 2006 for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. And, as he said recently, he supported an amendment to the Wisconsin Constitution, approved in 2006, that denies official recognition to same-sex marriage.

“Only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in this state,” the amendment says. “A legal status identical or substantially similar to that of marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized in this state.”

Mr. Ryan voted in 2009 against a bill that would expand federal hate crime laws to cover offenses based on a victim’s sexual orientation or gender identity.
Maggie, while Liberals don't care about proof, lefties do. ;)
 
I mean, Obama's more of a stereotypical limousine liberal, but Romney's is from the upper class, whereas Obama's just an upper middle class guy who did well.

In the US, "class" is more dependent on the behavior of the individual than the wealth of his/her family. Romney and Ryan have it, Obama and Biden do not.
 
So you're talking about a company that was started in 1910? You've got to be kidding me. Unfreakin'believable.

Yes I'm talking about generations of the Ryan family making a fortune off Govt. spending, the very thing Ryan now is trying to drastically cut. You don't find that ironic?
 
Yes I'm talking about generations of the Ryan family making a fortune off Govt. spending, the very thing Ryan now is trying to drastically cut. You don't find that ironic?

No, I don't. Ryan isn't talking about stopping the government from constructing roads, is he??
 
In the US, "class" is more dependent on the behavior of the individual than the wealth of his/her family. Romney and Ryan have it, Obama and Biden do not.

That's not really what I'm talking about. A "class" is like a caste, it is something you are born into. Saying somebody has "class" like they comport themselves well, is derived from this term but it isn't the same thing.

Obama is in the upper middle class. He went to law school, worked in service professions. Romney is from the upper class (sometimes incorrectly called the "one percent" although it's really more like the 0.1%), he got a job as a CEO of an investment firm through family connections.

Don't kid yourself. We live in a caste system.
 
Is Ryan's story a "sob story"? I find it inspiring.

Okay, so Paul Ryan experienced the death of his father at an early age and had to stay home and be the man of the house. Great! Good for him. He manned up! But his struggles through life aren't that different from so many others who grew up without their father including President Obama.

Granted, Obama had his grandfather and step-father to help show him the way, but he eventually did like every parent expects of their child when they grow up - to move out and be able to stand on their own two-feet and make something of themselve in this world. I'd say that going from a small boy without a father to living in a foreign land with his mother and step-father to returning to the US to live with his grandparents and then moving on to graduate from an Ivy League college to returning to life in public service that is meaningful - same as Paul Ryan did - and rising to become this nation's 44th President is a remarkable story and one we all should want to immulate, not condemn or ridicule. Wouldn't you agree?
 
You have my sympathy...

Unnecessary. My unflinching realism is not as painful as the naifs might think.

You might considering looking facts square in the face, yourself. It is not that scary, I assure you.

Just a thought.
 
Romney comes off as more "salt of the earth" than President Obama to me. I don't really know why. It probably has something to do with his charity, his wife's illness, his 20+ foster children, his church, his family life, and the fact that, although he is richer than God he would put himself and his family through what they're going through for the altruistic purpose of leading our country. (In case this reads facetiously, it's not so intended.)

Edit: Oh! And thank you for not being a smart ass. Ha!

You know something Mags, I agree with you on this. I'm not voting for Romney. However, I definitely see him as the more down to earth guy than President Obama. And I actually don't think President Obama is a bad guy. He seems to be a great father and husband. Gov Romney just seems better. Pres Obama just popped up out of nowhere and had a goal of being a powerful politician. Gov Romney seems like he had his nose to the grindstone for a long time and went into politics because he honestly wanted to help. The biggest one for me is that no one from Pres Obama's past comes up and says that he is great guy, did something for them, helped them out, etc. They do that for Gov Romney at every turn. I've heard at least 20 stories about some charitable thing Gov Romney has done. None about Pres Obama. And don't even get me on VP Biden who donates NO money to charity. That dude's just a plain big mouthed douche. If there were one politician I'd like to punch, it would be a tie between him and Elizabeth Warren lol.
 
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