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Romney gives $100 mil TAX FREE to his kids [W:237]

Masada said:
Free market capitalism allows for people to become extremely rich. Including corporations. But you seem to oppose those things. Free market capitalism suggests a more and more progressive tax system? lol....which college did you study economics at?

What's your solution then? Tax the rich at what percentage? And what is your plan for the additional revenues? Unless you directly redistribute those revenues to the middle class, how is it helping them at all?
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Remove subsidies, remove handouts to corporations and banks, remove improper regulation aimed at local and small business, install proper regulation on the system in general. There's lots to do to remove favoritism of Oligarchy from government, but until we do we will not get back to the free market.
 
Born Free said:
This discussion is about Federal Income taxes, 50% of Americans don't pay a dime in federal income taxes. So that leaves all the rich bastards who pay it all. Yet you say the rich have all the loopholes so they don't have to pay any federal income taxes. So who pays? If you want to know try the top income earners that have all those loopholes.
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Not a lot of people pay, the Middle class get's a bunch, the not too rich portion of the upper class pays a ton. Actually, they get hammered pretty damned hard. There's a reason we're broke.
 
274ina said:
But but but, as long as its a law its ok right?

slavery, and rape and murder of them was the law and it was ok........
the poor not voting was the law and it was ok........
lords killing the surf was ok because it was the law........

point is, just because its "legal" does not make is fair to all the people in a Democracy.
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We abide by the laws that are in place at the time. If you feel a law is unfair then change it. That is how a Democracy works. Until then the law stands. You may not like Florida "stand your ground" law. But as a Republic we abide by the laws that are in place.

Weather it's fair or not has not meaning, it's rather if it's in accordance with the law or not.
 
Masada said:
And Obama should come out and PROVE that he enlisted into Columbia University as an American citizen, and not a foreign exchange student. The day he does that, is the day I'll be calling on Romney to release some more tax returns......

That's "fair". You liberals wanna play this fairness game? let's play it. Obama to release Columbia records, Romney to release tax returns.....game on....
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I actually have no problem with requiring disclosure of all of this stuff. Seriously...if you are going to run for the highest office in the land, the American people should have as much information as possible. But we are talking apples and oranges here. There is decades of precedence of Candidates disclosing tax information. There is no such precedence for college records. However, I would not be opposed to such a request if it applies to all.
 
Ikari said:
Not a lot of people pay, the Middle class get's a bunch, the not too rich portion of the upper class pays a ton. Actually, they get hammered pretty damned hard. There's a reason we're broke.
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To put some teeth in this conversation why not post facts of what % each group pays. Meaning what does the top 5% pay in taxes compared to the whole, and so on.
 
Born Free said:
To put some teeth in this conversation why not post facts of what % each group pays. Meaning what does the top 5% pay in taxes compared to the whole, and so on.
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The top 10% pay the most. But that's not to say it's a linear scale. Once you breach the top 1%, percentage of tax liability decreases. If you happen to make somewhere between 500K - 1000K, you're in the most heavily taxed income bracket.
 
disneydude said:
I actually have no problem with requiring disclosure of all of this stuff. Seriously...if you are going to run for the highest office in the land, the American people should have as much information as possible. But we are talking apples and oranges here. There is decades of precedence of Candidates disclosing tax information. There is no such precedence for college records. However, I would not be opposed to such a request if it applies to all.
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First precedence means nothing, it's not a requirement to give any personal tax information, it's not a requirement in our constitution. If that turns you off then vote for the other guy.

A request is just that a "request" it's not law. Request all you want to see collage records and tax returns, sorry but request are ignored.
 
Ikari said:
Remove subsidies, remove handouts to corporations and banks, remove improper regulation aimed at local and small business, install proper regulation on the system in general. There's lots to do to remove favoritism of Oligarchy from government, but until we do we will not get back to the free market.
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lol...ironically, you didn't mention "tax the rich". Do you understand that if we do all the things you just proposed, the rich will become even richer? The cry from the left is "regulate regulate regulate"!!!! Keep everyone in check. Don't allow Exxon those massive profits. Don't allow Mitt Romney to legally shelter money in the Caymens. In essence, don't allow people to make too much money.

