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Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction[W:133]

Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

Republican Platform Won



Tax cuts for the rich is clearly more important that anything else. You stay classy Conservatives. :shock:

The key to this is the fact that the mortgage interest deduction may go away as part of tax reforms that lower taxes for ALL americans. It is more fair this way. why should homeowners get to pay lower taxes while hard working americans that are stuck renting a place to live have to pay higher taxes. I would think democrats would appreciate the fairness of this idea and support it.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

Yes, as a matter of fact, its very hard to understand. Let's start with some questions, which as an active Romney advocate you surely can answer:

1) What is a "loophole"?
2) What does Romney mean by "loophole"?
3) Who benefits from each of these "loopholes"?
4) Why does this "loophole" exist? Are their discernable consequences for closing it?
5) Do the associated tax rate reductions adequately compensate such people for the loss of these "loopholes?"

If you can answer these, please share those answers with us, as many of us do not know. To help you, if by slim chance you can not answer these, a loophole is a vague term designed to to vague: to titillate the ill-formed and scare the informed. Fortunately for Romney the former is a bigger block than the latter.

Generally, people have come to think of this as eliminated deductions; which contrary to your view of the world, are things that the middle class (not the wealthy, as itemized deductions are limited for higher incomes) rely upon. This means cutting taxes on the highest incomes and paying for it on the backs of the middle incomes (and lower incomes, depending, of course, on what he really means by loopholes).

Of course, much like his economic plan and his tax returns, the Romney group will not reveal what they mean by the term "loophole" as the truth is a loser for them.

Ahead of Convention, GOP Dumps Mortgage Deduction - Businessweek
Mr. Romney’s ‘garbage’ - The Washington Post

All of those questions will, ultimately, be answered by Congress. Not the President.

Look, the voters are not concerned with the detailed questions you posed. They want broad leadership directions outlined. I'm afraid that if YOU want that kind of detailed information, you will be out of luck. You'll need to make your decision based on what you get.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

I don't quite know how progressive your tax code is, but the fact that half of people have average and margina tax rates of 0% makes me think it is pretty progressive already. I think here we get 5 or 6 thousand before taxes kick in.

It's not as progressive as you might imagine from that oft-cited statisic. The fact is that income taxes make up less than half of federal taxes, and the biggest reason so many people aren't paying any is that most of our wealth is concentrated in the top 5% of the population, and moreso the top 1%, and even moreso, the top 0.01%. We are slowly but surely working our way back to the good old days where the robber barons maintained vast fortunes while the working class barely scraped by.

Re national health care, please don't. For your own reasons, we have a top marginal rate federally and provincially in Ontario of 46.41% up to $500,000 of income and almost 50% over that amount. And the top rate kicks in at like 120 or 130k Canadian. We also tax dividends at 2/3ds of income and capital gains at 50%, so we are way over your numbers. Oh, we also have a 13% sales tax. Everyone in Canada pays a LOT more taxes than we would in the US, and our various economic indicators all kind of suck as a result (sure, we are doing better than you cause you f'ed up your housing and financial markets, but our labour productivity and recent GDP per capita stats all royally sucked when compared to the US. Our prices are substantially and consistently higher too, even before the extra sales taxes as a result of various regulatory and other fators).

As for selfish reasons, I need for you to have a good system so if I need an "elective" MRI for back issues I won't have to wait for 14 months like my brother did but instead can just drive down to Bufallo and have it done that afternoon. I need it so that if I godforbid get sick I can supplement any Canadian diagnosis (and timeline for diagnosis) with a quick trip to Johns Hopkins for a second opinion. And I need it because drug companies and medical technology companies innovate to serve the US market, not mine.

As socialt paradise-y as we have it here, our system has some pretty major dysfunctions of its own, that manage to kill and harm a lot of people. of course, we also spend WAY less of our GDP on medical care, so if you scaled us up to your ridiculous level of expenditure maybe we could have more than a handful of MRI machines.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you maintain private insurance and see private doctors in Canada if the national system isn't meeting your needs? In any case, the bolded part is the alpha and the omega of discussion. Specifically, you spend about half what we do per capita and about 6% less as a percentage of GDP. If we could reduce our health care spending to your level we could easily out-compete most, if not all of the BRIC countries, let alone the OECD countries. This is the number one thing dragging the US down, and sadly, the real solution to the problem isn't even on the table.

