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Gun Owners should be scared of Romney

Fishstyx said:
No, it won't happen. Even with the tax cut as a sweetner. You need 60 votes in the Senate. You wouldn't get that when the Democrats had a supermajority over this issue.
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No, you need 51 votes, if you can convince Dems not filibuster in order to get the weapon ban.
 
avusbluem5 said:
What a compelling argument you present. 0_o
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its as logical as your argument that romney is going to pick up our guns. A gun ban is much more likely under obama. An armed populace is the worst thing for a socialist dictator.


remember---if guns are banned only criminals and the government will have guns---would that make you sleep well?
 
Bobcat said:
its as logical as your argument that romney is going to pick up our guns. A gun ban is much more likely under obama. An armed populace is the worst thing for a socialist dictator.


remember---if guns are banned only criminals and the government will have guns---would that make you sleep well?
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Of the two, Romney is the only one to enact gun control legislation. Romney doesn't like guns, and is lying about his beliefs. The republican congress would never cooperate with Obama on anything. The democrats are not so stubborn, and republicans in congress tend to lose their core beliefs when a republican is in the White house. Case in point: W passes biggest entitlement program since M'care was created. Where were all the small govt republicans then? Oh, i remember, they were in congress.
 
Fishstyx said:
No, I know his position during his time as MA governor and oppose it. Not sure if he still maintain that position or was just pandering to a left leaning state. Either way, I'm fine with it because it will never happen. Romney would not pursue nor sign a bill containing strict gun control measures. One, a HUGE portion of his political national base would immediately turn on him. Two, it would never get to his desk for signature anyway, so the argument is moot.
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That's the thing with Romney -- he is ALWAYS pandering; he doesn't have actual positions. So yeah, right now he's pandering to the far right to get elected. But say a few years down the road that base turns on him. Maybe he decides he better start pandering to moderates and progressives again.... Mitt Romney is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get.
 
AdamT said:
That's the thing with Romney -- he is ALWAYS pandering; he doesn't have actual positions. So yeah, right now he's pandering to the far right to get elected. But say a few years down the road that base turns on him. Maybe he decides he better start pandering to moderates and progressives again.... Mitt Romney is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get.
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As Obama is pandering to the far left to get them fired up to go to polls. All politicians pander.
 
Biden has the most anti gun record of ANYONE who has EVER occupied the White House. Obama's two Justices are gun haters-Sotomayor voted along with other gun haters AGAINST gun Rights in McDonald.
 
avusbluem5 said:
Of the two, Romney is the only one to enact gun control legislation. Romney doesn't like guns, and is lying about his beliefs. The republican congress would never cooperate with Obama on anything. The democrats are not so stubborn, and republicans in congress tend to lose their core beliefs when a republican is in the White house. Case in point: W passes biggest entitlement program since M'care was created. Where were all the small govt republicans then? Oh, i remember, they were in congress.
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The pro gun groups will endorse Romney mainly because the judges "he" picks will be far more pro gun than the People Obama will pick and have picked.

The advisors to the president will be more pro gun than the chicago criminals who have ins with the current white house. So your patently idiotic attempts to try to get gun owners to vote for Obama (ban handguns) and Biden (35+ years of hating gun ownership) are going to fail
 
AdamT said:
That's the thing with Romney -- he is ALWAYS pandering; he doesn't have actual positions. So yeah, right now he's pandering to the far right to get elected. But say a few years down the road that base turns on him. Maybe he decides he better start pandering to moderates and progressives again.... Mitt Romney is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get.
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Romney has always been supportive of success and the successful. No wonder why those who are failures and those who gain wealth by pandering to failures hate him
 
TurtleDude said:
Romney has always been supportive of success and the successful. No wonder why those who are failures and those who gain wealth by pandering to failures hate him
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Does that have anything to do with him banning guns?
 
avusbluem5 said:
Of the two candidates we have to choose from, Romney is more likely than Obama to sign legislation infringing upon our 2nd amendment rights.

WHAT? You ask?

1. Romney has already signed into law a permanent Assault Weapons ban in Mass. In the bill signing Romney said: "Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

2. Romney's "Lifetime" NRA membership was purchased in 2006. Even so, on Meet the Press in 2007, Romney said: {he} still didn't "line up 100 percent with the NRA" and that he still supported bans on "unusually lethal" guns.