Yet, you will march out like a good little soldier, and vote for the most Progressive liberal I know. In a second term, you'll see more crony capitalism, and payoffs to political contributors. Government choosing more winners and losers. Hundreds of millions of our tax dollars going to subsidize a green energy industry that couldn't survive on free market principles.

Oh, you've got it all figured dont you. Just vote for Obama, because at least he'll stick it to those greedy rich bastards. Nevermind he'll turn around and spend the revenues on his cronies in the green industry, and chances are they'll go bankrupt anyway. Ya, nevermind all that. It's time for paybacks rich boy! You're gonna pay through the nose.....

I'll tell ya. That philosophy has been tried and tried in America, and each time it was tried, it led to economic disaster. As much as the left hates it, the rich DO generate economic growth. They own businesses, that when allowed to prosper, hire more people, create new goods, discover more technology, etc. Those things lead to further wealth. Wealth that is taxed.

You want to generate more revenue? Then generate more wealth, because it's what government taxes. Oooops, that's quintessential trickle down isn't it? Why yes, I believe it is......

I'm out. I'm tired of arguing with people who say they want to have economic growth, then espouse all the things that hinder it.
 
tessaesque said:
I'm not going to give the government anymore than I'm legally obligated to. They're irresponsible jerks with our money. Why should Romney have to?
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My sentiments exactly.
 
Born Free said:
First precedence means nothing, it's not a requirement to give any personal tax information, it's not a requirement in our constitution. If that turns you off then vote for the other guy.

A request is just that a "request" it's not law. Request all you want to see collage records and tax returns, sorry but request are ignored.
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Precedence means a great deal. Romeny is holding himself to a different standard than dozens of candidates before him have. There has to be a reason why.....why? If Romney had nothing to hide, why would he not do what every candidate for the last 5 decades have? Why hold himself to a different standard unless there is something in his tax records that he doesn't want the American people to see.

Born Free said:
request are ignored.
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For over 50 years, by no one other than Romney. Hmmmm....that should tell you something.
 
disneydude said:
I actually have no problem with requiring disclosure of all of this stuff. Seriously...if you are going to run for the highest office in the land, the American people should have as much information as possible. But we are talking apples and oranges here. There is decades of precedence of Candidates disclosing tax information. There is no such precedence for college records. However, I would not be opposed to such a request if it applies to all.
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Then by God we have a deal.....

As soon as Obama releases those college records, I'll be expecting Romney to disclose 5 years of tax returns......bam!
 
Masada said:
lol...ironically, you didn't mention "tax the rich". Do you understand that if we do all the things you just proposed, the rich will become even richer?
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Free market allows those to reap the benefits of their labor. Rich can get richer, but it also won't shut down economic mobility to the level it is currently trickled down to. Pun intended.

Masada said:
Yet, you will march out like a good little soldier, and vote for the most Progressive liberal I know.
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Alright little lady. You're Madam Cleo, so tell me then. Who am I voting for?
 
Masada said:
Then by God we have a deal.....

As soon as Obama releases those college records, I'll be expecting Romney to disclose 5 years of tax returns......bam!
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Apples and Oranges. There is decades of precedence for one not for the other. Personally, I hope that Romney continues to hide his tax records, and we all know that he will because he CAN'T disclose them. He just comes across as the slimy weasel that he is and portrays himself as someone that the American people cannot trust. But we should already know that....the man hasn't stuck with a position for more than a few years...how can we trust him on anything?
 
AdamT said:
Also a good example of the type of thing that one can find out by looking at tax returns....
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Again why? Is it your money? Is it the govt's money? Answer to both . . . . no.

He pays his taxes, just like everyone else.

IF you don't like the tax system, then put the blame where it belongs . . . . on your personal elected representative. You evidently have plenty of time, so write them and ask how they plan to make the tax system equitable. And while you're a it how about asking them to cut the spending and pass a budget.
 