They've earned lots of money. And they are doing very well compared to rock bottom (shocking) But investment is still weak. People have lots of money and they are sitting on it because they don't like either the economy or the potential regulatory environment. Why do you think Gold is at 1600 bucks and companies' cash reserves are so healthy, yet deal volumes have been way down and investment is not driving a recovery in spite of ridiculously low interest rates?

The main reason investment is down -- and second place isn't even close -- is that demand is down. Simply put, no one is going to invest in a new factory when their existing factories are running at 70% of capacity. By the same token, if demand is oustrips production no one is going to give up the profits that a new factory could generate on the off chance that some regulation may come to pass that would cut into profits.

But that's not to say that uncertainty isn't a factor. The real uncertainty, however, concerns the approaching "fiscal cliff" which is comprised of the imminent expiration of the Bush tax cuts, the Obama payroll tax cuts, and the automatic "sequester" spending cuts. Now, I'm sure you will throw the partisan BS flag, but IMO this is almost entirely a Republican created, self-inflicted wound. Obama and the Democrats have proposed that we extend the middle class tax cuts immediately, but Republicans are holding the middle class hostage in order to force the top tax cuts. The middle class tax cuts are a major source of consternation for businesses because their expiration will have a large, immediate effect on consumer demand. Similarly, the automatic spending cuts are a direct result of the Republicans' refusal to accept a reasonable compromise during the debt ceiling fiasco.

I could. But not here. As one silly example, how about fining a woman fopr having a birthday party for her friend's kid at her farm because her farm sells stuff and she didn't get a permit. As a serious one, how about your environmental regulations that make it extrmely difficult to do anything infrastructure or investment wise in energy in the short term.

Generally speaking there are very good reasons for energy-related regulations, as we saw with the BP disaster. But it's really impossible to discuss at this level of generality.

But seriously, as a left winger, these points aside, you should be keenly interested in pulling back regulatory obsticles that have little practical benefit. Besides the liberty point, "spending money" on inefficient regulations (both in terms of enforcement and in terms of diminished productivity and output) takes money away from helping the poor and all that.

I don't think that anyone is interested in prolonging regulations that have little practical benefit. And while I'm sure that there are many, those on the right have a tendency to condemn all regulations without giving much thought to rationale behind them.

I would expect that it would make much mroe sense to you to spend a few million tax dollars on helping the needy rather than foregoing it to set up a regulatory regime that allows incumbent producers to set up a recycling monopoly in order to prevent entry of a competitor that might otherwise look to buy used product and use it to compete against the incumbents? And that sort of thing happens all the time.

You lost me there.

Regulatory capture, by interested parties who can influence legislators or regulators, can have huge negative effects on markets, consumers and economic output. The left knows this, and they rail against "corporate fat cats" doing this sort of thing all the time (Koch brothers anyone). But no one on the left seems to put 2 and 2 together on it to understand that it is government activity in various private sectors that makes this possible in the first palce. Want to know how to prevent regulatory capture? Restrict the ability of the regulator to act in the first place, particularly where the value the regulator provides in respect of that aspect of its mandate are small to begin with.

The left will generally argue that regulatory capture resuts in underregulation as opposed to over or misregulation.

ok. I'm open. What else do they propose to do to close a deficit that exceeds a trillion dollars and represents, what, a full 3rd of federal government spending?

Not enough, unfortunately, but I think there's a general consensus on the left that we should spend much less than we do on the military and corporate subsidies. I think that many on the left also believe that we could and should achieve huge savings by going to a full-on single payer health care system. I also believe that most on the left would support eliminating all of the Bush tax cuts, i.e., returning to Clinton-era tax rates, once the economy is on a solid footing. That, in and of itself, would stop the growth of the debt in its tracks.

No, it was a combination of better banking regulations (in terms of liquidity requirements) coupled with our much more concentrated banking industry (we don't have all these little dinky banks like you do) coupled with our government's staying out of both encouraging banks to make bad loans and even worse f*** up of then allowing banks making those loans to repackage them and dump them on others. That and the massive growth of our energy sector because of the oil sands and our govenrment's facilitating their rapid development as well as our general strength in raw materials.