3. On gun ownership and hunting: "I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life." (Romney's campaign later said he'd been hunting twice, once when he was 15, and once in 2006 at a Republican fundraiser "I'm not a big-game hunter. I've made that very clear. I've always been a rodent and rabbit hunter. Small varmints, if you will." Going hunting TWICE qualifies him as being a hunter "Pretty much all my life"? Romney is no hunter.

4. In addition to the Assault Weapons ban in Mass, Romney increased licensing fees by 400%.

5. Looking ahead... Obama has been unable to push legislation through either house, and it seems unlikely that will change in a 2nd term. It also seems highly unlikely he would spend any political capital trying to pass gun legislation, as he rarely even talks about gun control. So it is unlikely we'd see any change under an Obama 2nd term. Romney however, who has a real record of passing gun legislation, might find himself in need of a carrot to toss to senate democrats in order to get his Tax Cut passed... Romney could broker a deal by offering gun control legislation in exchange for limited Dem support of his Tax cut legislation. Think about it... Do you think Romney, one who owned a 22 cal single shot rifle as a kid, would hesitate one minute to ban those "Deadly Assault Weapons" in order to pass his Tax cut?

A Romney Presidency is the only chance to pass new Gun legislation in the next 4 years. Not to mention, a Romney victory, almost guarantees a Hillary Clinton presidency in 2016. And we know what the Clinton's think of gun control!
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I don't even think gun control is on Romney's mind right now. And even if it were on his mind his answer today would probably be the same answer he gave about healthcare when he was Gov of Massachusetts.
 
lunchbox said:
I don't even think gun control is on Romney's mind right now. And even if it were on his mind his answer today would probably be the same answer he gave about healthcare when he was Gov of Massachusetts.
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No, what will be on his mind if he were ever to be president is... how to pass his tax agenda. And to pass his tax cut, he will need some democrat support... So what could he offer up? Something he really secretly supports... something like... an assault weapons ban? He will strong arm the republicans in congress, telling them to get in line, this is what is needed so we can get his tax cut passed. The same republicans who rolled over for W and passed the largest entitlement program since M'Care was introduced.

And all i hear back from the "conservatives" on this board is.... Oh, congress would never do that... I'm telling you they have caved in in the past, and they would do it again... putting your faith in congress is a bad idea. As hard as it is to accept, on gun control, Obama would be a better choice. The republicans in congress HATE Obama, and would oppose any agenda he puts forth. It would ensure 4 more years of gridlock in Washington. And in-case you didn't know.... Gridlock is good.
 
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I think you are mistaken, we'll have to wait and see.

Either that or you know better and are purposely spreading propaganda, in which case you should be ashamed of yourself.;)
 
avusbluem5 said:
No, you need 51 votes, if you can convince Dems not filibuster in order to get the weapon ban.
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No, you need 60 yay votes for cloture, which allows the bill to come to the floor. They would never have that many Senators that would allow it to come to the floor. Even under the current balance, would never happen.
 
Fishstyx said:
No, you need 60 yay votes for cloture, which allows the bill to come to the floor. They would never have that many Senators that would allow it to come to the floor. Even under the current balance, would never happen.
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You think the Republicans are going to filibuster Mitts Tax cut bill? What would Grover think about that? You underestimate most Senator's ability to be bought off with political favors.
 
avusbluem5 said:
Of the two candidates we have to choose from, Romney is more likely than Obama to sign legislation infringing upon our 2nd amendment rights.

WHAT? You ask?

1. Romney has already signed into law a permanent Assault Weapons ban in Mass. In the bill signing Romney said: "Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

2. Romney's "Lifetime" NRA membership was purchased in 2006. Even so, on Meet the Press in 2007, Romney said: {he} still didn't "line up 100 percent with the NRA" and that he still supported bans on "unusually lethal" guns.

3. On gun ownership and hunting: "I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life." (Romney's campaign later said he'd been hunting twice, once when he was 15, and once in 2006 at a Republican fundraiser "I'm not a big-game hunter. I've made that very clear. I've always been a rodent and rabbit hunter. Small varmints, if you will." Going hunting TWICE qualifies him as being a hunter "Pretty much all my life"? Romney is no hunter.

