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Barack's appeal

sKiTzo said:
I've noticed Barack Obama still has a fair amount of support. Being the only democrat, he'll be tough to beat. The polls here are erratic so it's hard to tell but one thing for sure is he consistently gets votes. I'm curious as to why people want another 4 years. I can't get a straight answer. The last thread I started like this I asked Obama supporters what do they like about Obama? There was 12 pages of irrelevant commentary and arguing but noone could tell me why we should support Obama. I don't want to hear any of the negatives because I already know them all. So please, somebody who supports Obama (with all respect), I would like to know what the appeal is, the reasons, if you will, for wanting Obama to be re-elected.
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It's the economy stupid. Economy has been getting better since he took office, better foreign policy, other than that I guess I like the medicare coverage expansion. Apart from that he seems like the kinda guy you can have a beer with =P.
 
Hairytic said:
Obamacare addresses the cost of health and lowers it. I don't think you have a clue how Obamacare works.
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Oh, I understand it quite well, its you who is uninformed. obamacare will cost every business more than they are spending today. the added cost will either result in higher prices or fewer jobs. When businesses are forced to raise prices to pay a govt tax or penalty, they must pass that added cost to the consumers if they are to survive. So the end consumer will be the one paying more for obamacare--you and me. Because everything we buy will cost more in order to provide FREE medical care for everyone.
 
shiang said:
It's the economy stupid. Economy has been getting better since he took office, better foreign policy, other than that I guess I like the medicare coverage expansion. Apart from that he seems like the kinda guy you can have a beer with =P.
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please post some economic indicators that have shown improvement in the last 4 years. unemployment - no. GDP - no. govt debt - no. deficits - no. and with no budget for the last 4 years the obama govt cannot even measure where they are.
 
specklebang said:
The key words are outlined in your quote. There is NO solution. The face of manufacturing has changed and we could double our production tomorrow and still have high unemployment.

Neither candidate has a solution because, to be fair, there isn't one. Unless one of them actually pays attention to education, this situation will only get worse. I predict 20% unemployment over the next decade.

I thought that the USG under Obusha would come up with workfare as a solution but they just are too corrupted to make any bold moves. They talked much about restoring the infrastructure but instead they printed trillions to go to banker buddies and simply let people drift into the welfare state.

Obusha had a 2 year window to try and help this situation. He invested this into Obamacare, which is all very lovely but utterly failed to address the job market. After that he was lost to gridlock.

Romney seems equally oblivious. His crown jewel is tax cuts? WTF? Tax cuts? How will that possibly help solve anything. As far as I can tell, it just means more deficit and more money flowing to the people who need it least. Even a billionaire only needs one yacht. So, IMHO, he's as worthless as Obusha and things are going to keep sliding toward oblivion.

Depressing really. This will be my first time to vote 3rd party. I have to express my dismay somehow.
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I agree 99%. However I still think there's hope, we just need to be creative and adjust to the new global and high-tech economy. 100 years ago people would spend all day on the family farm for the sole purpose of having something to eat that day. Today most people don't even have a backyard garden and as much as I've tried, the only thing I've been able to grow successfully are tomatoes and fruit from my fruit trees. I use to go to church with some girls from Nigeria. Their mom was a visiting professor at a local university. They were shocked to learn I'd never slaughtered a chicken in my like. :2rofll: The transportation industry 100 years ago surrounded horse care, horse feed and watering stations everywhere. A new era arrived and we both adjusted and I think improved. Will it get worse before it gets better? I hope not but this is what I think we need to do:

1. Our young people are going to have to get serious about education in preparation for the high-tech professions of the future. Two words: Math and science. However if you know anything about education, its all related. Good in music means good in math because following sheet music, timing, etc. exercises that same part of the brain used in calculating math problems. Similarly the creativity used in art develops skills in engineering. Athletics builds confidence, disciple, teamwork and competitive drive. Bottom line: our kids need to turn off the TV, put down the JayZ CD, stop trying to "hook up" and focus like a laser on being their best in school.

2. More people need to own their own businesses as opposed to seeing themselves as career employees.

3. Tax policy does play a role, but unlike the thoughts of most on the right, its not the only or even biggest factor. If companies are investing in America and American jobs, IMHO they should get the best tax treatment but not companies that move investment out of America. How to do this, I'm not sure but the Fair Tax should be considered.

4. Regular Americans need to be in the same boat with the wealthy, which means we all need to be building investment portfolios. Overhauling Social Security away from its present form and to diversified no load quality indexed portfolios to me is the best way to get that done.

5. We need to curtail if not eliminate costumer debt.

6. Offer government funded education past 12th grade to a 4 year college degree in the high paying technology vocations of the future.
 