It isn't stricter regulations. It is better regulations that are key. Our banking ones may be more strict in aspects that matter (though not in all aspects), but our oilfield ones are probably less strict (which happens to be better for the economy but arguably worse for the environment). The left really needs to internalize this point - more regulations are not always better, and stricter regulations are not always better. And just because regulations in one area were too lax does not mean that all additional regulations in all areas are positive and all efforts to streamline regulations in all areas are negative.

You're playing both sides of the fence, there. I would say that it was specifically your stricter banking regulations that prevented you from getting hammered by the financial meltdown the way that we did. As far as energy production, I think it's largely a myth that regulations are to blame for our reliance on foreign oil. The fact is that we use a tremendous amount of oil per capita hand have relatively few proven reserves relative to large producers like Canada (US: 19.4 bbl, Canada: 175 bbl). I think that Canada will live to regret its relatively weak environmental regulations. Your problems are just less obvious due to your very low population density.

Oh, and just to throw it out there, we also have less strict regulations in some other areas, like, say, on clubbing baby seals with clubs with spikes on the end. Not really relevant, but came to me and I thought I might as well share.

But I do take your point somewhat on the Canadian conservative thing. All in favour of gay rights and gay marriage and most of the other nonsense social conservates there are against and focus so much time on. Fine with abortion rights, though they are making me increasingly more uncomfortable as (1) I have kids of my own and see them grow up and (2) birth rates in western countries, except for the US and Israel, are abysmal - Canada's fertility rate is about 1.5. Ultimately, I'll probably end up at the point where I think abortion sucks and should be discouraged through moral suasion but not criminalized, but who knows. And yeah, letting people die because they don't have medical insurance is a terrible thing for a developed country to do, though I'm not so sure how much it actually happens there while at the same time there are some true horror stories from Canada and other countries with single payer systems so it doesn't seem like a cut and dry issue.

But on economic issues, I pay way to much tax, unions make way to much money while eroding service and output quality while reducing overall employment (raise the cost of a worker and you end up hiring fewer workers), and the left has no clue how to properly manage an economy. So that puts me on the right.

Your overall taxation isn't that much higher than the US. I'd also note that when you look at countries with LOWER taxation than the US, virtually all of them are third-world countries. Well, I'm not sure how you'd classify Mexico and Chile, but they are slightly lower.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

why are tax hikes on the people who pay a ton of taxes so important to the dems?

1) to appeal to class envy

2) to convince the weak minded that the government can now pay for more and more handouts?

1) to lower deficits without having too large an impact on consumer demand, and thus growth;

2) to lower deficits without causing people who have little or no money for discretionary spending to suffer;

3) to help maintain a healthy distribution between the middle class and the wealthy, i.e., to mute the howling, sucking sound of the middle class' prosperity being hoovered up by the ultra rich.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

I shouldn't. But, do you think now is the time to increase taxes for home owners (middle class) so we can afford to decrease taxes for the most wealthy of us and corporations?

I like how you skip how the Romney Tax plan also lowers their tax rate when you say this :)
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

I like how you skip how the Romney Tax plan also lowers their tax rate when you say this :)


Doesnt matter how much he lowers their tax rate...and could you show me where it does ? if they have no jobs and no income your rich buddies will have to raise taxs on the chinese so they can pay less....

How closing all the offshore loopholes cpwill that allows the rich including romeny to PAY almost nothing....how bout that...how bout that top 12 corps paid nothing....oh that dont count right...lets just get the poor who make nothing and the middleclass who make less and stick it to them.
Yes cpwill Romney and ryan are all for the middle class right ? lmao
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

Doesnt matter how much he lowers their tax rate...and could you show me where it does ?

Romney has called for a 20% reduction in all rates.

if they have no jobs and no income your rich buddies will have to raise taxs on the chinese so they can pay less....

:roll:

How closing all the offshore loopholes cpwill that allows the rich including romeny to PAY almost nothing....how bout that...how bout that top 12 corps paid nothing....oh that dont count right...lets just get the poor who make nothing and the middleclass who make less and stick it to them.