Ikari said:
The top 10% pay the most. But that's not to say it's a linear scale. Once you breach the top 1%, percentage of tax liability decreases. If you happen to make somewhere between 500K - 1000K, you're in the most heavily taxed income bracket.
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Thank you, you just said the top 10% pay the most, thus the bottom 10% pay nothing. In fact the bottom 50% pay nothing. The fact is the rich pay the majority, a huge majority of all federal income taxes. If not for the rich paying all these taxes, we would have to gut entitlements and tax the bottom 50%. So for me I thank the rich for being there in this great nation to pay more than their fair share of the tax burden in this country. Thus providing for entitlements and allowing 50% of the people to not pay anything. I am grateful for the rich, and their contribution to this counrty.
 
Born Free said:
Thank you, you just said the top 10% pay the most, thus the bottom 10% pay nothing. In fact the bottom 50% pay nothing.
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They don't "pay nothing", they have no federal income liability. The fact is the near rich pay the the largest chunk of all our tax revenue. The really rich do not. The system is completely FUBARed. I'd restore some amount of federal tax liability to the lower classes while removing loopholes from the upper classes. Then if you push towards a true free market system, you can obtain the maximum amount of economic mobility.
 
disneydude said:
Precedence means a great deal. Romeny is holding himself to a different standard than dozens of candidates before him have. There has to be a reason why.....why? If Romney had nothing to hide, why would he not do what every candidate for the last 5 decades have? Why hold himself to a different standard unless there is something in his tax records that he doesn't want the American people to see.



For over 50 years, by no one other than Romney. Hmmmm....that should tell you something.
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Why is it so hard to understand, if you don't like it, don't vote for him. It can't get simpler than that. If it was so important for this county to force candidates to produce private tax records or any other records for that matter, then it would be law and in our constitution. So I recommend you try and change the law, that is how our democracy works.
 
Born Free said:
Why is it so hard to understand, if you don't like it, don't vote for him. It can't get simpler than that. If it was so important for this county to force candidates to produce private tax records or any other records for that matter, then it would be law and in our constitution. So I recommend you try and change the law, that is how our democracy works.
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I'll leave it up to the American people to decide whether they can trust Romney and are willing to take his "word".
 
Ikari said:
They don't "pay nothing", they have no federal income liability. The fact is the near rich pay the the largest chunk of all our tax revenue. The really rich do not. The system is completely FUBARed. I'd restore some amount of federal tax liability to the lower classes while removing loopholes from the upper classes. Then if you push towards a true free market system, you can obtain the maximum amount of economic mobility.
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Get your chart out, tell me what the top 1% (the really rich) of earners pay, compared to the whole. This will be interesting, as you say the really rich do not pay anything. The really rich is the top 1%.
 
i don't really have a problem with parents sharing money with their kids tax free.

i still support a return to the income tax rates of the 90s, though. i think it's absolutely ridiculous that those who earn their income from investments are taxed at a lower rate than a poor person who wins the lottery after investing in a ticket. if a very wealthy person pays a 39 percent marginal rate, they should be able to transfer it to their children with no tax.
 
Born Free said:
Get your chart out, tell me what the top 1% (the really rich) of earners pay, compared to the whole. This will be interesting, as you say the really rich do not pay anything. The really rich is the top 1%.
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The top 1% averages just under 2 mil a year in income. It's above that for the really rich, and those guys pay a lower marginal tax rate.
 
disneydude said:
Just because you CAN...doesn't always mean that you SHOULD.
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Yes, it does.

The only thing this shows is that Congress has failed the American people. They should be ashamed of themselves; and we should hold them accountable.

This is why when people talk about estate taxes, I've always said all those taxes can be easily avoided when one has tons of $$. If you can pay for the expert advice? The Tax Code is your friend.

Shame.On.Congress.
 
Born Free said:
Thank you, you just said the top 10% pay the most, thus the bottom 10% pay nothing. In fact the bottom 50% pay nothing. The fact is the rich pay the majority, a huge majority of all federal income taxes. If not for the rich paying all these taxes, we would have to gut entitlements and tax the bottom 50%.
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FICA taxes fund entitlements, the revenues from which fund about the same portion of federal expenditures as do income taxes. Every working American pays a net figure into the FICA rolls regardless of income bracket.
 
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