Welcome to The Logical Party where we seek solutions, not power, wealth and drama.

We have a simple solution for the tax codes. The first $10K is taxed at the rate of 1%. The next step is $10K to $40K at the rate of 10%. $40K to $100K is 20%. $100K to $200K is 15%. $200K to $500K is 20% and everything above $200K is 25%. The ONLY deductibles are up to $10K in mortgage interest and charitable donations up to 50% of the gross. That's it. No medical deductions, no dependent deductions. Everyone pays something and participates.

Capital gains is the most flagrant "help the rich" scam ever. Here's the new Capital Gains rates:

If your business or the fund you invest in performs 100% of the work in the USA and does not assemble more than 50% of imported parts and does not build anything outside of America and has no overseas employees other than sales staff and maintains their bank accounts only in the USA and holds the investment for no less than 2 years - tax rate is 10%. Otherwise, the profits are taxed at ordinary income rates. Period.

Social Security is changed to the Mandatory Savings Account. 10% of every dollar you make must go toward your MSA and the employer contributes another 5%. If you are self-employed, you don't have to put up the extra 5% but you can if you want to. MSAs can buy, in $1K increments, T-Bills that expire at face at the age of 65. Once you have accumulated $50K in T-Bills, you have the option of investing 50% of your MSA above the $50K in a Mutual Fund that invests only in companies that meet the standard of the 10% capital gains rate. Again, this is $1K increments. The MSA is mandatory for anyone under the age of 50 now. If you are over 50, you can stick with the old SS system or convert your SS account to the MSA. At age 65, you will get a medical exam and you can begin withdrawing based on actuarial tables. This money is all yours and can be left to a beneficiary to be placed into the beneficiary MSA. When you take out money from your MSA or it goes to your beneficiary, there is a one time 10% tax/service fee. People already on SS may remain on the current system or not. The MSA maximum annual contribution is $15K if you get the deferred tax version or unlimited if you want the Roth type version.

Don't you wish that The Logical Party was running things?



Smeagol said:
I agree 99%. However I still think there's hope, we just need to be creative and adjust to the new global and high-tech economy. 100 years ago people would spend all day on the family farm for the sole purpose of having something to eat that day. Today most people don't even have a backyard garden and as much as I've tried, the only thing I've been able to grow successfully are tomatoes and fruit from my fruit trees. I use to go to church with some girls from Nigeria. Their mom was a visiting professor at a local university. They were shocked to learn I'd never slaughtered a chicken in my like. :2rofll: The transportation industry 100 years ago surrounded horse care, horse feed and watering stations everywhere. A new era arrived and we both adjusted and I think improved. Will it get worse before it gets better? I hope not but this is what I think we need to do:

1. Our young people are going to have to get serious about education in preparation for the high-tech professions of the future. Two words: Math and science. However if you know anything about education, its all related. Good in music means good in math because following sheet music, timing, etc. exercises that same part of the brain used in calculating math problems. Similarly the creativity used in art develops skills in engineering. Athletics builds confidence, disciple, teamwork and competitive drive. Bottom line: our kids need to turn off the TV, put down the JayZ CD, stop trying to "hook up" and focus like a laser on being their best in school.

2. More people need to own their own businesses as opposed to seeing themselves as career employees.

3. Tax policy does play a role, but unlike the thoughts of most on the right, its not the only or even biggest factor. If companies are investing in America and American jobs, IMHO they should get the best tax treatment but not companies that move investment out of America. How to do this, I'm not sure but the Fair Tax should be considered.

4. Regular Americans need to be in the same boat with the wealthy, which means we all need to be building investment portfolios. Overhauling Social Security away from its present form and to diversified no load quality indexed portfolios to me is the best way to get that done.

5. We need to curtail if not eliminate costumer debt.

6. Offer government funded education past 12th grade to a 4 year college degree in the high paying technology vocations of the future.
Click to expand...
 
Consumer debt does not have a way of being addressed LOGICALLY. The credit lenders need to be more sensible but you can't legislate common sense. Otherwise, I agree with you 99%:)






Smeagol said:
I agree 99%. However I still think there's hope, we just need to be creative and adjust to the new global and high-tech economy. 100 years ago people would spend all day on the family farm for the sole purpose of having something to eat that day. Today most people don't even have a backyard garden and as much as I've tried, the only thing I've been able to grow successfully are tomatoes and fruit from my fruit trees. I use to go to church with some girls from Nigeria. Their mom was a visiting professor at a local university. They were shocked to learn I'd never slaughtered a chicken in my like. :2rofll: The transportation industry 100 years ago surrounded horse care, horse feed and watering stations everywhere. A new era arrived and we both adjusted and I think improved. Will it get worse before it gets better? I hope not but this is what I think we need to do:

1. Our young people are going to have to get serious about education in preparation for the high-tech professions of the future. Two words: Math and science. However if you know anything about education, its all related. Good in music means good in math because following sheet music, timing, etc. exercises that same part of the brain used in calculating math problems. Similarly the creativity used in art develops skills in engineering. Athletics builds confidence, disciple, teamwork and competitive drive. Bottom line: our kids need to turn off the TV, put down the JayZ CD, stop trying to "hook up" and focus like a laser on being their best in school.