Simplifying the tax code while lowering nominal rates will indeed cause some companies to pay more, and some companies to pay less. Wal-Mart, for example, pays a fairly high effective corporate rate, as do most retailers. Politically Connected G.E. not so much. And of course, other major companies such as GM and AIG just get taxpayer money.

Yes cpwill Romney and ryan are all for the middle class right ?

:) A rising tide lifts all boats. And they are certainly better for the middle class than the fella we have in office now.

When ARE You going to tell us what you think of Obama's $716 Bn cut to current seniors Medicare? :)
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

Moderator's Warning:
Some people need to tone it down a bit here. Stop with the personal comments, the inflammatory comments, the baiting.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

1) to lower deficits without having too large an impact on consumer demand, and thus growth;

2) to lower deficits without causing people who have little or no money for discretionary spending to suffer;

3) to help maintain a healthy distribution between the middle class and the wealthy, i.e., to mute the howling, sucking sound of the middle class' prosperity being hoovered up by the ultra rich.

discredited talking points. If your goal targets the Ultra rich its rather dishonest to start soaking those making less than 10 million a year let alone 200K
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

discredited talking points. If your goal targets the Ultra rich its rather dishonest to start soaking those making less than 10 million a year let alone 200K

Nothing discredited about them. As to No. 3, I would institute at least two additional brackets above the current top bracket, and shift the existing top bracket forward so it doesn't kick in until around $350k family income.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

I like how you skip how the Romney Tax plan also lowers their tax rate when you say this :)

All studies for his tax plan says he will have to raise taxes on the poor and middle class to balance his tax cuts that benefit the higher earners disproportionately.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

All studies for his tax plan says he will have to raise taxes on the poor and middle class to balance his tax cuts that benefit the higher earners disproportionately.

it's a flat cut. the logic that demands decrying the fact that this means that the wealthy get more raw dollars cut also demands decrying the fact that the wealthy pay more raw dollars as well.

and you are incorrect.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

It's not as progressive as you might imagine from that oft-cited statisic. The fact is that income taxes make up less than half of federal taxes, and the biggest reason so many people aren't paying any is that most of our wealth is concentrated in the top 5% of the population, and moreso the top 1%, and even moreso, the top 0.01%. We are slowly but surely working our way back to the good old days where the robber barons maintained vast fortunes while the working class barely scraped by.

Wealth and income are different, and taxation is directed at income. High rates for higer income earners make it far more difficult to get ahead (and that's where I am, incidentally. No family money. graduated with some but reasonably debt because of scholarships, but with a bucketload of kids and extremely expensive real estate, very hard to scale income up high enough where more than half of every extra dollar goes either to property or sales taxes).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you maintain private insurance and see private doctors in Canada if the national system isn't meeting your needs?

No. If the public system covers a particular service and you are covered for a public service, it is illegal to pay for it out of pocket or for a doctor to provide the service for cash or other payment. A US resident could pay cash for an immediate MRI if he can pull the right strings, and even animals can get quick MRIs for cash, but since the costs are covered by OHIP regular folks cannot jump the queue.

That's how non-cash rationing works. You ration with dollars. We ration by restricting supply.

In any case, the bolded part is the alpha and the omega of discussion. Specifically, you spend about half what we do per capita and about 6% less as a percentage of GDP. If we could reduce our health care spending to your level we could easily out-compete most, if not all of the BRIC countries, let alone the OECD countries. This is the number one thing dragging the US down, and sadly, the real solution to the problem isn't even on the table.

The real solution is to shift aware from "on demand" health care. Not sure if that is something you guys are prepared to accept.

in reason investment is down -- and second place isn't even close -- is that demand is down. Simply put, no one is going to invest in a new factory when their existing factories are running at 70% of capacity. By the same token, if demand is oustrips production no one is going to give up the profits that a new factory could generate on the off chance that some regulation may come to pass that would cut into profits.