4. In addition to the Assault Weapons ban in Mass, Romney increased licensing fees by 400%.

5. Looking ahead... Obama has been unable to push legislation through either house, and it seems unlikely that will change in a 2nd term. It also seems highly unlikely he would spend any political capital trying to pass gun legislation, as he rarely even talks about gun control. So it is unlikely we'd see any change under an Obama 2nd term. Romney however, who has a real record of passing gun legislation, might find himself in need of a carrot to toss to senate democrats in order to get his Tax Cut passed... Romney could broker a deal by offering gun control legislation in exchange for limited Dem support of his Tax cut legislation. Think about it... Do you think Romney, one who owned a 22 cal single shot rifle as a kid, would hesitate one minute to ban those "Deadly Assault Weapons" in order to pass his Tax cut?

A Romney Presidency is the only chance to pass new Gun legislation in the next 4 years. Not to mention, a Romney victory, almost guarantees a Hillary Clinton presidency in 2016. And we know what the Clinton's think of gun control!
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Romney wouldn't risk his political base. Obama can't touch the topic without it exploding in his face. They won't commit political suicide.

I will vote for Romney because I don't want Obama to be president. A vote for someone that ISN'T Romney or Obama is a lack of a vote (or really just a vote for Obama...since he is already in office). It always has been. Having a single reason to vote for a President is a terrible idea. Not to mention I care more about a President's Foreign policy than their crappy ideas on social/legal issues. There is a reason we have Senators and Congressmen.
 
stonewall50 said:
Romney wouldn't risk his political base. Obama can't touch the topic without it exploding in his face. They won't commit political suicide.

I will vote for Romney because I don't want Obama to be president. A vote for someone that ISN'T Romney or Obama is a lack of a vote (or really just a vote for Obama...since he is already in office). It always has been. Having a single reason to vote for a President is a terrible idea. Not to mention I care more about a President's Foreign policy than their crappy ideas on social/legal issues. There is a reason we have Senators and Congressmen.
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You value foreign policy experience, but are going to vote on Romney? Fascinating, given Mittens complete lack of experience. Never mind his disastrous trip abroad where he insulted our strongest ally, revealed classified information and made racist remarks about the Palestinians.... all on the same TRIP! OH, and he's a draft dodger, who hid behind his religion to stay out of Vietnam, then turns around and says in 2007, that "He longed to actually be in Vietnam" yet he applied for and received 5 deferments.
 
avusbluem5 said:
You think the Republicans are going to filibuster Mitts Tax cut bill? What would Grover think about that? You underestimate most Senator's ability to be bought off with political favors.
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If it comes with gun control stipulation, you bet your ass they'd filibuster it.
 
Fishstyx said:
No, you need 60 yay votes for cloture, which allows the bill to come to the floor. They would never have that many Senators that would allow it to come to the floor. Even under the current balance, would never happen.
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Debate can be ended by Unanimous consent, which simply requires no-one to object.
 
Fishstyx said:
If it comes with gun control stipulation, you bet your ass they'd filibuster it.
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Obviously, you are hoping they will filibuster... I think Mittens can buy off enough votes to get it through... 57% of Americans support the assault weapons ban. 60% support banning high capacity clips... There is not as much support for our position as you think. Then you weigh that against getting a Tax Cut passed... and we lose even more support. They don't have to vote for it... they simply need to not filibuster.
 
avusbluem5 said:
Debate can be ended by Unanimous consent, which simply requires no-one to object.
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So you honestly believe that not one senator would object? Thats more unrealistic than getting 60 to invoke cloture.

avusbluem5 said:
Obviously, you are hoping they will filibuster... I think Mittens can buy off enough votes to get it through... 57% of Americans support the assault weapons ban. 60% support banning high capacity clips... There is not as much support for our position as you think. Then you weigh that against getting a Tax Cut passed... and we lose even more support. They don't have to vote for it... they simply need to not filibuster.
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Not hoping, I know they would. You couldn't even get more than 70% (thats being generous too) of Democrat Senators to go along with this right now. Do you Mary Landrieu, Joe Manchin or any other Democrat Senator not from a dark blue state would go along with this? Unlikely.

Link to that poll? Not an article on the poll, the actual poll with crosstabs, polling sample,etc.
 
avusbluem5 said:
Of the two candidates we have to choose from, Romney is more likely than Obama to sign legislation infringing upon our 2nd amendment rights.