2. More people need to own their own businesses as opposed to seeing themselves as career employees.

3. Tax policy does play a role, but unlike the thoughts of most on the right, its not the only or even biggest factor. If companies are investing in America and American jobs, IMHO they should get the best tax treatment but not companies that move investment out of America. How to do this, I'm not sure but the Fair Tax should be considered.

4. Regular Americans need to be in the same boat with the wealthy, which means we all need to be building investment portfolios. Overhauling Social Security away from its present form and to diversified no load quality indexed portfolios to me is the best way to get that done.

5. We need to curtail if not eliminate costumer debt.

6. Offer government funded education past 12th grade to a 4 year college degree in the high paying technology vocations of the future.
Click to expand...
 
specklebang said:
Consumer debt does not have a way of being addressed LOGICALLY. The credit lenders need to be more sensible but you can't legislate common sense. Otherwise, I agree with you 99%:)
Click to expand...

Store front post dated high interest payday loan operators were banned in my city. I'm thinking the US economy would be better off if we replayed credit card with debit cards, or at least cards with high available limits. I like what Obama bid in stopping the banks from increasing interest rates whenever they wanted to shake down their card holders for more money and stopped banks from authorizing NSF debit card purchases when people think they have money in the account to cover it just so they can take you to the cleaners for $35 a pop on all your bills than month, which averaged out to one incident per year per account holder.
 
Believe it or not, my city has a PayDay loan center on every corner. We have the highest rate of "underbanked" population and these guys get you to take a loan at 391% per annum! The biggest one in town, Dollar Loan Center, I'm embarrassed to say I financed this guy when he was starting up., He paid me 24% interest and loaned it out at 391%. Un-****ing-real.

So, just last night, I spoke to my best friend and I think I'm going to open a variant of the Payday Loan business. I'm just going to have one office at the lowest rent I can get (easy now because of the high vacancy rate) and offer signature and collateral loans at about 1/4 of what these other guys charge. I hope to force them to lower their rates but if nothing else, I won't totally screw my clients the way they do. I'll offer financial management education and counseling at no charge and see if I can't help some people get out of the poverty cycle.

This has been on my mind for a long time. I found out that my Cat Ladies had a $2K loan and were paying $700 a month in INTEREST alone! I was freaked out. I paid off their loan and they paid me 4 $500 payments and the sword of Damocles was removed from above their heads but it has gnawed away at me ever since. We used to have usury laws and then CitiBank offered to move their credit card center here (in the 70s) but demanded we remove the usury laws. Cash changed hands and instead of just increasing it, they did away with it altogether.

In some ways, I dread going back in business. I'm happy to stay home, play landlord and love on the cats. But, I think I'm serious about this so this week, I'm going to borrow $200 from one of these Shylock bastards and see how they handle it. I just might have to do this whether I want to or not.

Shameful, really.


Smeagol said:
Store front post dated high interest payday loan operators were banned in my city. I'm thinking the US economy would be better off if we replayed credit card with debit cards, or at least cards with high available limits. I like what Obama bid in stopping the banks from increasing interest rates whenever they wanted to shake down their card holders for more money and stopped banks from authorizing NSF debit card purchases when people think they have money in the account to cover it just so they can take you to the cleaners for $35 a pop on all your bills than month, which averaged out to one incident per year per account holder.
Click to expand...
 
Bobcat said:
Oh, I understand it quite well, its you who is uninformed. obamacare will cost every business more than they are spending today. the added cost will either result in higher prices or fewer jobs. When businesses are forced to raise prices to pay a govt tax or penalty, they must pass that added cost to the consumers if they are to survive. So the end consumer will be the one paying more for obamacare--you and me. Because everything we buy will cost more in order to provide FREE medical care for everyone.
Click to expand...

I need proof that Obamacare will cost businesses more money. I hear this talking point often, but no one has offered proof.
 
Hairytic said:
I need proof that Obamacare will cost businesses more money. I hear this talking point often, but no one has offered proof.
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companies can either provide medical insurance or pay a penalty for every employee. those penalties will be a cost of doing business and will be included in the price of the product.
 