Since the regulatory environment affects profits, regulations do have a very real impact on the margins (and since we are talking about 1 vs 2 vs 3 percentage points, the margin is what matters). But yes, all of it ties together. The consumer climate also is affected by the business and regulatory climates.

yroll tax cuts, and the automatic "sequester" spending cuts. Now, I'm sure you will throw the partisan BS flag, but IMO this is almost entirely a Republican created, self-inflicted wound. Obama and the Democrats have proposed that we extend the middle class tax cuts immediately, but Republicans are holding the middle class hostage in order to force the top tax cuts.

my view that was a political manouvre by the dems rather than anything serious. If they got what they wanted there was no way they would deal on the rest, while they could use their out-manouvering of the republicans to demagogue them for raising taxes contrary to their proposals in order to undermine their base.

Both your political parties need to grow up and fix thing is a collaborative and productive way. Problem is, they both seem to be pretty full of clowns.

The middle class tax cuts are a major source of consternation for businesses because their expiration will have a large, immediate effect on consumer demand. Similarly, the automatic spending cuts are a direct result of the Republicans' refusal to accept a reasonable compromise during the debt ceiling fiasco.

Again, political manouvering by both parties got you into that. If the democrats actually made any sort of good faith effort to develop a budget that showed some modicum of fiscal responsibility, it perhaps would have been easier to get the republicans to give them the blank cheque to borrow money.

Which isn't to say the republicans are blameless either with respect to your sequestration mess or your budget and entitlement crisis, but I think the democrats here are the greater of the two evils (the president and the democrats have no real plan to address the issue and have not passed a budget in years)

Generally speaking there are very good reasons for energy-related regulations, as we saw with the BP disaster. But it's really impossible to discuss at this level of generality.

And this is exactly my point. You focus on the negative of what could go wrong if you produce. That's fine, but understand the very real economic and social costs of doing that. The BP disaster cost a lot of money, but ultimately doesn't seem to be that big of a deal environmentally at the end of the day. But the limitations you have on energy production and your insane subsidies of uneconomical energy generations (biofuels, anyone) are a massive drag on your economy, which has an impact on all different sorts of other consumer and producer metrics.

And your delay of the Keystone is just ridiculous.

I don't think that anyone is interested in prolonging regulations that have little practical benefit. And while I'm sure that there are many, those on the right have a tendency to condemn all regulations without giving much thought to rationale behind them.

I agree. At the same time, those on the left have a tendancy to embrace regulations without giving much thought to how well they achieve their intended purpose or what they side-effects might be.

You lost me there.

Just an example. Environmental regulations for recycling are often fronts used by incumbent producers to restrict the supply of recycled product in the market, preventing consumers from buying used and/or preventing an independent business starting up to purchase used product, refurbish or otherwise re-ready it, and sell it in competition with the incumbent producers. This is just one of countless examples of how a well-meaning regulation (who can be against recycling, after all) are in fact used by large businesses to insulate themselves from competition, maintain higher prices and stifle innovation.

It is important to look at all of the effects of regulations, not just their intended purtpose or how well they achieve that purpose and only that purpose.

The left will generally argue that regulatory capture resuts in underregulation as opposed to over or misregulation.

But that's not all true, I don't think. It's not wrong, but it results in all of these things, each of which promote the interests of the entities that have captured the regulators over the greater good.

As one easy illustration, minimum biofuel requirements in gasoline benefit generators of biofuels and the industrial farms that produce them, while harming drivers (bad for cars and mileage), eaters (drives up food prices) and the overall economy. Those minimum requirements represent over-regulation resulting from regulatory capture by those interested in profiting off biofuels.

And from what I can see California is the worst with this, pursuing all different sorts of nonsense regulations that, if you dig a bit, are ultimately driven by a partisan interest that believes it can profit from the regulation.

Not enough, unfortunately, but I think there's a general consensus on the left that we should spend much less than we do on the military and corporate subsidies.

Military is a tough one and I don't propose to know enough about it, other than you need to maintain your qualitative advantage however you see fit (which I know doesn't say much about specifics). Corporate subsidies you are likely right.

I think that many on the left also believe that we could and should achieve huge savings by going to a full-on single payer health care system.

You can. But the "savings" to your economy will flow from a combination of things, not all of them desirable (or avoidable). You will need to ration care. You will need to reduce capital investment in medical equipment and technology. You will need to reduce payments to doctors and various other professionals in the system. You will need to invest less in the physical infrastructure of your clinics (other than things not covered by our public system like laser eye surgery and aspects of dermatology, our clinics and hospitals and medical buioldings are pretty decrepid and would probably shock you).