WHAT? You ask?

1. Romney has already signed into law a permanent Assault Weapons ban in Mass. In the bill signing Romney said: "Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

2. Romney's "Lifetime" NRA membership was purchased in 2006. Even so, on Meet the Press in 2007, Romney said: {he} still didn't "line up 100 percent with the NRA" and that he still supported bans on "unusually lethal" guns.

3. On gun ownership and hunting: "I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life." (Romney's campaign later said he'd been hunting twice, once when he was 15, and once in 2006 at a Republican fundraiser "I'm not a big-game hunter. I've made that very clear. I've always been a rodent and rabbit hunter. Small varmints, if you will." Going hunting TWICE qualifies him as being a hunter "Pretty much all my life"? Romney is no hunter.

4. In addition to the Assault Weapons ban in Mass, Romney increased licensing fees by 400%.

5. Looking ahead... Obama has been unable to push legislation through either house, and it seems unlikely that will change in a 2nd term. It also seems highly unlikely he would spend any political capital trying to pass gun legislation, as he rarely even talks about gun control. So it is unlikely we'd see any change under an Obama 2nd term. Romney however, who has a real record of passing gun legislation, might find himself in need of a carrot to toss to senate democrats in order to get his Tax Cut passed... Romney could broker a deal by offering gun control legislation in exchange for limited Dem support of his Tax cut legislation. Think about it... Do you think Romney, one who owned a 22 cal single shot rifle as a kid, would hesitate one minute to ban those "Deadly Assault Weapons" in order to pass his Tax cut?

A Romney Presidency is the only chance to pass new Gun legislation in the next 4 years. Not to mention, a Romney victory, almost guarantees a Hillary Clinton presidency in 2016. And we know what the Clinton's think of gun control!
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I've been struggling to give a **** whether Obama or Romney wins in November.... that pretty much clinched my lack of giving a ****.
 
Fishstyx said:
If it comes with gun control stipulation, you bet your ass they'd filibuster it.
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I agree that there's not a chance in hell of getting gun control legislation through Congress ... at least right now. So why are Republicans rallying the base with the claim that Obama will take their guns away? Hypocrites?
 
AdamT said:
I agree that there's not a chance in hell of getting gun control legislation through Congress ... at least right now. So why are Republicans rallying the base with the claim that Obama will take their guns away? Hypocrites?
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Not really, Obama has demonstrated that he has no problems stretching various regulatory agencies ability to draft regulations on existing statutes to the breaking point. With a GOP House and a very possible GOP Senate and no hurdle of reelection, can completely see his Admin finding something they can use to do it.
 
avusbluem5 said:
You value foreign policy experience, but are going to vote on Romney? Fascinating, given Mittens complete lack of experience. Never mind his disastrous trip abroad where he insulted our strongest ally, revealed classified information and made racist remarks about the Palestinians.... all on the same TRIP! OH, and he's a draft dodger, who hid behind his religion to stay out of Vietnam, then turns around and says in 2007, that "He longed to actually be in Vietnam" yet he applied for and received 5 deferments.
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I guess you can shed that "independent label" with the Mittens comment but those of us who really understand the gun issue know several things and won't fall for this paid Obama propaganda trying to convince gun owners to vote for Obama Biden

1) Judges-the GOP picks most of the judges if Romney wins just as Senators like Sherrod Brown picks the District and appellate judges who sit in Ohio. The GOP judges are on the whole, far far more pro gun than people like Sotomayor

2) Biden has 3+ Decades of anti gun votes on record. Biden has voted for every gun restriction possible. he was the MAIN SENATE leader behind the clinton gun ban. the only thing that has kept Obama Biden in check is the political reality of what happened in 1994, the Heller decision and Harry Reid's refusal to let anti gun bills make it to the senate floor because Reid is smart enough to know he would get destroyed in his home state if he allowed a gun ban to pass

3) the Obama administration is full of anti gunners. Rahm Emanuel is one of the biggest gun haters alive. No such gun haters are in Romney's inner circle
 
AdamT said:
I agree that there's not a chance in hell of getting gun control legislation through Congress ... at least right now. So why are Republicans rallying the base with the claim that Obama will take their guns away? Hypocrites?
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Because if it no longer would cost Obama politically he would. his VP has spent a life time trying to screw over gun owners
 
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