Bobcat said:
companies can either provide medical insurance or pay a penalty for every employee. those penalties will be a cost of doing business and will be included in the price of the product.
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I will need some sort of proof
 
Hairytic said:
I read this article. Nothing in it said that small businesses have to provide insurance to their employees. I don't buy the argument this article is making. There is nothing in the AHA that says businesses have to provide insurance to employees.
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you are not very well informed, hairy. thats what obamacare is all about.
 
Bobcat said:
you are not very well informed, hairy. thats what obamacare is all about.
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If I need an education on Obamacare, then please post some proof that Obamacare requires businesses to cover employees.
 
Hairytic said:
I don't think a right wing think tank is a good source of information.
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can you show that anything they said is incorrect? you may not want to believe that obamacare is a disaster, but it is.
 
Hairytic said:
I read this article. Nothing in it said that small businesses have to provide insurance to their employees. I don't buy the argument this article is making. There is nothing in the AHA that says businesses have to provide insurance to employees.
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Do you have any proof that Obamacare will reduce the burden on small business???? I mean other than the word of Nancy Pelosi and Obama??
 
sKiTzo said:
I've noticed Barack Obama still has a fair amount of support. Being the only democrat, he'll be tough to beat. The polls here are erratic so it's hard to tell but one thing for sure is he consistently gets votes. I'm curious as to why people want another 4 years. I can't get a straight answer. The last thread I started like this I asked Obama supporters what do they like about Obama? There was 12 pages of irrelevant commentary and arguing but noone could tell me why we should support Obama. I don't want to hear any of the negatives because I already know them all. So please, somebody who supports Obama (with all respect), I would like to know what the appeal is, the reasons, if you will, for wanting Obama to be re-elected.
Click to expand...

This is my view as I see it...If the GOP had put forth a traditional republican without the house far right pushing their agenda and obstructing the entire govt process, Obama would be a one term president. However, Americans given the choice between a far right agenda that wants to dismantle the middleclass and give it to the rich has made Obama seemingly at this point the more popular.
 
Dismantle the middle class and give it to the rich, or dismantle the middle class and give it to the poor.

Doesn't make a difference to the middle class.

Except I know what PPACA is going to do to me and others in the middle. I have no idea what the right is supposedly going to do.
 
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sKiTzo said:
I've noticed Barack Obama still has a fair amount of support. Being the only democrat, he'll be tough to beat. The polls here are erratic so it's hard to tell but one thing for sure is he consistently gets votes. I'm curious as to why people want another 4 years. I can't get a straight answer. The last thread I started like this I asked Obama supporters what do they like about Obama? There was 12 pages of irrelevant commentary and arguing but noone could tell me why we should support Obama. I don't want to hear any of the negatives because I already know them all. So please, somebody who supports Obama (with all respect), I would like to know what the appeal is, the reasons, if you will, for wanting Obama to be re-elected.
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Social issues, he could do anything just about with the economy I don't care. I just want a president who looks out for LGBT people, minorities, and who doesn't make me feel like I am in church getting judged when I hear him speak.

I think a lot of people are like this, sure I kinda support his Keynesian policies, though I would prefer a more Tito style economy, but he isn't one for taking risks or making big changes, but whatever he is the one who is morally superior, and will likely have the most positive impact on my life.
 
Rokkitsci said:
Do you have any proof that Obamacare will reduce the burden on small business???? I mean other than the word of Nancy Pelosi and Obama??
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Sure, here you go:

a new study on small businesses contradicts Romney’s claims. Conducted by a business advocacy group, Small Business Majority, an opinion poll surveyed 800 businesses owners across the country. And the results show that over half of the respondents – who were all small business owners – strongly support the law.

Key findings from the study indicated that 50 percent of small business owners want the health care reform law to be upheld by the Supreme Court, in its entirety or with just minor changes. Only one-third of the respondents wanted the Supreme Court to overturn the law. However, after learning more about the law’s details, support for keeping the law intact grew to 56 percent.

John Arensmeyer, founder and CEO of Small Business Majority, said the results show that small business owners view Obamacare as a positive move for their businesses:

Contrary to popular belief, small business owners do not want the high court to throw out the Affordable Care Act. They see this law as helping everyone have coverage and bringing down healthcare costs—something that has been one of their top concerns for years. We hope Supreme Court justices understand how important this law is to small businesses who need relief from high healthcare costs.

Study: Small Business Owners Support Obamacare | ThinkProgress
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I hate to be a spoiler but rightwing propaganda from Cato and left wing from thinkprogress doesn't really amount to proof of anything. Then again is there really such a thing as an unbiased source anymore?
 
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