Not to say this isn't the right choice for you, but that would be what you are getting into.

I also believe that most on the left would support eliminating all of the Bush tax cuts, i.e., returning to Clinton-era tax rates, once the economy is on a solid footing. That, in and of itself, would stop the growth of the debt in its tracks.

Perhaps. But tax increases are extremely easy to demagogue and very difficult politically. Those ones also wouldn't be nearly enough if you had single-payer healthcare. Our combined federal/provincial take as a percentage of GDP is around 50%. You're not going to get there by raising taxes to undo those tax cuts.

Would the left support increasing those taxes on the middle class as well as a, say 7-10% VAT (sales tax)? That's most likely the real question.

You're playing both sides of the fence, there. I would say that it was specifically your stricter banking regulations that prevented you from getting hammered by the financial meltdown the way that we did.

And I think that's about right. Except for the fact that the crisis was government driven through government creation and fostering of the sub-prime market and, most crucially, the govenrment allowing for the creating of these mortgage-backed securities, which allowed lenders in the sub-prime market to shift the risk from these loans to other parties, while your government-backed lenders (fannie and freddie) absorbed much of that risk and other massive financial institutions absorbed much of the rest.

As far as energy production, I think it's largely a myth that regulations are to blame for our reliance on foreign oil.

It's also not what I'm saying. You need forein oil. Fine. But With fewer regulations you would produce more oil. Sure that would displace some foreign oil, stemming a bit of the massive outflow of payments, but it also would result in increased wealth generated within your country. Oilfield development generates a whole wack of jobs, and royalties from production generate a massive windfall for whichever govenrment of yours licenses those rights (for us it is provincial govenrments, so Alberta has by far the lowest ioncome tax rate in Canada and no provincial sales tax even though it pays for healthcare for everyone).
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

The fact is that we use a tremendous amount of oil per capita hand have relatively few proven reserves relative to large producers like Canada (US: 19.4 bbl, Canada: 175 bbl). I think that Canada will live to regret its relatively weak environmental regulations. Your problems are just less obvious due to your very low population density.

I doubt we will live to regret it, because no-one lives there (well, not no-one, but the lands being worked are virtually barren). We also have a ton of bone-headed regulatiosn and market intervention initiatives too, incidentally. Here in Ontario, we went from being one of the cheapest electricity markets in the world to being one of the most expensive in North America, driven by ridiculous govenrment regulation and a whole wack of contracts for electricity generation from "environmental" sources at well above market rates. Has absolutely crushed our productivity and is a massive tax on everyone who turns on lights. Except that unlike real taxes which can be used by the govenrtment to buy more stuff, these taxes are used to buy inefficient foreign-produced electricity generating capacity to displace natural gas (which makes no sense).

Oh, and you probably missed a great opportunity by wasting your stimulous. If you had taken that 800 billion and invested it entirely in natural gas extraction (your reserves there seem to be unmatched) and on subsidizing a shift of your infrastructure to exploit it, you could have generated massive welath over the medium term and done a whole lot to both improve your economy and shift reliance away from oil.

But instead, you spent a half billion here, a half billion there to subsidize the production of inefficient solar and wind generation capacity that ultimately will not be able to compete with Chinese-subsidized inefficient production and will generate zero long term benefits for your economy.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

it's a flat cut. the logic that demands decrying the fact that this means that the wealthy get more raw dollars cut also demands decrying the fact that the wealthy pay more raw dollars as well.

and you are incorrect.

It's a flat cut that he has to balance by removing tax deductions. You'll find no independant study that doesn't say his tax cut plan will ultimately create a situation where the middle class will have to pay MORE to support his proposal.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

No. If the public system covers a particular service and you are covered for a public service, it is illegal to pay for it out of pocket or for a doctor to provide the service for cash or other payment. A US resident could pay cash for an immediate MRI if he can pull the right strings, and even animals can get quick MRIs for cash, but since the costs are covered by OHIP regular folks cannot jump the queue.

I guess that's true in most of Canada, but not in Quebec, per your Supreme Court. I'm surprised it hasn't be challenged elsewhere as the justices split 3-3 on whether the decision would apply across the country.

That's how non-cash rationing works. You ration with dollars. We ration by restricting supply.

It's not quite as simple as that. We also ration with supply insofar as insurance companies limit what they will pay for and who they will cover. Obamacare will eliminate a lot of that.

The real solution is to shift aware from "on demand" health care. Not sure if that is something you guys are prepared to accept.

It is something we will have to accept because "on demand" health care will bankrupt us eventually. It's just a question of whether we can make an adult decision before the gun is to our heads.

my view that was a political manouvre by the dems rather than anything serious. If they got what they wanted there was no way they would deal on the rest, while they could use their out-manouvering of the republicans to demagogue them for raising taxes contrary to their proposals in order to undermine their base.

That doesn't make sense, as taxes were not raised. What the Democrats wanted was a balanced deficit reduction measure made up of something like 3:1 spending cuts to revenue hikes. They were willing to accept as much as 10:1 spending cuts to revenue hikes -- as a compromise. But Republicans were absolutely unwilling to compromise on revenue. So all we got was spending cuts, and they couldn't even agree on what should be cut. So how does that comprise any kind of out-maneuvering by Democrats? They got nothing they wanted and everything they didn't want.

Both your political parties need to grow up and fix thing is a collaborative and productive way. Problem is, they both seem to be pretty full of clowns.

They can both improve, but there is really no question that the Republicans are the ones wearing the rubber noses and big floppy shoes. They are the ones whose idea of compromise and negotiation consists of, "we get everything we want and you get nothing you want." That is just a fact.

Again, political manouvering by both parties got you into that. If the democrats actually made any sort of good faith effort to develop a budget that showed some modicum of fiscal responsibility, it perhaps would have been easier to get the republicans to give them the blank cheque to borrow money.

Again, simply not true. Democrats offered many deals that included revenue hikes and spending cuts. Those deals would have cut deficits more than the deal that Republicans eventually accepted ... because it included ZERO tax hikes.

This is the major problem with respect to our debt problem: Republicans flat-out refuse to address the revenue side, when anyone who isn't stark raving mad can see that we have to both raise more revenue and cut spending to deal with the problem.

And this is exactly my point. You focus on the negative of what could go wrong if you produce. That's fine, but understand the very real economic and social costs of doing that. The BP disaster cost a lot of money, but ultimately doesn't seem to be that big of a deal environmentally at the end of the day. But the limitations you have on energy production and your insane subsidies of uneconomical energy generations (biofuels, anyone) are a massive drag on your economy, which has an impact on all different sorts of other consumer and producer metrics.

And your delay of the Keystone is just ridiculous.

You are quite mistaken about the long-term consequences of the BP disaster. Gulf seafood production, which is a major source of income for Gulf states, is a fraction of what it was before the spill, and there is no telling when or if it will fully rebound. I've lived in the Gulf region for 20 years and this is no myth.

You are also mistaken about the drag caused by biofuel subsidies. The major subsidy was for corn ethanol, but that ended several years ago. All of the other subsidies combined are inconsequential in the overall budget picture.

The delay of the Keystone pipeline is perfectly reasonable given the possibility of environmental damage should it break under an acquifer. The truth is that we have no technology to effectively clean up bituminous oil. It is a huge problem: The Dilbit Disaster: Inside The Biggest Oil Spill You've Never Heard Of, Part 1 | InsideClimate News

Personally I think that the pipeline should not be approved until the oil companies can demonstrate the ability to clean up the mess should a spill happen.

I agree. At the same time, those on the left have a tendancy to embrace regulations without giving much thought to how well they achieve their intended purpose or what they side-effects might be.

Yes, I think the left has that tendency.

As one easy illustration, minimum biofuel requirements in gasoline benefit generators of biofuels and the industrial farms that produce them, while harming drivers (bad for cars and mileage), eaters (drives up food prices) and the overall economy. Those minimum requirements represent over-regulation resulting from regulatory capture by those interested in profiting off biofuels.

Biofuels are not bad for cars that are designed to use them, which is basically all cars made in recent years. That said, the ethanol requirement should go. The pros are outweighed by the cons. Unfortunately it will be hard to get rid of because it pumps so much money into our agricultural states.

And from what I can see California is the worst with this, pursuing all different sorts of nonsense regulations that, if you dig a bit, are ultimately driven by a partisan interest that believes it can profit from the regulation.

Disagree here. California has led the way on most important anti-pollution controls, which have eventually been adopted by the rest of the country to everyone's benefit.

Military is a tough one and I don't propose to know enough about it, other than you need to maintain your qualitative advantage however you see fit (which I know doesn't say much about specifics). Corporate subsidies you are likely right.

I don't think it's really that tough. US military spending is higher than the next 15 biggest military spending countries combined. We can't afford to be the world's policeman any more. We spend 4.7% of GDP on our military. You spend 1.4% of GDP on your military. That is a gigantic difference.

You can. But the "savings" to your economy will flow from a combination of things, not all of them desirable (or avoidable). You will need to ration care. You will need to reduce capital investment in medical equipment and technology. You will need to reduce payments to doctors and various other professionals in the system. You will need to invest less in the physical infrastructure of your clinics (other than things not covered by our public system like laser eye surgery and aspects of dermatology, our clinics and hospitals and medical buioldings are pretty decrepid and would probably shock you).

Yes, that is all true. But these are all inefficient "investments".

Perhaps. But tax increases are extremely easy to demagogue and very difficult politically. Those ones also wouldn't be nearly enough if you had single-payer healthcare. Our combined federal/provincial take as a percentage of GDP is around 50%. You're not going to get there by raising taxes to undo those tax cuts.

I believe your total tax burden as a percentage of GDP is around 30% -- not 50%. In the US it's around 25%. Not really that big a difference.

Would the left support increasing those taxes on the middle class as well as a, say 7-10% VAT (sales tax)? That's most likely the real question.

Yes, I think so, as long as the income tax was more progressive.

And I think that's about right. Except for the fact that the crisis was government driven through government creation and fostering of the sub-prime market and, most crucially, the govenrment allowing for the creating of these mortgage-backed securities, which allowed lenders in the sub-prime market to shift the risk from these loans to other parties, while your government-backed lenders (fannie and freddie) absorbed much of that risk and other massive financial institutions absorbed much of the rest.

The government did not create or foster the subprime market. In fact, the vast majority of the subprime loans were issued by private lenders who were not subject to government lending requirements. The subprime loans that were issued by regulated banks were of much higher quality, which suggests that the problem would have been worse rather than better without the them (as their customers would have gone to the private market and received worse terms). You are right that the government is at fault for not regulating mortgage-backed securities and other derivatives. Again -- that is a problem of UNDER-regulation. When the financial markets are left their own devices the inevitably implode.

It's also not what I'm saying. You need forein oil. Fine. But With fewer regulations you would produce more oil. Sure that would displace some foreign oil, stemming a bit of the massive outflow of payments, but it also would result in increased wealth generated within your country. Oilfield development generates a whole wack of jobs, and royalties from production generate a massive windfall for whichever govenrment of yours licenses those rights (for us it is provincial govenrments, so Alberta has by far the lowest ioncome tax rate in Canada and no provincial sales tax even though it pays for healthcare for everyone).

We simply don't have that much oil that isn't being exploited already.
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

It's a flat cut that he has to balance by removing tax deductions. You'll find no independant study that doesn't say his tax cut plan will ultimately create a situation where the middle class will have to pay MORE to support his proposal.

except that the vast majority of deductions are used by higher income earners. where's your raw-dollar concern for them losing more under Romney's Plan than the middle class?
 
Re: Republican Platform Won’t Protect Mortgage Tax Deduction

:lamo

Incredible. He has actually campaigned on extending the middle class tax cuts, not once but twice, and has called on Republicans to pass them many times, but you can obviously read his mind and have determined that the words coming out of his mouth are somehow imaginary or don't mean what they obviously say!

Meanwhile, back in reality, Romney is proposing massive tax cuts that will primarily benefit the rich, and Republicans in general are willing to crash the economy in order to preserve tax cuts for the rich.

you do realize that Obama wants to end all the bush tax cuts right?
 
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